Mother of Michigan Gunman Found Guilty of Manslaughter

a reply to: whereislogic

I think the Cartmans in this thread can give it a rest though. You're preaching to the choir. I know this thread is a bigger threat to you and your spiritual father than most (if not all) threads on ATS, but the more you comment, the more demonstrations you give of the true nature of ATS. More evidence for all the things brought up in the songs. And that includes the comment complaining about Rastafarianism, which indeed is a false religion.

So I'm a cartman, am I? This thread is a joke and not some imagined threat you seem to have created in your mind. It 'll take a bit more than a few music videos to cause a scare on ATS my deluded friend.
So we have another religious nut job who's decided they need tell ATS how they should live and act. how refreshingly cliche!!
Please post were I'm complaining about Rastafaranism?? You seem to be imagining things here.
I posted about the great Bob Marley being a Rasata because you don't seem to understand the irony, you're obviously a deluded JW who reads the St James version of bible and how Rastafarians feel about that version and also you keep posting his videos next to a child abuser.

originally posted by: Nofear51
a reply to: whereislogic

Guns protect the innocent.. wish we we’re aloud to have guns instead of waiting fo the police to arrive when called .. and as for kids learning how to use firearms that’s a good thing not bad !!

And listing a load of songs doesn’t make you correct !!

I agree guns are a great tool to protect law abiding citizens.

But with gun ownership comes responsibility. You make sure they’re secure and out of reach of kids. I also agree you should teach kids how to handle and shoot guns, under supervision. Before they even learn handling and shooting though they need to learn responsibility.

And you definitely secure them if your kid shows sign of mental illness. It’s a no brainer.

These parents were neglectful and people died. This case seems different than most as there were a lot of warning signs and neglect from the parents.

originally posted by: ADVISOR
a reply to: whereislogic

Quoting a lot of scripture and forgot the part that actually applies.

"If you don't own a sword, sell your cloak, and buy one."
Or in other words, self defense.

I do not care to get involved in any political debates here.

I just wanted to correct this. Because Jesus' telling his apostles to get a sword on the night before he died was actually to teach the exact opposite lesson than what you are saying here, i. e. "self defense". When they produced two swords he said that that was enough. And it was to teach his apostles a lesson a little later on in the night when one of them, Peter, was to brandish it and use it to protect Jesus:

"Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”-Luke 22:38.

Later on in the garden of Gethsemane where Judas lead the Sanhedrin guard to Jesus to betray him Peter took one of the swords Jesus had told them to get and sliced off the ear of one Malchus, trying to defend Jesus. Then Jesus healed the ear of Malchus, and told Peter to return the sword to its place and then made this statement:

"But look! one of those with Jesus reached out his hand and drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest, taking off his ear. Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take up the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father to supply me at this moment more than 12 legions of angels? In that case, how would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must take place this way?”-Matthew 26:51-54.

So he had them get a sword so that later on when they were trying to protect him with it he could teach them not to use swords anymore. Just the opposite from what you are trying to say Jesus had them get swords for.

a reply to: Kurokage

Scream louder in your agony. Your picture (avatar) apparently isn't clear enough for some people.




Sing it girl!

See? They're out there as well, people with good intentions instead. I just don't run into them on ATS very often, and certainly not often in my threads (especially the most threatening ones to the Devil and his human and spirit pawns and victims).

Since she mentioned "hell" (no doubt because she has still been affected by the doctrines of false religion, which includes Christendom, not really her fault, Satan's system is saturated with them and they affect everyone, thinking otherwise would be rather naive):

Some people just feel the need to point out that Bob Marley fell victim to the false religion of Rastafarianism, almost as if they're bragging about it. Of course, they will claim they brought it up for another reason, but if when they explain that reason they lace it with another blatant lie, you can tell who their spiritual father is (if the avatar wasn't clear enough yet).

John 8:42-47 (New World Translation, Study Edition; as are all my Bible quotations taken from in light of the lie I pointed to above):

Jesus said to them: “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I have not come of my own initiative, but that One sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* [Or “accept.”] my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”

a reply to: whereislogic

I made mention of this in another thread to you. But if you are unaware of what Rastafarianism is and why Bob Marley uses the name "Jah" in his songs you may want to do some investigation into the matter.

a reply to: whereislogic

Scream louder in your agony. Your picture (avatar) apparently isn't clear enough for some people.

I really think you're deluded.
And my Avatar is the Archangel Michael, I liked the pic and I messed with the colours and texture in adobe, it was the correct size back in 2006, so no screaming in agony

Maybe go and read up on things you post about (Bob Marley for example) before making an even bigger fool of yourself. This isn't an insult and is really a concern, are you taking medication, and have you missed it?

a reply to: randomuser2034
It doesn't matter, beneficial teaching is beneficial teaching. And I've explained what "Jah" is really referring to (no matter how Bob Marley uses it). Just like "his Majesty" is always referring to the King Jesus Christ, no matter how someone else may want to use it. So if someone hears that expression used by Bob Marley, all they need to do, is interpret it as referring to Jesus Christ, the King of God's Kingdom. Then, the teaching ascribed to "his Majesty" as "not make war" is 100% correct, he is after all the Prince of Peace.

Bringing us back to the closing remarks of Bob Marley here:

And yes, I interpret "We'll be forever loving Jah" , as referring to loving Jehovah (Jah from the Bible). That's what I'm hearing when I listen to that song. Who cares if someone else gets it wrong, that's their problem. I've made it clear what "Jah" is short for. My message stays the same. Not to mention all the other useful quotations from the Bible in that song and similar songs, the teaching of which stays the same no matter who spins it or sings it with accompanying false beliefs because they have been affected by false religion (which is not really their fault in the first place, it's someone else's fault, "the ruler of this world", Jn 14:31, a.k.a. "the god of this system of things", 2 Cor 4:4. "who is misleading the entire inhabited earth", Rev. 12:9, and that expression, includes everyone, no one is immune to his influence, no matter who or what they claim to be: Matt. 7:15).

Just like the lady in the video talking about "hell", which I clarified as well for those with ears to hear.

Since I already made it clear in my commentary before (you made your comment) that Rastafarianism is a false religion, I have to wonder why you did not opt to put your comment in a PM though... (not to mention that even if it was in a PM, it would still be useless pointing it out again when I already did so).

2 Timothy 2:14

Keep reminding them of these things, charging them before God* as witness, not to fight about words, a thing of no usefulness at all because it overturns those listening.

Which makes me wonder another question: Where are "those listening"? Anyone who has actually listened to all the songs in the OP willing to comment? Perhaps concerning something positive about the content of these songs and it's most important teachings from the Bible? How about this one from the song above:

"Only a fool will lean upon his own misunderstanding." Referring to Proverbs 28:26:

Whoever trusts in his own heart is stupid,

But the one who walks in wisdom will escape.

And Proverbs 3:5:

Trust in Jehovah with all your heart,

And do not rely* [Lit., “lean.”] on your own understanding.

Jeremiah 17:9

The heart is more treacherous* [Or “deceitful.”] than anything else and is desperate.* [Or possibly, “incurable.”]

Who can know it?

a reply to: whereislogic

It doesn't matter, beneficial teaching is beneficial teaching. And I've explained what "Jah" is really referring to (no matter how Bob Marley uses it). Just like "his Majesty" is always referring to the King Jesus Christ, no matter how someone else may want to use it. So if someone hears that expression used by Bob Marley, all they need to do, is interpret it as referring to Jesus Christ, the King of God's Kingdom. Then, the teaching ascribed to "his Majesty" as "not make war" is 100% correct, he is after all the Prince of Peace.

I think it does matter here, because your interpretation of Bob Marley and Rastafarianism is just plain wrong. Haile Selassie is who is being referenced.

Haile Selassie is viewed as a symbol of African pride, resistance against oppression, and the pursuit of equality and justice. His coronation in 1930, where he took on the titles “King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah,” solidified his importance in Rastafarian faith.

You seem to be making this stuff up as you go without any care to the actual meaning of some of the things you're posting???

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: randomuser2034
It doesn't matter, beneficial teaching is beneficial teaching. And I've explained what "Jah" is really referring to (no matter how Bob Marley uses it). Just like "his Majesty" is always referring to the King Jesus Christ, no matter how someone else may want to use it. So if someone hears that expression used by Bob Marley, all they need to do, is interpret it as referring to Jesus Christ, the King of God's Kingdom. Then, the teaching ascribed to "his Majesty" as "not make war" is 100% correct, he is after all the Prince of Peace.

Bringing us back to the closing remarks of Bob Marley here:

And yes, I interpret "We'll be forever loving Jah" , as referring to loving Jehovah (Jah from the Bible). Who cares if someone else gets it wrong, that's their problem. I've made it clear what "Jah" is short for. My message stays the same. Not to mention all the other useful quotations from the Bible in that song and similar songs, the teaching of which stays the same no matter who spins it or sings it with accompanying false beliefs because they have been affected by false religion.

Just like the lady in the video talking about "hell", which I clarified as well for those with ears to hear.

Ok. I understand what you are saying here. And I realize what these things are referring to as well when listening to the songs, and what they really mean, as you. I've actually witnessed with Rastafaris while living in Denver, and have had some good conversations with them. My conscience wouldn't allow me to use these songs to try and teach the truth. I will respect your viewpoint on this matter though. But as one person in this thread already knows the origins of the songs and what Bob Marley was referring to in them (the Babylon system etc. talking about the oppression of the black people by the west) better sources could be used.

Another thing to consider, always use a mild temper and deep respect when speaking to others about the truth. Oft it is the way you treat a person that they remember, and not necessarily what you say.-1 Peter 3:15. Perhaps "deep respect" would be respecting Bob Marley's religious beliefs and what he was trying to get across in his songs? And perhaps it would prevent you from denigrating a person or their beliefs?

Can you imagine Jesus telling someone "scream louder in your agony?" And even if Jesus did rebuke the religious leaders of his days, he could read the heart, and also had the authority as the son of God to do so. Something we do not have. A servant of God has authority to teach the truth from the Bible. But should always wield the truth to uplift and benefit the listener. Paul said to speak graciously seasoning your words with salt, that is, making it palpable to the listener. And remember when he was reviled he did not go on reviling in return, and when he was insulted he did not insult in return:

"Let your words always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should answer each person."-Colossians 4:6.

"When he was being insulted, he did not insult in return. When he was suffering, he did not threaten, but he entrusted himself to the One who judges righteously."-1 Peter 2:23.

Perhaps you oughta listen to how Jesus rebukes the religious leaders of his day again, whose spiritual father is the same as the one I said that to. (it was also a reference to something mentioned in the last video I used below that: "His Promise"; not to mention that the full 2 sentences, which are connected to eachother and should not be evaluated separately from eachother, was rather benign and mild in my eyes, especially in comparison with his commentary, and it was respectful to all those who deserve a warning concerning this person, those who do not recognize what that avatar stands for, or do not notice the remark of his "mood" below that, or do not care yet; the 2 sentences were not for him, and it's the demons that scream in agony when someone is spreading "beneficial teaching" in a manner that is threatening to them, someone familiar with the Bible should know this by heart, so who was I actually addressing with the 1st sentence? A human being? There, now I've said it anyway which I was trying to avoid, cause I know it will be used to discredit me: 'oh, you see demons everywhere'; 'whenever someone disagrees with you you claim they are possessed with demons', those type of slanderous accusations and spin playing on those without Bible understanding, see further in this side-note concerning the apostle that was called "Satan", who actually wasn't Satan himself, will follow. But some things are obvious when some people pick their avatars on ATS. As the rather harsh saying goes: "You've made your bed. Now lie in it." I prefer how it's described at Galatians 6:7-10: "Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a person is sowing, this he will also reap; because the one sowing with a view to his flesh will reap corruption from his flesh, but the one sowing with a view to the spirit will reap everlasting life from the spirit. So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due time we will reap if we do not tire out. So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith." Yes, I can not look into people's hearts, I can still expose demons or demonic thinking and expressing those thoughts, which are, based on mathematical odds and logic and people's interest in engaging in occult and spiritistic practices, still present on ATS in large numbers, as is demonic possession, especially when they're bragging about it in their avatars cause no one will catch on anyway, and no one is willing to take a gamble and make an educated guess based on reasonably estimated statistics, and just come out and say it; I'm also reminded of the time Jesus referred to one of his disciples as Satan, because they said something that is more inline with what Satan would have said, they were thinking too much like Satan, which disciple, apostle, was that again? It doesn't matter if he actually is Satan, or possessed by demons, it matters what they say, what they are promoting, and how they are poisoning people's minds when they do so whether or not you can refer to them as Satan, or rebuke them as such and expose the true nature of their thinking and commentary, no need to be able to look into people's hearts to recognize demonic thinking, the main reason I used the 2 sentences as such, and I wasn't even thinking about demonic possession, just thought I'd mention it now, including the statistics that would suggest they would flock to my thread, among other threads they like to visit and do their thing, or manipulate the humans they influence to do their bidding for them without these humans even knowing who they are serving or working for as they do this)

Also, Paul said: “For though I am free from all people, I have made myself the slave to all, so that I may gain as many people as possible. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. 21 To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law. 22 To the weak I became weak, in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some. 23 But I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others.” (1 Corinthians 9:19-23)

Again I would like to remind you of the option of using PM's for this kind of talk. Surely you do not want to "overturn those listening"? If any of those ever show up. It's rather disctracting from the good news that God's Kingdom with Jesus Christ as King will soon rule over a restored earth.*

“24 Do you not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Now everyone competing in a contest exercises self-control in all things. Of course, they do it to receive a crown that can perish, but we, one that does not perish. 26 Therefore, the way I am running is not aimlessly; the way I am aiming my blows is so as not to be striking the air;” (1 Corinthians 9:24-26)

*: bringing us back to:

Revelation 21:3-5 (second-to-last chapter in the Bible):

With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful* [Or “trustworthy.”] and true.”

Question for those with ears to hear, and the ability to understand: which Bob Marley song(s) in the OP is referring to the same "race" (1 Cor 9:24)?

2 Corinthians 11:1-31:

1 I wish you would put up with me in a little unreasonableness. But, in fact, you are putting up with me! . . . . 3 But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity* [Or “purity.”] that are due the Christ. 4 For as it is, if someone comes and preaches a Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a spirit other than what you received, or good news other than what you accepted, you easily put up with him. 5 For I consider that I have not proved inferior to your superfine apostles in a single thing. 6 But even if I am unskilled in speech, I certainly am not in knowledge; indeed we made it clear to you in every way and in everything.

7 Or did I commit a sin by humbling myself that you might be exalted, because I gladly declared the good news of God to you without cost? . . . 10 As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, I will not stop this boasting in the regions of A·chaʹia. 11 For what reason? Because I do not love you? God knows I do.

12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.

16 I say again: Let no one think I am unreasonable. But even if you do, then accept me as an unreasonable person, so that I too may boast a little. 17 What I now say is, not as following the Lord’s example, but as an unreasonable person would, with boastful self-confidence. 18 Since many are boasting according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 Since you are so “reasonable,” you gladly put up with the unreasonable ones. 20 In fact, you put up with whoever enslaves you, whoever devours your possessions, whoever grabs what you have, whoever exalts himself over you, and whoever strikes you in the face.

21 I say this to our dishonor, since it may seem that we have acted in weakness.

But if others act boldly—I am talking unreasonably—I too act boldly. 22 Are they Hebrews? I am one also. Are they Israelites? I am one also. Are they Abraham’s offspring? I am also. 23 Are they ministers of Christ? I reply like a madman, I am more outstandingly one: I have done more work, been imprisoned more often, suffered countless beatings, and experienced many near-deaths. . . .

28 Besides those things of an external kind, there is what rushes in on me from day to day:* [Or “the daily pressure on me.”] the anxiety for all the congregations. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is stumbled, and I am not incensed?

30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, the One who is to be praised forever, knows I am not lying. (that last one now especially true of the rather long side-note which it has become at the start of this comment, laying it all out there, all my thoughts, no matter how it shows my weakness, at least I'm being honest with everyone about what I'm thinking, even if it's long-winded and ripe for spin, slander, ridicule and creating strife. I am not afraid of men, trembling at men is what lays a snare. You're all allowed to know my thoughts, even if you think I'm being unreasonable. So go ahead, tell me I'm doing wrong by being honest about my thoughts, and what impressions I get when reading such comments as the ones I was describing there as mental and demonic poison.)

a reply to: whereislogic
Edit - I will use PM here.

I went through the hunter's safety program with the boy when he was in school. It was great, they covered firearms including muzzle-loading rifles, bows and crossbows, and other safety considerations with hunting weapons in general. It's all about hunting here in Michigan and when most folks go to the shooting range with family, they are practicing accuracy and fine-tuning their scope or sights for when they go out into the field to hunt. Not saying people don't own pistols for self-defense, but that is a whole other subject and not as popular as hunting.

On many weekends, when the citiots come north, I do hear people unloading 30-round rifle clips, along with large-scale explosions and occasionally some fully auto reports. These people have a lot of money and a distorted idea of what firearms are and how you should use them. IMO these are weekend Rambos living their survival fantasy by playing army or cops and robbers on a couple of acres they use as their bug-out camp. Blowing off steam is good I guess, it's not harming anyone but IMO a waste of ammo that is just heating up the barrel of some rifles.

Proselytizing with wall after wall of videos- Nothing like religious zealotry to solve all the worlds' problems!

you definitely secure them if your kid shows sign of mental illness

If you have children of any age in the house, you ensure that there is NO WAY they can access firearms. The majority of parents live in denial that their darling child might have dserious issues.
Even if you don't have kids, a responsible person takes the extra steps required to keep their weapons secure.

I should probably post fortyeleven Youtube music videos that everybody will ignore anyway at this point, but I'll spare you the redundancy.

a reply to: whereislogic

Do you really think that criminals give a hoot about any gun-laws? No, off course not. They either steal their weapons, buy them on the black market/dark web or find any means necessary to get a gun, and none of these means have to be legal as they don't care about laws.
These laws only affect law-abiding ciitizens, or the good guys, whom will stop the mass shooter in it's tracks:



Just one example a quick search on youtube revealed.
How many more would have died if this young hero wasn't armed?
You think he could have stopped him by talking to him, or no let's just wait for the social workers (after defunded police)

a reply to: whereislogic

And before someone feels inclined to do so...

Proverbs 29:11

11 A stupid person gives vent to all his feelings,* [Lit., “spirit.”]

But the wise one calmly keeps them in check.

I was talking about "weakness" after all. I've also never claimed on ATS that I was "wise". That's the area I have to work on the hardest. Next to that, they were more thoughts than feelings/emotions. Perhaps it may do some people some good, perhaps it may do harm for others, but as long as I remain honest, I think I'm doing the right thing (and it's up to people themselves, and Jehovah, how that comment will affect them; ATS is already not a healthy place to be, I can't do more damage than has already been done to those frequenting this website; and if it puts them off the message in the OP, well, who is here that is receptive to it? Or was before that comment?). It is rarely that I lay out that many thoughts in one comment. And as I mentioned before, I expected to be lured into doing this. Cause just like everyone else, I am not immune to the influence of the ruler of this world, the god of this system of things, and all his human and spirit pawns and victims working their 'magic' on me. Hence, I actually prefer sticking to quoting from the Bible. But I'm leaving that comment there (I could easily trim it down, cause I'm not out of time, but I don't see how it can do any more harm than has already been done to people here, so why bother, like I said, there's also a slim chance it may do some good to someone, who sees the same things I'm seeing on ATS, and who realizes how many demons or demon-possessed, or demon-influenced people should be here given the nature of ATS, a counterfeit truth-seeking website and internetforum, a cesspool* for people to wallow in, "always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth", 2 Tim 3:7).

*: Not exactly the place to be for a servant of God.

2 Peter 2:17-22:

These are waterless springs and mists driven by a violent storm, and the blackest darkness has been reserved for them. 18 They make high-sounding statements that are empty. By appealing to the desires of the flesh and with acts of brazen conduct,* [Or “acts of shameless conduct.”] they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for if anyone is overcome by someone, he is his slave.* [Or “overcome by something, he is its slave.”] 20 Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first. 21 It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”

On a lighter note:

Guns don't kill people,people kill people.
Who are you to decide what is Father and son or Mother and son time?
Being from a Marxist hellhole I see you know you place according to your masters.

Let's not forget the biggest gun cult in America, and around the world: law enforcement.

It's time to hold those gun nuts accountable for their members. They walk the streets with guns on their hips. Many have guns concealed in shoulder holsters. They have access to assault guns. Many of them even have gun ranges in their precincts. They shoot unarmed people and are seldom held accountable, much less serving the jail time they deserve.

Maybe this case will serve as an example. Maybe the next time some gun cultist law enforcement officer shoots someone, we can jail the entire department for allowing these psychos to walk the streets with lethal weapons.





Guns are bad. We need to get all these guns off the streets. We should start with law enforcement.

youtu.be...

This is a hard one for me.

Should the parents be charged with anything? Yes. They purchased and provided a minor with a gun and did not make sure it was locked up. My son has two rifles since he was 12 and he cannot take them out unless i unlock. However, he could have just waited till he was 18 and purchased one.

Should they be associated with the murders of those poor kids? No. Why? Because now we need to see ANY parent whose child is under 18 and involved in a shooting charged with neglect. If these two were non-white this would have never happened (the charges to be clear).

Should those at school be charged? Yes. The SRO and whoever checked his bag. There was a parent/teacher conference that day and no one fully searched his backpack after these threats? Straight up neglect.

Do parents miss things with kids? Yes. Them not knowing what he could to though is hard. There are tons of horrible parents whose kids do horrible things but for some reason this does not occur as much as I think it should. If a child is 14 and shoots 3 kids why is that parent not charged?

It is a sad cases. These people from hearing interviews as POS's but I do not believe they should do a ton of jail time. Make them work with kids for 500 hours of Community service so maybe they can learn something and make a difference in another kids life.