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originally posted by: Kennyb75
a reply to: Kurokage
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It's even more fun when you are completely clueless about anything at all .. it's so exciting.
The act of pleasing by artful commendation; adulation; false, insincere, or excessive praise. It is usually done to gratify the self-love or vanity of the one flattered and is therefore damaging to him. Its motive is to gain favor or material benefits from another, to create a feeling of obligation toward the flatterer or to bring glory to him. Often it is designed to lead the other person into a trap. (Pr 29:5) The use of flattery is not evidence of the wisdom from above; it is of this world, being characterized by selfishness, the making of partial distinctions, and hypocrisy. (Jas 3:17) Insincerity, lying, adulating or glorifying men, and playing on the vanity of others are all displeasing to God.—2Co 1:12; Ga 1:10; Eph 4:25; Col 3:9; Re 21:8.
A contrast of the Christian course with that of flattery is found in the apostle’s words at 1 Thessalonians 2:3-6: “For the exhortation we give does not arise from error or from uncleanness or with deceit, but, just as we have been proved by God as fit to be entrusted with the good news, so we speak, as pleasing, not men, but God, who makes proof of our hearts. In fact, at no time have we turned up either with flattering speech, (just as you know) or with a false front for covetousness, God is witness! Neither have we been seeking glory from men, no, either from you or from others, though we could be an expensive burden as apostles of Christ.”
While the use of flattery may appear to be the gainful course, the Bible points out that “he that is reproving a man will afterward find more favor than he will that is flattering with his tongue.” (Pr 28:23) When a person employs flattery to gain advantage over another person, it is the opposite of love. A hater may resort to flattery but will eventually have his deceptiveness roll back on him like a stone.—Pr 26:24-28.
Flattery employs smooth talk in order to beguile its victim. The expressions “flattery,” “smooth tongue (lip, or words)” (Ps 5:9; 12:2, 3; Da 11:32), “smoothness” (Pr 7:21; Da 11:34, ftn), and “double-faced” (Eze 12:24, ftn) are translations of the Hebrew root word cha·laqʹ or related words. In every Bible instance cited, the motive of the smooth talker is bad.
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originally posted by: whereislogic
originally posted by: Kennyb75
a reply to: Kurokage
...
It's even more fun when you are completely clueless about anything at all .. it's so exciting.
Just a heads-up, he's not clueless, the person you're talking to knows exactly how to play you and which buttons to push to prevent you from learning anything important about yourself or the world around you.
It would be much healthier for you not to read his or their* comments at all. Best converse with those who both respect and love you. And who are trying to help you (and others) gain insight, understanding and true enlightenment (in contrast to the counterfeit versions of those things). Of course, trying to prevent that from happening is also one of the goals of the game that is being played on you (your whole life).
*: he's got partners here on ATS and elsewhere in the world, some of those can seduce you with flattery and beguiling speech (smooth talk), which will be easier for them to do once he has set you up for that.
Flattery (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1)
The act of pleasing by artful commendation; adulation; false, insincere, or excessive praise. It is usually done to gratify the self-love or vanity of the one flattered and is therefore damaging to him. Its motive is to gain favor or material benefits from another, to create a feeling of obligation toward the flatterer or to bring glory to him. Often it is designed to lead the other person into a trap. (Pr 29:5) The use of flattery is not evidence of the wisdom from above; it is of this world, being characterized by selfishness, the making of partial distinctions, and hypocrisy. (Jas 3:17) Insincerity, lying, adulating or glorifying men, and playing on the vanity of others are all displeasing to God.—2Co 1:12; Ga 1:10; Eph 4:25; Col 3:9; Re 21:8.
A contrast of the Christian course with that of flattery is found in the apostle’s words at 1 Thessalonians 2:3-6: “For the exhortation we give does not arise from error or from uncleanness or with deceit, but, just as we have been proved by God as fit to be entrusted with the good news, so we speak, as pleasing, not men, but God, who makes proof of our hearts. In fact, at no time have we turned up either with flattering speech, (just as you know) or with a false front for covetousness, God is witness! Neither have we been seeking glory from men, no, either from you or from others, though we could be an expensive burden as apostles of Christ.”
While the use of flattery may appear to be the gainful course, the Bible points out that “he that is reproving a man will afterward find more favor than he will that is flattering with his tongue.” (Pr 28:23) When a person employs flattery to gain advantage over another person, it is the opposite of love. A hater may resort to flattery but will eventually have his deceptiveness roll back on him like a stone.—Pr 26:24-28.
Flattery employs smooth talk in order to beguile its victim. The expressions “flattery,” “smooth tongue (lip, or words)” (Ps 5:9; 12:2, 3; Da 11:32), “smoothness” (Pr 7:21; Da 11:34, ftn), and “double-faced” (Eze 12:24, ftn) are translations of the Hebrew root word cha·laqʹ or related words. In every Bible instance cited, the motive of the smooth talker is bad.
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2 Corinthians 11:12-15
12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
originally posted by: Kurokage
There's still no proof of the Jesus you're talking
As a person who believes in God and who has accepted the Jesus narrative I'll say it clearly so that there is no mistake ...
The proof of Christ is the gospels and new testament scripture. The proof of Christ is personal experience. The proof of Christ are the miracles that are investigated and authenticated. There is archaeological and historical proof that some of the places and people mentioned in the gospels existed and that certain events happened (like a solar eclipse at the time period of Christs death, the census, etc). This is enough for many and those people choose to believe it. For others it's not. All things considered, it's understandable that people choose not to believe it. There is a lot of deception in the world and I understand being careful.
As far as I'm concerned, trying to come up with more proof is just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I understand people get excited about faith but it just ends up looking desperate when things are invented like 'the calendar proves Christ existed'.
So that's the proof. Enough for some ... not enough for others.
Hockey hun. (I"m a girl, I can call you hun)
originally posted by: cooperton
Secondary sources are still considered evidence, just not as strong as primary sources. So yes, it is evidence.
originally posted by: Kurokage
I agree with you to a point.
If someone has faith, who am I to try to disprove their personal belief.
What I don't except is how some members come here with a holier than thou' attitude yet the instant you disagree with them they fall very short of their godily 'mask'. They push what I see as a mostly fiction book based on Jewish tales and a story written a few hundred years after the supposed event and try to claim it as historical fact, all the while trying to say statistics and data for known science is false and lies.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
Primary sources are first hand eyewitness accounts. Secondary sources just talk about the primary source and rehash it. The only thing secondary sources are evidence of is that the primary source exists. So no ... your secondary sources are not evidence of Christ existing. They are just evidence of the gospels existing.
Hang it up.
originally posted by: RustEShackelFord
So every 3 to 6 months we get a "Can you feel it?" type garbage thread like this. Did anything ever come of the other 200 or so similar threads or is this another chance for yall to blow empty platitudes at each other some more?
Definition: The impelling force that influences human society made up of those who are not servants of Jehovah God, causing such people to say and do things according to a characteristic pattern. Although people act on individual preferences, those who manifest the spirit of the world give evidence of certain basic attitudes, ways of doing things, and aims in life that are common to the present system of things of which Satan is ruler and god.
Why is being tainted by the spirit of the world a matter of serious concern?
1 John 5:19: “The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (Satan has fostered a spirit that dominates the thinking and activities of those of mankind who are not Jehovah’s approved servants. It is a spirit of selfishness and pride that is so pervasive that it is like the air that humans breathe. We need to exercise great care not to submit to Satan’s power by letting that spirit mold our lives.)
Rev. 12:9: ...
What are some of the characteristics of the spirit of the world against which we need to be on guard?
1 Cor. 2:12: “Now we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God, that we might know the things that have been kindly given us by God.” (If the spirit of the world takes root in a person’s thinking and desires, its fruitage is soon seen in actions that manifest that spirit. So, breaking free from the spirit of the world requires not only avoiding unchristian activities and excesses but also getting to the root of the matter by cultivating attitudes that reflect God’s spirit and genuine love for his ways. This you should keep in mind as you consider the following manifestations of the spirit of the world.)
Doing what a person wants to do, without regard for the will of God
Satan urged Eve to decide for herself what was good and what was bad. (Gen. 3:3-5; in contrast see Proverbs 3:5, 6.) Many who follow Eve’s course do not know what God’s will for mankind is, nor are they interested in finding out. They just “do their own thing,” as they say. ...
Reacting to situations on the basis of pride [whereislogic: a favorite button to push]
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Manifesting a rebellious attitude toward authority
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Just a heads-up, he's not clueless, the person you're talking to knows exactly how to play you and which buttons to push to prevent you from learning anything important about yourself or the world around you.
It would be much healthier for you not to read his or their* comments at all. Best converse with those who both respect and love you. And who are trying to help you (and others) gain insight, understanding and true enlightenment (in contrast to the counterfeit versions of those things). Of course, trying to prevent that from happening is also one of the goals of the game that is being played on you (your whole life).
*: he's got partners here on ATS and elsewhere in the world, some of those can seduce you with flattery and beguiling speech (smooth talk), which will be easier for them to do once he has set you up for that.
originally posted by: Kurokage
What I don't except is how some members come here with a holier than thou' attitude yet the instant you disagree with them they fall very short of their godily 'mask'....
originally posted by: cooperton
If you look at flyersfans posts, they are actually exhibiting the 'holier-than-thou' saying i don't know how to read the Bible.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
Yes if it is evidence of the primary source, then it is evidence for the whole.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
You don't. That's not me being holy .... that's me stating that you are theologically incorrect by most Christian standards and that you don't know how to read the bible. The fact that you try to say the Book of Enoch, which is pseudopigrapha and condemned, is historical when in fact it contradicts the bible, means that you are incorrect by all Christian standards.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
No. Primary sources are eyewitness evidence and considered first hand. Secondary sources only confirm that the primary source exists. It does not confirm the validity of the primary source or it's contents.
originally posted by: cooperton
And yes, if it confirms that the firsthand account exists, then it further corroborates the historicity of Jesus.
originally posted by: FlyersFan
No. Secondary sources confirm that primary sources exist. They do not confirm what is in the primary sources. The ONLY primary source of information about Jesus is the New Testament, the gospels. That's it.
originally posted by: Kurokage
Don't kid yourself, you're not here defending historical fact. You're pushing a known book of tall tales as historic, you only have to read your rinse and repeat posts on the 'Noah' thread to see that.
originally posted by: silentbunker
a reply to: FlyInTheOintment
Don't we all need some kind of spiritual delivery in our lives?
In a quotation appearing in Treasury of the Christian Faith, S. J. Corey says of the Hindu nationalist leader Mahatma Gandhi: “He was in Ceylon in the fall of 1927 and spoke at the Y.M.C.A. in Colombo in these words, ‘If I had to face only the Sermon on the Mount and my own interpretation of it, I should not hesitate to say, “O, yes, I am a Christian.’” He then added: ‘You of the West take Jesus apologetically at this point, while I take him seriously and literally.’” Again referring to Gandhi, the same volume says, in a statement by Frank E. Eden: “Gandhi and Lord Irwin, former Viceroy to India, were friends. On their return from the Round Table Conference at London, Lord Irwin paid a visit to the Mahatma in his ashram. During the conversation Lord Irwin put this question to his host: ‘Mahatma, as man to man, tell me what you consider to be the solution to the problems of your country and mine.’ Taking up a little book from the nearby lampstand, Gandhi opened it to the fifth chapter of Matthew and replied, ‘When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings laid down by Christ in this Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved the problems not only of our countries but those of the whole world.’ That from a Hindu!”
WHEN birds wake up in the morning, they often chirp for a while and then fly off in search of food. In the evening, they return to their roosts, chirp a little more, and go to sleep. In certain seasons they mate, lay eggs, and raise their young. Other animals follow a similarly predictable pattern.
We humans are different. True, we eat, sleep, and reproduce, but most of us are not content with just those things. We want to know why we are here. We seek meaning in our lives. We also desire a hope for the future. These deeper needs point to a quality that is unique to humankind—spirituality, or the need and capacity for spiritual things.
Made in God’s Image
The Bible explains the reason for the spiritual side of man’s nature, saying: “God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.” (Genesis 1:27) Our being formed “in God’s image” means that even though we have been tarnished by sin and imperfection, we have the ability to mirror certain qualities of God. (Romans 5:12) For example, we can be creative. We also have a measure of wisdom, a sense of justice, and the ability to show self-sacrificing love for one another. Furthermore, we can reflect on the past and plan for the future.—Proverbs 4:7; Ecclesiastes 3:1, 11; Micah 6:8; John 13:34; 1 John 4:8.
Our spiritual capacity is most clearly demonstrated in our innate desire to worship God. Unless we properly satisfy the need to be in touch with our Creator, we cannot find true and lasting happiness. “Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need,” Jesus said. (Matthew 5:3) We must be careful, however, to satisfy that need with spiritual truth—facts about God, his standards, and his purpose for mankind. Where can we find spiritual truth? In the Bible.
“Your Word Is Truth”
The apostle Paul wrote: “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight.” (2 Timothy 3:16) Paul’s words harmonize with those of Jesus, who said in prayer to God: “Your word is truth.” Today, we know that Word as the Holy Bible, and we are wise to check that our beliefs and standards measure up to it.—John 17:17.
By comparing our beliefs with God’s Word, we imitate the people of ancient Beroea, who made sure that Paul’s teachings harmonized with the Scriptures. Rather than criticize the Beroeans, Luke commended them for their attitude. They “received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind,” he wrote, “carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.” (Acts 17:11) In view of the contradictory religious and moral teachings that abound today, it is important that we imitate the example of the noble-minded Beroeans.
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Some Prefer to Have Their “Ears Tickled”
... —2 Timothy 4:3, 4.
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The Kingdom Hope
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Will You Listen to the Kingdom Message?
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IS YOUR SPIRITUAL NEED BEING SATISFIED?
Are you satisfied with the spiritual food you are receiving? We invite you to read the following questions and check those you can answer correctly.
□ Who is God, and what is his name?
□ Who is Jesus Christ? Why did he have to die? How can his death benefit you?
□ Is there a Devil? If so, where did he come from?
□ What happens to us when we die?
□ What is God’s purpose for the earth and for mankind?
□ What is the Kingdom of God?
□ What are God’s standards of morality?
□ In the family, what are the God-assigned roles of the husband and of the wife? What are some Bible principles that promote family happiness?
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originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Kurokage
So tell me how exactly have you been forced to accept religious doctrine?
Must have been pretty tough to disturb somone so though and settled in his own believes...
I've seen atheist getting cold feet and doubts the closer the only inevitable truth was coming.
It's not uncommon for life long atheists to request a priest before they die...
You can try and hide behind science from the unknown but it has always had a strong pull on the human psyche, mainly evoking fear and curiosity.