Saudi Arabia warns Israel of 'very serious repercussions' if ground invasion of Rafah proceeds

a reply to: Ohanka

Penalizing the industrial nations with raised oil prices is a distinct possibility.

Honestly, Saudi has nothing to say about this. They weren't involved enough with the P's to prevent the October attacks; worrying about the consequences now is closing the barn door long after the horses have run away.

Cheers

originally posted by: bigyin
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

The rape and beheadings claims by israhell have been debunked. Just genocidal propaganda

Not really..

Nova Festival rapes
Main article: Re'im music festival massacre
Another statement was taken from a woman who witnessed the Nova festival attack from her hiding place on October 7.[53][55][56] She said, "They bent someone over and I understood he was raping her, and then he passed her on to someone else. [...] I remember seeing another person raping her, and while he was still inside her he shot her in the head."[53][57] A survivor told to a Knesset panel her testimony recounting she saw naked girls, sliced bodies and violated girls whose pelvises were broken due to the extent of the abuse.[32]

Another survivor recounted to The Times, "They had caught a young woman near a car and she was fighting back, not allowing them to strip her. They threw her to the ground and one of the terrorists took a shovel and beheaded her and her head rolled along the ground. I see that head too".[33] The BBC reported being shown a video by Israeli police in which a woman said that militants had cut off a woman's breast and played with it.[7] A male witness told the BBC that he had heard what he was sure were the screams of women being raped and that dead women were raped as well.[7] The BBC also reported that some of the forensic team investigating bodies "talk in terms of "dozens" of victims but quickly caution that evidence is still being gathered".[33]

A video of the massacre shot by a survivor searching for her friends verified by The New York Times showed a woman lying on her back, dress torn, legs spread and vagina exposed while her face was burned and her right hand covering her eyes. She was later identified as Gal Abdush, mother of two from central Israel.[3][58] One witness told the paper that 100 Hamas militiants congregated along a road passing weapons and badly wounded women to each other.[3][58] The witness said she saw at least 5 women raped in front of her while she hid.[3][58] Another witness recounted that he saw men in civilian clothes drag a woman out of a van in route 232 nearby, he said they gathered about her and penetrated her while she screamed and then one of the men killed her with a knife.[3][58]

en.m.wikipedia.org...#:~:text=During%20the%207%20October%202023,and%20mut ilated%20by%20Hamas%20militants.

a reply to: FlyersFan

You keep claiming Israel is committing genocide. It isn't genocide.

This military action is the culmination of the Genocide they have been committing for a long time , you will not see it because you don't want to see it but others can see it plain as day.

Scholars of genocide have distinguished it as a crime different from other forms
of war, killing, violence, discrimination, and repression. “Genocidal action aims not just
to contain, control, or subordinate a population, but to shatter and break up its social
existence. Thus genocide is defined, not by a particular form of violence, but by general
and pervasive violence.”8
They note that settler colonial regimes are structurally prone to
genocide, and may indulge in “genocidal moments” when they become frustrated by the
resistance of a colonized or occupied people.9
The term “genocide” has been used to describe the mass murder of Armenians by
the Ottomans, Stalin’s expulsion of Chechens, Ingush Tartars, and Jews from the
U.S.S.R., the removal of Jews and Hungarians from Romania, and Italy’s efforts to clear
Slovenes and Croats from the Dalmatian coast.10 There have been successful prosecutions
of individuals for genocide arising out of efforts to destroy the Tutsi population in
Rwanda in 199411 and Srebrenica in Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1995.12
Numerous prominent human rights authorities, advocates, and scholars have
claimed that Israel’s policies and actions with respect to the Palestinian people have
amounted to a form of genocide

The late human rights lawyer and Center for Constitutional Rights Board
President Michael Ratner also charged Israel with committing “incremental genocide”
against the Palestinian people: “There’s no doubt again here this is ‘incremental
genocide,’ as Ilan Pappé says. It’s been going on for a long time, the killings, the
incredibly awful conditions of life, the expulsions that have gone on from Lydda in 1947
and ‘48, when 700 or more villages in Palestine were destroyed, and in the expulsions
that continued from that time until today. It’s correct and important to label it for what it
is.”22 He argued further, “I want to emphasize today [that] these killings are part of a
broader set of inhuman acts by Israel constituting international crimes, carried out by
Israel over many years, going back to at least 1947 and 1948. They include crimes that
aren’t talked about that much in the media or the press, the crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity, and apartheid. These crimes can be prosecuted in the International Criminal Court and are defined there.”
ccrjustice.org...

Some of us learn from history others try to repeat it.

a reply to: gortex

Again. Citizens in Gaza are dying because Hamas refuses to evacuate or shelter their civilians, and integrates themselves into the civilian population to cower behind human shields.

Again. Funny you aren’t concerned with the 70 killed on Oct 13 trying to leave Gaza when all evidence started to point to Palestinian extremists or Hamas.

You are only obsessed with anything that makes Israel look bad. You have no concern for the actual cause of this war. Hamas and its goal of wiping Jews off the face of the earth. Hamas and its attacks has made this war literally about them or us. The survival of Hamas or the survival of Israelis as a race.

a reply to: gortex

Since Hamas made this about who will literally survive, I hope Hamas is eradicated. And Hamas doesn’t seem to concerned with who they take with them.

originally posted by: gortex
This military action is the culmination of the Genocide they have been committing for a long time , .

That's garbage. If it were genocide, the Gazans would all be dead ... or at least a hell of a lot more than are dead. Israel has the firepower to do that. A few thousand have died while Israel is defending itself from Hamas and the so called 'palestinians'. That's not genocide. If Israel is attempting genocide then it's the WORST ATTEMPT AT GENOCIDE EVER. The dead in Gaza are the fault of Hamas and the so called 'palestinians' who support them. They caused their own situation.

originally posted by: Lazy88
You have no concern for the actual cause of this war. Hamas and its goal of wiping Jews off the face of the earth.

Yeah ... that's actual REAL calls for genocide and actual REAL attempts at genocide.
Yet nothing from the usual suspects about admitting that fact.
Just rhetoric about fake genocide by Israel.
Like I said ... just a few thousand dead while Israel defends itself when Israel could kill every last Gazan ... worst genocide ever!

a reply to: FlyersFan

The real issue, I suspect, is that some fear a complete defeat and humiliation of Hamas by the Israelis. If that happens, it won't mean a genocide of any kind, it will just be confirmation yet again that the Arabs tend to overestimate their military prowess. About the only Arab country that doesn't do that is Jordan.

Cheers

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

The real issue, I suspect, is that some fear a complete defeat and humiliation of Hamas by the Israelis.

Thing is I've seen "some" support Russia for their invasion of Ukraine on this site but can't think of any who have expressed support for Hamas and their actions on Oct 7th , I expect by "some" you are not referring to members here.

I think the real issue here is some are supporting Israel because they support Israel regardless of their actions since or even before Oct 7th , what is written here by us Plebs showing support for the for the innocents in this brutal conflict matters not in the scale of things it's what is written after this conflict by investigators and historians that will lay the truths bare.

Personally I look forward to those investigations.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: F2d5thCavv2




Personally I look forward to those investigations.

Really. I bet you been following the investigation into the incident on Oct 13 on Salah al-Din road that killed 70 leaving Gaza. How’s that investigation going?


How’s that investigation into the UNRWA aiding Hamas? With Hamas stealing aid to boot?

Perfidy
Human shields
See also: Use of human shields by Hamas
The Israel Defense Forces allege that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.[42][43] This allegation has received support from the UK, the US, Australia, and European Commission.[44] Al Jazeera notes, "Israel has, however, not provided concrete proof for its allegations."[45] The Israeli army further argued the militant groups' hostages were being used as human shields.[38] Human Rights Watch noted that using hostages, or any other person held in custody, as human shields is illegal.[32] On the counter side, Israeli Defense Forces have been accused of making no, or an inadequate distinction between Hamas forces and civilians.[46]

All combatants, including insurgents, are bound by the law of war. Louis René Beres has analyzed the placing of military assets amid Palestinian civilian populations, in previous anti-terror wars against Hamas, categorizing this as a clear and punishable crime under international law. The act of perfidy is described as a "grave breach" in Article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Placing military assets or personnel in civilian populated areas is forbidden by the Hague Regulations. Additionally, Protocol I of 1977, supplementing the Geneva Conventions of August 12, 1949, contains related prohibitions on perfidy. These regulations are enforced not only through the mentioned treaties but also via customary international law, as indicated by Article 38 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice. A, as underlined in Article 3, shared across the four Geneva Conventions of 1949.[12] Janina Dill, a laws of war professor at University of Oxford, stated, "Even if Hamas uses civilians as human shields, those civilians are entitled to full protection under international law unless they directly participate in the fighting".[47]

Disguising military units
Hamas militants disguise themselves as civilians, medical, or enemy units, or confuse civilians with military units by conducting military operations from civilian locations, which are perfidious violations of international law. The Rome Statute and the Geneva Conventions article 37, require distinguishing combatants from civilians, and providing for medical treatment of the wounded by designated units.[48][49][50][51][excessive citations


en.m.wikipedia.org...

What do you not get, Hamas lies. Takes no steps to protect, evacuate, shelter its citizens.

a reply to: FlyersFan

That's garbage. If it were genocide, the Gazans would all be dead

The Nazis didn't kill all of the Jews in WW2 yet that was Genocide.

Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy,in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. These acts fall into five categories:

Killing members of the group (Done)

Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group (Done)

Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part (Done)

Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group (in progress)

Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group (Sinai awaits)
www.ushmm.org...

a reply to: Lazy88

The Israel Defense Forces allege that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.

And you happily suck it all while ignoring the fact that was shown to you in a different thread by a different member that the IDF use human shields , an uncomfortable truth ?

What do you not get, Hamas lies. Takes no steps to protect, evacuate, shelter its citizens.

Just as the corrupt Netanyahu government failed to protect their citizens by ignoring warnings given to them before Oct 7th by Egypt and their own border security forces.

Of course Hamas lies but Netanyahu lies too , something I guess you choose to ignore.

There have been several credible reports that Israeli intelligence analysts warned that Hamas operatives appeared to be training for raids into Israel. The New York Times and other outlets have reported on the existence of a 40-page internal Hamas document code-named “Jericho Wall.” Purportedly obtained by Israeli intelligence, it is said to lay out detailed plans by Hamas to conduct precisely the type of assault against Israeli military installations and villages that occurred on October 7.

While warnings from Israeli analysts who reviewed the document were reportedly brushed aside by senior officials, last July a signals intelligence officer urged the chain of command to take it seriously. Noting a recent daylong training exercise by Hamas in Gaza, the analyst asserted that the training precisely mirrored the operations laid out in the document. “It is a plan designed to start a war,” she pleadedOpens in a new tab. “It’s not just a raid on a village.”

But serious questions lingered over how Hamas was able to lay siege to large sections of what Israel calls the “Gaza envelope” and whether Netanyahu had knowledge that an attack of this very nature was being planned in full view of Israel’s extensive surveillance systems and spy networks.There is also a mounting body of evidence to indicate that Israeli forces were given orders on October 7 to stop Hamas’s attacks at all costs, including the killing of Israeli civilians taken captive by Palestinian fighters. The Israeli military has indicated that it plans to conduct an “uncompromising” investigation into the intelligence failures, drawing the ire of some far-right members of Netanyahu’s government.
theintercept.com...

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: Lazy88

The Israel Defense Forces allege that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.

And you happily suck it all while ignoring the fact that was shown to you in a different thread by a different member that the IDF use human shields , an uncomfortable truth ?

you have confused me. Are you claiming it's OK for HAMAS to use human shields because Israel did in the past? Isn't the current discussion about HAMAS using Palestinians as human shields, which is killing civilians (the same one's everyone is worried about)?

You really need to look in the mirror and have a talk with the guy in there. He's a bit flucked up in his thinking.

originally posted by: gortex
The Nazis didn't kill all of the Jews in WW2 yet that was Genocide.

The Nazis INTENT was to kill all the Jews so it was genocide. The Israeli INTENT is to kill HAMAS, and any 'palestinian' deaths that happen while Israel defends itself is the fault of Hamas and the Palestinians, not Israel. So again .. no genocide by Israel. 2 1/2 million Gazans and a few thousand dead. Dead because of themselves and Hamas. That's not genocide.

originally posted by: gortex
(Done)
(Done)
(Done)

NOPE. Not even remotely true.
Already explained it to you.
But you aren't listening, so I won't bother doing it again.

a reply to: network dude

you have confused me. Are you claiming it's OK for HAMAS to use human shields because Israel did in the past?

No , I'm saying they both use Human shields but the member I was responding to ignores the fact Israel use them while pointing at Hamas , simple really don't see why you would be confused.

Isn't the current discussion about HAMAS using Palestinians as human shields

Something alleged by the IDF although the fact they use Human shields is well documented.

You really need to look in the mirror and have a talk with the guy in there. He's a bit flucked up in his thinking.

Because his thinking doesn't fall in line with a clown with green hair ?

I'm comfortable with my position on this conflict , I know right from wrong and am not tied to any side in this conflict , the slaughter of children pisses me off , regardless of their ethnicity.

originally posted by: gortex
the slaughter of children pisses me off , regardless of their ethnicity.

Then you should be really angry at Hamas and the so called 'palestinians' for causing this mess, and for not laying down their arms, for not giving up their rockets that they fire upon Israel, and for not surrendering the hostages so it can all end.

originally posted by: gortex

Because his thinking doesn't fall in line with a clown with green hair ?

I'm comfortable with my position on this conflict , I know right from wrong and am not tied to any side in this conflict , the slaughter of children pisses me off , regardless of their ethnicity.

On October 6th, was there a reason to be outraged over children being killed in a war in Gaza? If not, why?

I know why, and you do as well. Because on October 7th, HAMAS declared war on Israel. HAMAS attacked Israel. If that is incorrect, I really, really need you to show me. If it's correct, then how is making the statement that HAMAS should surrender and release their hostages not trying to accomplish that which you claim to be pissed off about? I hate innocent people being killed as well. I also know Israel won't stop until they get what they want. And they don't seem to care that folks call them names.

So what will it be, look for an end to the war, or just virtue signal and screech loudly pretending to give a rats ass about kids, while cheering for HAMAS? You may not see it, but I do.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Then you should be really angry at Hamas and the so called 'palestinians' for causing this mess,

And you should be angry at Netanyahu and his so called "chosen people" for allowing this mess.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: network dude

So what will it be, look for an end to the war, or just virtue signal and screech loudly pretending to give a rats ass about kids, while cheering for HAMAS? You may not see it, but I do.

How can I look for an end to a conflict I have no control over ? , you accuse me of virtue signalling yet you virtue signal for Israel , double standards my friend.

You see what you want to see that much has been shown.