Contact! A 25 year UN disclosure plan is now in year 5

originally posted by: MrGashler
On the topic of FTL communication, haven't we already found a way to do this? If memory serves me correctly, Quantum Entanglement can be used to transmit information across any distance instantaneously.

The quantum entanglement theory is widely accepted. But the practical use of it as a technology to transport information faster than light is not, TTBOMK.

But what do I know. According to Simon Hollander, who heard it through a very reliable grapevine, the folks over at Zorg (11 ly away) are in communication with us using entangled particles.

Initially I failed to see how the Zorgians would have gotten hold of the other "half" of one of our entangled particles. But then it struck me: everything in the universe came from the same time and place, so perhaps there is a hidden quantumphysical connection between all particles. Maybe all particles have "addresses", and perhaps you can actually instruct them to "entangle" by manipulation of these addresses. It is simply that we did not figure that out yet.

But say the folks over at Zorg have. And somehow, by means of good old electromagnetics have sent us instructions on how to do that. And here we are, with an entangled particle, entangled with its counterpart over at 73 Willow Lane, in the city of Nimbits over at Zorg. O heck, perhaps they even taught us to entangle microbes!

So say we now have these entangled bacteria which are connected with their counterparts on Zorg. Now, we poke our half, and the other half yells "ouch!". Presto, we have a way to communicate!

One never knows. But is it likely?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

But say the folks over at Zorg have. And somehow, by means of good old electromagnetics have sent us instructions on how to do that. And here we are, with an entangled particle, entangled with its counterpart over at 73 Willow Lane, in the city of Nimbits over at Zorg. O heck, perhaps they even taught us to entangle microbes!

I’m sure their first order of instructions were something along the lines of “Stop detonating nukes you effing idiots!”

How did we get their attention in the first place?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I did and thats why i run this out every now and then...

So far everytime i post i get the same replies that he seems to be knowledgeable...but no one can come to a definite conclusion ...


Still love the story even after over a decade

Eta

I think its hard to come to a conclusion because so few people have the background to explain it all

You may know the computer lingo but do you know the nasa/rover lingo ? Can you combine them to fool everyone?

Idk but i love it

It was back in 2001 that one response to the Arecibo message occurred at Chilbolton and next to the SETI facility there, link. How many other responses have been covered up and ignored along the way?

The explanation of how quantum tunneling works is a start, but still leaves some things unanswered in how it works and what is going on with it. A lot of research is going on here with a competitive advantage for those that can crack it.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
But what do I know. According to Simon Hollander, who heard it through a very reliable grapevine, the folks over at Zorg (11 ly away) are in communication with us using entangled particles.

I don't know how you can misunderstand what he said so badly. He clearly said quantum tunneling, and that's what it says in the description of the video you posted in the OP:

How would we speak in real time to an ET, 11 light yers away? maybe with Quantum Tunneling Communication.

Just to see if I missed something, I copied the entire transcript to a text file and searched that for the word "entangled" and "entanglement" and got no matches. Quantum entanglement is not related to quantum tunneling, other than the fact that both phrases contain the word "quantum". So really all this other stuff about entangled particles is completely irrelevant to Simon's claim:

But then it struck me: everything in the universe came from the same time and place, so perhaps there is a hidden quantumphysical connection between all particles. Maybe all particles have "addresses", and perhaps you can actually instruct them to "entangle" by manipulation of these addresses. It is simply that we did not figure that out yet.

We could just as easily say "and then they waved their magic wand and magical communication happened as a result of the wand", since both magic wand and magic addresses hypotheses have equal support in observation and experiment. But my main point is that entangled communications is not even what Simon is claiming, he's claiming quantum tunneling.

a reply to: Another_Nut
Did you ever hear of Donna Hare? In the linked post, Jim Oberg says "I don’t question her honesty. Just her accuracy."

People say she really seems to be honestly describing some strange photos she saw at NASA, and I can't rule out her seeing them. Since the photos don't seem plausible, one hypothesis I've seen circulated is that maybe she did see some doctored photos. This hypothesis claimed that some NASA employees were aware of her interest in UFOs and wanted to have a little fun with her and doctered some photos of some implausible things that she would end up seeing, as sort of a prank. I have no idea if this is true, but I can think of no better explanation for how Hare might be honestly describing photos she saw that are simply not plausible if they were real. It's plausible she saw them if they were doctored, so either she saw doctored photos, or she's not accurate about what she saw or maybe even making it up. I prefer to think she didn't make it up, which leads me to find the doctored photos hypothesis has some credibility.

What's the point of this? Just to suggest that if that hypothesis is true, it may indicate that even NASA employees may like to joke around and pull our legs. I am not a NASA insider and it's certainly possible that astroengineer was, but also remember that astroengineer said he had changed numerous elements of the story to anonymize his identity. Those teams are not that big and that's the hardest part of his story to swallow for me is that he could relate an accurate story and still keep his identity anonymous. His supposed solution to that problem, is to not tell the story accurately, so, keep that in mind, it's not an accusation, it's an admission from the author!

a reply to: sendhelp

EDIT: check quantum entanglement and quantum entanglement experiments

at 12:50 my ears perked up because the concept he is describing where the two spheres had lines drawn between them, that is quantum entanglement.

around 18:08 he suggest that the "distance" between us, 11 lightyears or so, is irrelevant, and, I think....implies that time and space are not what we think they are, and that this is possible because "everything is connected" kind of...all at once. Also when he descibred how "when you look at this one, that one changes direction, and when you look at that one, vice versa" there is a quantum phenomenon, I do not remember what it is called, somebody help me if anyone knows, but, the state of a particle changes itself simply by being observed, sort of as if, something knows we are observing it! Its rather mind boggling. Theres another experiment that has to do with shooting particles thru slits in the wall, and the fuss is about how they land, it doesnt jive with our perceptions and (doesnt 'make sense').

But science is beginning to touch on quantum stuff and maybe it will slowly turn out that time, space, and reality, are not what we thought at all. That part when he mentioned that '11 light years is irrelevent because everything is connected' (not exact quote, paraphrasing)...blew my mind, but then remembered that quantum entanglement experiment (there I just remembered the name, I think.)

It also kind of ties in with the Electric Universe Theory, which i dont know too too much about, but get the gist of it. But, if all this turns out to be correct, that....is......trippy.

What if Tesla touched on this and perhaps thats how he was able to draw electricity seemingly out of the air, (at great distances) but, it really wasnt (out of the air) because its like there is a giant block of invisible quantum conductive material between here and there and it can take a path instantly. I think im not describing it right tho, its more described correctly as strings (and hey, strings look like wires, interesting )

Wouldnt it also be what Bob Lazar describes as how the electronics worked in the alien craft he supposedly worked in S-4, but on smaller scale?

I think.
Very cool stuff.
I put a sticky note on my wall for 2036, this will be a testament to the adhesion power of 3M sticky notes as well.
But I dont anticipate it to last past 3:30pm tomorrow, will update if theres a change*

Oh, and this is one of my first legit posts Been an avid reader for, well, 20 years, story for another time.

Respectfully,
-hydro

a reply to: ForteanOrg
"But then it struck me: everything in the universe came from the same time and place, so perhaps there is a hidden quantumphysical connection between all particles. Maybe all particles have "addresses", and perhaps you can actually instruct them to "entangle" by manipulation of these addresses. It is simply that we did not figure that out yet."

But what if we did figure it out, and it was Tesla's idea. Then perhaps its easier than we thought and the answer lies right underneath our noses until the next great discovery of quantum wireless electricity? It should would explain this alot. Perhaps they have a receiver that "fishes" for quantum 'signals' or particles being observed in such a way that they move. Im no expert, but if one man on earth can make a quantum wireless electricity transmitter...with stuff he sourced and acquired, whats to say a whole civilzation hasnt perfected the method. (hope at least they didnt disappear the dude that made the discovery on their planet!! RIP Tesla) But its all speculation, like you said. One never knows....unless this 3M sticky note can last until 2036. Game on.


Respectfully,
-hydro

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
I don't know how you can misunderstand what he said so badly. He clearly said quantum tunneling

Indeed he did, no dispute there. And yes, I was clearly referring to ENTANGLEMENT, you are right. It was the honourable MrGashler who wrote:

On the topic of FTL communication, haven't we already found a way to do this? If memory serves me correctly, Quantum Entanglement can be used to transmit information across any distance instantaneously.

.. to which I replied. It would be weird to reply to a statement about entanglement with an answer referring to tunneling, indeed.

You also wrote:

We could just as easily say "and then they waved their magic wand and magical communication happened as a result of the wand", since both magic wand and magic addresses hypotheses have equal support in observation and experiment.

Indeed! You magnificiently catched my drift

I think what we theorize as a Quantum Tunneling communication device….

The Aliens call it an “Interociter”



😆

👽

originally posted by: hydr0cannibal
a reply to: sendhelpAlso when he descibred how "when you look at this one, that one changes direction, and when you look at that one, vice versa" there is a quantum phenomenon, I do not remember what it is called, somebody help me if anyone knows, but, the state of a particle changes itself simply by being observed, sort of as if, something knows we are observing it! Its rather mind boggling. Theres another experiment that has to do with shooting particles thru slits in the wall, and the fuss is about how they land, it doesnt jive with our perceptions and (doesnt 'make sense').
-hydro

You seem to refer to the experiment in which atoms either behave like waves or particles, depending on if they are being observed or not. A fair and human readable explanation can be found here.

Our quantum classrooms tell us that communication using entangled electrons is not possible. As soon as one side observes the state, the other side is instantly opposite. There would have to be a way to force the spin of the other half of the entangled pair to match a pre-determined data bit. on or off, which , according to what we know about quantum physics, is not possible.

So, if indeed there is a way to do instantaneous communication, that alone revolutionizes communications on our entire planet and all of our spacecraft... You could drive the Mars rover realtime, GPS would be able to resolve to a nanometer!!! and computers would have no latency and run at unimaginable speeds....

So, how could the UN not expose this already to a world that is so concerned with our environment and energy use.... It just does not make sense.

a reply to: charlyv

You wrote

Our quantum classrooms tell us that communication using entangled electrons is not possible. As soon as one side observes the state, the other side is instantly opposite. There would have to be a way to force the spin of the other half of the entangled pair to match a pre-determined data bit. on or off, which , according to what we know about quantum physics, is not possible.

In these cases, one simply uses a sufficiently synchronised clock on both sides, to be synchronised by a series of "zeroes" and "ones". A one or zero will be defined by "peeking" (or is it poking..) our particle during a slot (a one) or not (a zero). The observed particle will change its behaviour and so the other particle will do likewise.

By monitoring the changes during the slots, you can transfer data. Of course, you'd need to establish a scheme first, e.g. like the unicode table or similar, to be able to interpret the data. And I wonder if observing the "receiving" particle would not change its state vice versa - are entangled particles mutually entangled?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
.. to which I replied. It would be weird to reply to a statement about entanglement with an answer referring to tunneling, indeed.

I replied to the question about quantum entanglement too, so I don't have any issue with you replying about quantum entanglement in general. My issue was with your claim that Simon talked about quantum entanglement, and you still haven't cleared this up by either clearly retracting this claim, or pointing me in the right direction, to find where I missed it:

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
But what do I know. According to Simon Hollander, who heard it through a very reliable grapevine, the folks over at Zorg (11 ly away) are in communication with us using entangled particles.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
By monitoring the changes during the slots, you can transfer data. Of course, you'd need to establish a scheme first, e.g. like the unicode table or similar, to be able to interpret the data. And I wonder if observing the "receiving" particle would not change its state vice versa - are entangled particles mutually entangled?

we need to question if that's really "transferring data". A more accurate description of observations, is that the entangled states are correlated, so when you observe the state of one, you immediately know the state of the other, even if it's 11 light years away. But we don't know that it involved the transfer of data; we have no evidence that it does, and we think maybe it doesn't.

Untangling Quantum Entanglement

“It may be tempting to think that the particles are somehow communicating with each other across these great distances, but that is not the case,” says Thomas Vidick, a professor of computing and mathematical sciences at Caltech. “There can be correlation without communication.” Instead, he explains, entangled particles are so closely connected that there is no need for communication; they “can be thought of as one object.”

So according to that professor, the entangled particles are correlated, and there can be correlation without communication.
The reason that scheme you wrote doesn't work is that yes you can "send data" if you want to call "random noise" data, but that's a stretch. When you collapse the state of one particle of an entangled pair, you have no control over that state, it's completely random, so all you can send is random "noise".

But, you may say, you can figure out a way to force particles into a particular state so you're not just sending random noise. That's the scenario described here, and you will need to read the link to find out why that doesn't work:

Even with quantum entanglement, there’s no faster-than-light communication

This seems like a great setup for enabling faster-than-light communication. All you need is a sufficiently prepared system of entangled quantum particles, an agreed-upon system for what the various signals will mean when you make your measurements, and a pre-determined time at which you’ll make those critical measurements. From even light-years away, you can instantly learn about what was measured at a destination by observing the particles you’ve had with you all along.

But is this right?

Nice try, but it's been tried and it doesn't work. Read the link to find out why.

By the way, an ATS member Neoholographic previosuly made a "faster than light communication" thread about once a year on ATS, repeatedly stating his misinformation and misunderstanding about the topic. After doing that for years, and me usually explaining the real science in his threads, he finally seemed to stop making those threads. I still don't know if he ever figured out there's no faster than light communication demonstrated yet, and may never be demonstrated because it may not be possible at all, except that certain wormhole theories don't rule it out. While it may be possible with wormholes, wormholes have their own set of issues, since the theories often require some sort of exotic matter like negative mass. How do you get a mass below zero? So far it's just in a speculative realm, since we've never seen negative mass.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
My issue was with your claim that Simon talked about quantum entanglement, and you still haven't cleared this up by either clearly retracting this claim, or pointing me in the right direction, to find where I missed it

Ah, yes, I see! I stand corrected and now clearly retract this claim, thank you for pointing out my mistake

We need to question if that's really "transferring data". A more accurate description of observations, is that the entangled states are correlated, so when you observe the state of one, you immediately know the state of the other, even if it's 11 light years away. But we don't know that it involved the transfer of data; we have no evidence that it does, and we think maybe it doesn't.

My assumption was that one could indeed change the state of a set of entangled particles by simply changing the "local" part here, and then observe the state of its counterpart over at Zorg. Poking it here, and peeking there vice versa. A statechange within a specified slot (or the missing thereof) would indeed be a way to transfer the old fashioned basic element of data: the bit. In this case it is not of any importance at al in what state the particle is, but merely the fact it CHANGES its state is. If it changes its state, we simply say "that's a one" and if it does not we say "it's a zero".

The reason that scheme you wrote doesn't work is that yes you can "send data" if you want to call "random noise" data, but that's a stretch. When you collapse the state of one particle of an entangled pair, you have no control over that state, it's completely random, so all you can send is random "noise".

But you COULD detect change, couldn´t you? It would not matter what state a particle would be in, as long as it normally does not change state, but only if we want it to. Now, you seem to be knowledgeable on the topic, so, I'd like to know your opinion on this.

I've read that this is not possible.

Please see no-communication theorem

Or as another scientist has explained:

"..Suppose I tear a dollar bill in half and put the halves in an envelope. I hand one envelope to you and shoot the other off to Mars in a rocket. Then a few months later, I ask you to open your envelope. You find it’s the left half of the dollar bill. I now immediately know that the half in the rocket is the right half. I now know something instantaneously about an object that is very far away, but no information has traveled from Mars to here (or here to Mars) at faster than c, nothing has changed in the envelope on the rocket, and there is no way to use this correlation between the envelopes to transmit information from here to someone aboard the rocket."

a reply to: DaydreamerX

Nice one! But - assume I flip the dollar bill over, wouldn't its quantum equivalent half also flip?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: DaydreamerX

Nice one! But - assume I flip the dollar bill over, wouldn't its quantum equivalent half also flip?

I am no scientist by any streach of imagination, so wouldn't know. Guess example with the dollar bill is only a crude approximation. The more detailed reasons are way over my head.

cheers)

a reply to: DaydreamerX

Well, though not totally without a brain, I also struggle with quantum physics. But it seems that even tunneling (and also entanglement) can not break the generic law that nothing can exceed the speed of light. Rest assured, scientists - it is still impossible that heavier than air contraptions will fly

BTW, it seems that the name of the person that Simon Hollander hints at is quite easy to find. He provides all kinds of hints during his video (and it is unclear to me why he does this), e.g. he refers to this person having worked for a German car producer whose name starts with a P (oh, well.. I wonder whom that would be..), refers to an EU radiotelescope network this person has been working for (there aren't that many) and informs us this person is semi-retired. So, he just as well might have mentioned the name.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Perhaps from the planetary system of Gliese 887 , roughly 11 Light Years from Earth.

They found the red dwarf has at least two "super-Earth" exoplanets, dubbed Gliese 887 b and Gliese 887 c. The former is about 4.2 times Earth's mass and orbits just 6.8% of an astronomical unit (AU) from its star (one astronomical unit is the average distance between Earth and the sun), whereas the latter is about 7.6 times Earth's mass and orbits 12% of an AU from the red dwarf.

The researchers also found evidence for a possible third planet farther out from Gliese 887. Although the red dwarf's two confirmed planets are likely too hot for life as we know it on Earth, this potential third planet might lie within the star's habitable zone, where surface temperatures are suitable to host liquid water.
www.space.com...