Does anyone else get the sense that something downright miraculous might be up ahead?

originally posted by: cooperton
You just referenced gotquestions.org for your theology, you have no room to talk.

Gotquestions is just fine for a quick reference to make a point.
Your statement 'you have no room to talk' is strange.

Whatever spite you have towards me you should just drop it.. I have no problem with you.

You said something in error. I corrected it. Deal with it.

Satan didn't 'speak through' Peter.
That would mean he was possessed.
He was not.
You made a theological error.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
You said something in error. I corrected it. Deal with it.

According to your interpretation. You aren't an infallible theologian, and neither is gotquestions.org

Satan was evidently speaking through Peter, which is why Jesus called Satan out and said "get behind me".

Or do you think Jesus incorrectly addressed this influence as Satan?

originally posted by: cooperton
According to your interpretation. You aren't an infallible theologian, and neither is gotquestions.org

According to ALL OF CHRISTIANITY .. not my interpretation.

Satan was evidently speaking through Peter, which is why Jesus called Satan out and said "get behind me".

Incorrect. Peter was not possessed.
And Jesus didn't 'call Satan out' of Peter.
No exorcism took place.

Or do you think Jesus incorrectly addressed this influence as Satan?

Influence and possession are two different things.
'Speaking through' is possession.
You are wrong.

Maybe you should stop pretending to be an expert in all things ... chemistry, biology, theology, history, engineering. It doesn't go well for you.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
According to ALL OF CHRISTIANITY .. not my interpretation.

putting caps lock doesn't make your statement true. Nor is gotquestions.org the final authority on these things. If Christ himself called out Satan, why would you say he was wrong?

Maybe you should stop pretending to be an expert in all things ... chemistry, biology, theology, history, engineering. It doesn't go well for you.

I asked nicely for you to let go of your spite towards me.

originally posted by: cooperton
If Christ himself called out Satan, why would you say he was wrong?

Christ did not 'call satan out of Peter'. That's what you said ... 'out of'.
All of Christianity agrees. Peter wasn't possessed.
Stating that 'satan spoke through Peter' is wrong theologically.
Peter was influenced by Satan ... not possessed.
This is basic Christian theology accepted by 2 billion Protestants and Catholics alike.

originally posted by: cooperton
I asked nicely for you to let go of your spite towards me.

knock off playing innocent victim. You have told me I"m doing the devils work and that I should go back to watching sports, etc etc. You made an error. I corrected it. That's not spite. That's just ATS conversation. Deal with it.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Christ did not 'call satan out of Peter'. That's what you said ... 'out of'.
All of Christianity agrees. Peter wasn't possessed.
Stating that 'satan spoke through Peter' is wrong theologically.
Peter was influenced by Satan ... not possessed.
This is basic Christian theology accepted by 2 billion Protestants and Catholics alike.

The Greek grammar shows Jesus was speaking "to Peter" (Πέτρῳ = noun dative) and addressing "Satan" (Σατανᾶ - noun vocative). This means Peter was the indirect object while Satan was the one being addressed.

Your assumption that all Protestants and Catholics disagree with Jesus's own words is alarming.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
knock off playing innocent victim. You have told me I"m doing the devils work and that I should go back to watching sports, etc etc.

I'm not innocent, I said crappy things that I regret... but it is true that Jesus endorsed the Old Testament, and also addressed Satan as speaking through Peter. I merely regret speaking condescendingly to you about these Biblical facts.

And since there was someone having a problem with protestant sources about the 'get thee behind me satan' statement meaning .... I'll add the Catholic teaching on this just so we can be clear that all 2 Billion Christians agree that Peter was not possessed by Satan when Jesus made his statement.

Catholic Exchange

Jesus here is referring to Peter as Satan in a metaphorical way, as an “adversary” (the literal meaning of “satan”) who, because he is thinking as a man does (we never believe suffering is God’s plan), temporarily becomes an obstacle to Jesus.

There are about three good paragraphs at that site discussing this quote. I won't post it all. Walls and walls of text are obnoxious and no one reads them anyways. Go to the link if interested.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You are putting Catholicexchange.com as an authority over the Bible itself. Jesus addresses Peter as Satan. The proof is in the grammar:

Jesus was speaking "to Peter" Πέτρῳ = noun dative
Jesus addresses "Satan" Σατανᾶ - noun vocative

"A dative noun is a noun, pronoun, or adjective that is used as the indirect object of a verb or the object of some prepositions"

"The vocative case is a grammatical case which is used for a noun that identifies a person being addressed "

the Bible verse

originally posted by: cooperton
The Greek grammar shows Jesus was speaking "to Peter" (Πέτρῳ = noun dative) and addressing "Satan" (Σατανᾶ - noun vocative). This means Peter was the indirect object while Satan was the one being addressed.

A quick lookup for you obviously ... and where did you cut and paste that from? LINK.
Jesus was speaking to Peter and not addressing anyone else.

You are out of context.
You said Satan 'spoke through' Peter.
That would be possession.
You are wrong.

Christ saying 'get thee behind me Satan' was probably metaphorical meaning that Jesus was making the point that Peter was interfering with His mission. Christ was NOT saying that Peter was literally Satan (Satan possessed).

Your assumption that all Protestants and Catholics disagree with Jesus's own words is alarming.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm stating a fact. ALL of Christianity agrees ... Peter was not possessed. And that theological fact does not 'disagree with Jesus own words'. It's taking Jesus words for what they were.

I've said it before.
You have to learn how to read the bible.
You disagree with the majority of Christianity the majority of the time.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Jesus was speaking to Peter and not addressing anyone else.

That is patently false according to Scripture. Here's why:

Jesus was speaking "to Peter" Πέτρῳ = noun dative
Jesus addresses "Satan" Σατανᾶ - noun vocative

"A dative noun is a noun, pronoun, or adjective that is used as the indirect object of a verb or the object of some prepositions"

"The vocative case is a grammatical case which is used for a noun that identifies a person being addressed"

You disagree with the majority of Christianity the majority of the time.

I'd rather agree with Christ than all of Christianity. But a quick google search would show you that not all of Christianity agrees with your perspective.

originally posted by: cooperton
You are putting Catholicexchange.com as an authority over the Bible itself.

No. I put forward the theology of both Catholics and Protestants that explain the bible verse and they both agree. Two Billion Christians agree .. Peter was not possessed. Scripture is clear ... Jesus was making a point to Peter that he was interfering with His mission. Metaphorical - it's used all through the bible. He did not say Peter was possessed nor did any exorcism take place.

You are wrong.
2 Billion Christians say so.
As I said, you need to learn how to read the bible.
You make a lot of mistakes.

originally posted by: cooperton
I'd rather agree with Christ than all of Christianity.

Christianity agrees with Christ and understands His words. You do not.

BTW - the bible was put out by 'Christianity'. Catholics. So you are claiming to understand a Christian book better than the actual Christians who put it together and studied it for two thousand years. Pffft.

But a quick google search would show you that not all of Christianity agrees with your perspective.

Oh, I'm sure you can find some stand alone people who say otherwise, but the vast majority of the 2 billion christians agree, Peter was not possessed. Satan did not 'speak through' Peter.

ETA - It's not 'my perspective'. It's basic Christian teaching for both Catholics and Protestants.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
No. I put forward the theology of both Catholics and Protestants that explain the bible verse and they both agree. Two Billion Christians agree .. Peter was not possessed.

Are you incapable of speaking truth? What an absurd statement to think that all Protestants and Catholics agree with your opinion. Here is a quote from a Catholic priest on the matter:

" This was when Satan really came in to exploit Peter’s strength, his enthusiasm, his influence and his trustworthiness — those very qualities that Jesus saw, the qualities that had caused him to give Peter the leadership of the Church. Satan entered Peter and pushed him to go in defense of Jesus. The gospel says that Peter took Jesus aside and began to rebuke him (a sign of his privileged connection to Jesus): “God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you” (Matt. 16:22-23). But Jesus knew at that point that it wasn’t really Peter talking, but it was Satan speaking through him. And Jesus rebuked him, “Get behind me, Satan.” Jesus recognized the voice of Satan in Peter’s words because Jesus was familiar with such cunning and deceptive words — he had heard similar ones during his three temptations. "

Father Jacob Dakanska

originally posted by: cooperton
Are you incapable of speaking truth?

That would be you.

What an absurd statement to think that all Protestants and Catholics agree with your opinion.

It's not my opinion. It's basic theology. Protestants and Catholics agree .. Peter was not possessed.

Here is a quote from a Catholic priest on the matter:

And according to his church, he got it wrong.
INFLUENCED. Not possessed.

This thread is wildly off topic.

The topic was supposed to be - Does Anyone Else Get the Sense Something Miraculous might be ahead?

I answered NO.

Any discussion on Peter and scripture quotes should probably get a thread of it's own in the religion forum.

I don't feel like getting my posts removed and if this line of discussion continues they could be.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
And according to his church, he got it wrong.

Your source is written by a Catholic layman, not a priest. My source that says "Satan entered Peter" was from a Catholic priest. This matter is also not in the catechism, so yet again you speak falsely when you say "according to the church".

If you weren't obsessed with trying to prove me wrong, even if it means twisting scripture, this sort of dilemma wouldn't happen to you.

originally posted by: [post=27303889]cooperton[/post
If you weren't obsessed with trying to prove me wrong,

Knock it off and get over yourself.
You aren't even on my radar. Completely insignificant.
A gnat really. Nothing more.

even if it means twisting scripture,

I twisted nothing.
I stated the theological teaching for both Protestant and Catholic alike.
They disagree with you.

this sort of dilemma wouldn't happen to you.

My stating the truth isn't a 'dilemma'.
Loaded words and disingenuous language.
Oh so 'Christian' ...

This matter is also not in the catechism, so yet again you speak falsely when you say "according to the church

Every priest who has addressed this at every mass I have ever been to in my entire life has said 'influenced' and 'metaphorical' ... not 'possessed'. Every priest who speaks on this says 'influenced' and not 'possessed'.

The key is reading it in full context. Jesus didn't end with 'get thee behind me satan'. He continued with “You are thinking not as God does,” he explained, “but as human beings do.” He was clearly speaking to Peter because if He were speaking to Satan He wouldn't have said that.

You don't know how to read the bible.

As I said .. discussion on Peter and scripture is off topic and needs to be moved to the religion forum. I do not want my posts removed.

ON TOPIC - Does anyone else get the sense that something downright miraculous might be up ahead? The answer is no, because God doesn't usually work in that way.

Catholic Herald

originally posted by: FlyersFan
I twisted nothing.
I stated the theological teaching for both Protestant and Catholic alike.
They disagree with you.

You're doubling down on your falsehood. Here again is the quote from the Catholic priest:

"Satan entered Peter and pushed him to go in defense of Jesus. The gospel says that Peter took Jesus aside and began to rebuke him: “God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you”. But Jesus knew at that point that it wasn’t really Peter talking, but it was Satan speaking through him. And Jesus rebuked him, “Get behind me, Satan.” Jesus recognized the voice of Satan in Peter’s words because Jesus was familiar with such cunning and deceptive words"

Father Jacob Dankasa

This of course agrees with the grammatical tenses given in the verse itself that show Jesus was indeed addressing Satan. Given these facts, can you admit you were wrong? Are you capable of admitting you are wrong? Perhaps you admitting you are wrong is part of the miracle the OP is referring to.

You aren't even on my radar. Completely insignificant.
A gnat really. Nothing more.

How often do gnats corner you in a Theological debate and then render you into a blind stupor? I tried multiple times to offer you peace with no hard feelings but you kept doubling down on your wrathful ignorance.

originally posted by: cooperton
How often do gnats corner you in a Theological debate and then render you into a blind stupor?

You are delusional as well as not so good with reading the bible.
The priest is stating something that goes against what his church teaches.

Learn how to read the bible.

Jesus didn't end with 'get thee behind me satan'. He continued with “You are thinking not as God does,” he explained, “but as human beings do.” He was clearly speaking to Peter because if He were speaking to Satan He wouldn't have said that.

Pretty lame, cooperton.
You don't know better than 2 billion Christians and 2,000 years of theological study.
Peter was influenced. Not possessed. Two different things.
Hang it up. Take a bible study course or two. You need it.

originally posted by: cooperton
I tried multiple times to offer you peace with no hard feelings but you kept doubling down on your wrathful ignorance.

Correcting your unending errors is not 'wrathful ignorance'. It's just correcting errors. Deal with it.

a reply to: FlyersFan

There's a few, i tend to go to Britannica first for more basic info and only wiki if I really have to, just for data. There's tons of data about the use of 'Gods' name and how Yahweh was eventually to became God.

www.britannica.com...

thecontentauthority.com...

yrm.org...

www.theonenessofgod.org...


Edit to add, I'm not Jewish. I just find how these kinds of myths are created very interesting.