The US Constitution Is a Contract, And It Has Been Broken

originally posted by: JinMI
When you allow one branch of gov't to violate established law, where else does it take you?

Do tell?

I'm still waiting for the laws being violated. I mean we know the law you cited for individuals but those don't apply to gov't entities.

Can you cite those?

I said that if you don't want to operate under the immigration laws fine.

Obstruction of justice is perfectly acceptable too. Sedition? Even dereliction of duty if we want to include military.

Pick your poison really.

Sorry, I edited.

I'm talking about US immigration laws. I'm waiting for you to cite the laws that the gov't entities are breaking.

The executive has the right and they are within their jurisdiction to implement policy which they see fit to handle this matter.

SCOTUS can check them, as well as congress.

8 USC 1325

(d)Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

How interesting.....

Not really, an individual isn't a gov't entity and no, it isn't two tier, it just means the duty of one group gives them leeway, like firemen breaking a cars windows so they can get to a hydrant, especially if the car was parked where it shouldn't have been.

Under normal circumstances, if a random person broke the windows of that car, they broke the law. In the scenario above, nobody is going to be held accountable. It was what had to be done by people with that authority.

Perhaps fixing a broken immigration system would be a great start then.

Perhaps that fix is what you are seeing in the US right now.

ETA: Could be the same thing happening in the EU.

a reply to: daskakik

The executive has the right and they are within their jurisdiction to implement policy which they see fit to handle this matter.

SCOTUS can check them, as well as congress.

...within applicable law. We already settled this didn't we?

Not really, an individual isn't a gov't entity and no, it isn't two tier, it just means the duty of one group gives them leeway, like firemen breaking a cars windows so they can get to a hydrant, especially if the car was parked where it shouldn't have been.

Under normal circumstances, if a random person broke the windows of that car, they broke the law. In the scenario above, nobody is going to be held accountable. It was what had to be done by people with that authority.

So if you're wondering why I keep logically concluding that you are advocating for a two tiered justice system, here it is.
The laws apply, or they don't

The fireman doesn't create and apply the policies they operate under and furthermore any protections they have come from the people (legislature) as LEO's do.

There is a wide world between those who make policy, those who enforce them and those that merely live under them.

Perhaps that fix is what you are seeing in the US right now.

Somehow I doubt that allowing millions of undocumented illegal immigrants into the country is a fix for anything. Well, if we're using the definitional, unironic version of the word "fix."

originally posted by: daskakik
. I'm saying that the OP thinking they can just use a dictionary definition to claim the contract has been broken, is hyperbole.

Yeah ... I don't think so.
I"m asking a question and I'm using examples of definitions of words to do so.
Article I, Section 8 says it's the job of the government to stop invasions.
The American people pay the government to do this.
Both the American people and the government agreed to this.
But we are being invaded and the government isn't stopping it.
I included a definition of 'invasion' to be clear.
Therefore, it looks like the contract between the government and the people are broken.
I could be wrong. But I could also be right. I just don't know.

originally posted by: JinMI
...within applicable law. We already settled this didn't we?

Right to be heard seems pretty set in common law.

Yeah, I think we already settled this.

So if you're wondering why I keep logically concluding that you are advocating for a two tiered justice system, here it is. The laws apply, or they don't

I just gave you two examples where they don't, cops chasing a criminal going over the speed limit and destruction of property by firemen because the property doesn't have the value of the humans they might save.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm ok with those exemptions.

Somehow I doubt that allowing millions of undocumented illegal immigrants into the country is a fix for anything. Well, if we're using the definitional, unironic version of the word "fix."

They won't all add to the GDP, but I'm thinking most will.

You got a whole bunch millenials and alphas that are not even thinking about making babies. Like I said, the higher ups might be taking that into account. I can't blame them.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Both the American people and the government agreed to this.

Let me just stop you there, nobody alive today agreed to this.

I do understand that it is an agreement understood by the following generations and it should be honored. Still this isn't an invasion.

Personally I think it is imported labor, not the old fashioned way when it was by force (slavery).

I am Guatemalan, I tell everyone who brings up the subject of immigrating to the US, don't believe your family members that come back to Guatemala and max out their credit cards trying to impress you, you will be working your a$$ off over there.

I grew up in the US. I know how great it is. Other than kinda being imperialistic, what with US military all over the planet, I just can't really say it is bad.

But we are being invaded and the government isn't stopping it.
I included a definition of 'invasion' to be clear.
Therefore, it looks like the contract between the government and the people are broken.
I could be wrong. But I could also be right. I just don't know.

I could also be wrong or right, but I think there is a bigger picture.

Like I said earlier, dropping birth rates among the US pop. might get a boost from the hired help.

The poster says as they whine about the border 😂 I can see how your username would fit like a favourite jackboot, as you have to look at yourself in the mirror every morning 🤣

Your point is still valid, the issue should be taken to a court and precedent set from a legal standpoint.

It would be supremely hilarious if the baby was thrown out with the bath water, however it could also lay out the road ahead and then politicians of all stripes would be neutered.

a reply to: Disgusted123

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: FlyersFan

The " contract agreement " was broken over 200 years ago, when Washington DC was under the control of a foreign power. And then burnt to the ground.

Which time 😆

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: Mantiss2021

Excellent. Someone is on topic!

You asked - But where in that document does it encumber the citizens of the Country to perform their reciprocal service to the Government?

My questions - Does someone have to do something of service, or is simply being a citizen holding up their end of the contract? Like the citizen saying - "I'll be a citizen and I'll pay for everything if you'll take care of everything" and the government saying "We will be the government and keep invaders out".

You already pay taxes and obey laws or face the consequences. That’s a citizen’s end of the deal.

originally posted by: Dalamax
Which time 😆

I think it was 1814.

Might want to look it up.

Y'all didn't have Stealth bombers back in the day.

a reply to: daskakik

I just gave you two examples where they don't, cops chasing a criminal going over the speed limit and destruction of property by firemen because the property doesn't have the value of the humans they might save.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm ok with those exemptions.

Your two analogies are not logical. Police and fireman have a specific duty and that requires specific authority. But moreover, the critical point in any case is a criminal mind. Police and fireman, largely aren't breaking the laws for the sake of some political end. They are doing it inline with their duty.

They won't all add to the GDP, but I'm thinking most will.

You got a whole bunch millenials and alphas that are not even thinking about making babies. Like I said, the higher ups might be taking that into account. I can't blame them.

Again, even giving your opinion the benefit of the doubt, breaking the law and spitting in the face of all of the legal immigrants and the ones waiting their turn is not the correct way. Especially if you need to violate the law to do it.

originally posted by: JinMI
Your two analogies are not logical. Police and fireman have a specific duty and that requires specific authority. But moreover, the critical point in any case is a criminal mind. Police and fireman, largely aren't breaking the laws for the sake of some political end. They are doing it inline with their duty.

Obviously you are missing the point. Yes, that is why they are allowed to do these things.

You can choose to call this a two tier justice system. I simply said I understand why exemptions in those cases would be applied and I wouldn't consider it a two tier justice system.

So my question is, why would other gov't officials doing things outlawed for individuals, as long as it is in their jurisdiction and not being illegal, at least by what you cited, which is nothing, be considered illegal?

Again, even giving your opinion the benefit of the doubt, breaking the law and spitting in the face of all of the legal immigrants and the ones waiting their turn is not the correct way. Especially if you need to violate the law to do it.

Sorry, but the law is there.

8 CFR § 208.4 - Filing the application.

(2) One-year filing deadline.

(i) For purposes of section 208(a)(2)(B) of the Act, an applicant has the burden of proving:

(A) By clear and convincing evidence that the application has been filed within 1 year of the date of the alien's arrival in the United States, or

(B) To the satisfaction of the asylum officer, the immigration judge, or the Board that he or she qualifies for an exception to the 1-year deadline.

And like we, maybe just I, agreed to earlier the law is the law.

a reply to: daskakik

You might want to View this for the Record . Criminal Behavior in a Constitutional Republic Shall Not be Tolerated . Democracy is the Enemy of Individual Freedoms and will also Not be Tolerated by a Free People .

a reply to: Zanti Misfit
Viewed it and don't see what it has to do with what we have been talking about because nobody mentioned democracy. In fact, the voice of the public majority seems to be something not wanted or allowed.

We have been talking about laws in the republic structure. Separation of powers in the branches and who is allowed to legally install policy that they see fit, the other powers not opposing or stopping it if they deem it wrong.

That is why we are here, some individuals, with no say, venting why they think TPTB are handling it wrong.

Seems to me that if you side with them, you are actually advocating for democracy. I'm not going to judge. Not my place.

a reply to: daskakik

What do you Think we are Living here Today in the United States ? I See a Socialist Takeover of our Federal Government that is Diametrically Opposed to Our Constitutional Republic .



" We have been talking about laws in the republic structure. Separation of powers in the branches and who is allowed to legally install policy that they see fit, the other powers not opposing or stopping it if they deem it wrong."

WE THE PEOPLE Decide what is " Fit " , Not Our Elected " Employees " . All " Powers " Come from Us and can be taken Away by Us if Need be . This Point seems to be Missing from this Threads Debate . The Video I Posted was just a Reminder of Who Really is in Charge here in America .

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
WE THE PEOPLE Decide what is " Fit " , Not Our Elected " Employees " .

Seems to me you might be waking up to what reality is.

WE THE PEOPLE sounds nice but, if you think about it, WE THE PEOPLE is the mob the republic tried to avoid.

I am not part of YOU THE PEOPLE , I'm part of another WE THE PEOPLE going through the same growing pains.

Hate to break it to you but when you give your voice to representatives, you are not deciding. They decide for you.

a reply to: daskakik

" They decide for you."

Until they are Replaced , Replaced , Replaced . Sooner or Later one Sticks with the People . A Flaw in Our System of Government that Needs Addressing .

originally posted by: daskakik
Let me just stop you there, nobody alive today agreed to this.

Then the contract died when the last person to sign it died.

I don't think that it has to be the people who signed the contract. They signed FOR the states. They stood in FOR the states. As long as the state is in operation then the contract is in force, IMHO.

Still this isn't an invasion.

See ... that's where I don't know for sure. The original meaning probably meant armed forced coming in with bad intent. I don't think the framers saw tens of millions of illegals coming in and financially ruining the country and breaking it.

I see tens of millions of destructive people coming over the border as an invasion.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Biggest violation of date;

Constitution of the United States says in Article IV ... Section 4 The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence. ...

Domestic violence, like stores being burned and police shot in head while at stop lights, or illegal aliens raping?
The list can and does go on.

Speaking of violation of Contract, the federal government has been rogue, and therefore no longer a legitimate authority. Because all authority is derived from the consent of the governed, I do not consent.

Stop consenting, stop voting for corrupt career parasite politicians. Hold them responsible for their actions, send them to Gitmo for every decade spent in politics and DCs revolving door.

No one, especially them, is above the law.

United We Stand, The Rest Is, Not An Option!
🇺🇲