Encoded information is evidence of Intelligent Design

originally posted by: TzarChasm
What kind of intelligent design results in children developing cancer?

Same designer who gave people choice
You want heaven on a stick and complain that God doesn’t exist because you are not in that paradise
This isn’t paradise, it’s a broken world, why believers want Christ to return
He promised to restore order, restore the children

You have no basic foundational concept of Christianity
This isn’t Gods creation anymore

originally posted by: Creaky
Same designer who gave people choice
You want heaven on a stick and complain that God doesn’t exist because you are not in that paradise
This isn’t paradise, it’s a broken world, why believers want Christ to return
He promised to restore order, restore the children

You have no basic foundational concept of Christianity
This isn’t Gods creation anymore

Yeah it's funny. Atheists complain when God doesn't stop people from doing bad things, then they also complain when God stops people from doing bad things.

originally posted by: Creaky

originally posted by: TzarChasm
What kind of intelligent design results in children developing cancer?

Same designer who gave people choice
You want heaven on a stick and complain that God doesn’t exist because you are not in that paradise
This isn’t paradise, it’s a broken world, why believers want Christ to return
He promised to restore order, restore the children

You have no basic foundational concept of Christianity
This isn’t Gods creation anymore

These are just assertions motivated by your religious beliefs. Christianity is one of the three main Abrahamic Religions and nothing special. It believes in a God who is really unpleasant as a character and not the God of love and peace as he is portrayed by his followers and the followers of his 'son'.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Creaky
Same designer who gave people choice
You want heaven on a stick and complain that God doesn’t exist because you are not in that paradise
This isn’t paradise, it’s a broken world, why believers want Christ to return
He promised to restore order, restore the children

You have no basic foundational concept of Christianity
This isn’t Gods creation anymore

Yeah it's funny. Atheists complain when God doesn't stop people from doing bad things, then they also complain when God stops people from doing bad things.

God?

Where is the evidence there is an intelligent designer?

Likewise, where is the evidence he had a son who he sent to earth to save humanity.

originally posted by: madscientist3000
I have very little to no knowledge of religion and I am not a religious person. However, it is clear to me that the world / universe is designed. As an engineer, I see a lot of correlation in the work that our team does daily with what already exists in nature. We live in a world where scientism is the new religion. Scientists consistently come up with explanations that are significantly more unlikely than the simple explanation that the universe is designed. In my opinion as an engineer, and I don't pretend to convince anybody, there is plenty of evidence that the reality we inhabit is the product of mind.

Great point!

Scientism is basically I can't refute what you're saying so I will just act incredulous and repeat over and over again that there's no evidence for Intelligent Design while ignoring the evidence.

On this thread they haven't provided any evidence that simply shows how nature can encode a sequence with information. In the genteic code, it's not the actual amino acids encoded on the sequence of codons, it's just information that codes for that amino acid in a DNA sequence. It doesn't get decoded until it goes from DNA sequence to MRNA strand to polypeptide chain where an actual amino acid is put into a sequence specified by the DNA sequence. Hubert Yockey realized this and here are some points.

DNA code has much in common with human language and computer languages

DNA transcription is an encoding / decoding mechanism isomorphic with Claude Shannon’s 1948 model: The sequence of base pairs is encoded into messenger RNA which is decoded into proteins.

Information theory terms and ideas applied to DNA are not metaphorical, but in fact quite literal in every way. In other words, the information theory argument for design is not based on analogy at all. It is direct application of mathematics to DNA, which by definition is a code.

The book Information Theory, Evolution and the Origin of Life is written by Hubert Yockey, the foremost living specialist in bioinformatics. The publisher is Cambridge University press. Yockey rigorously demonstrates that the coding process in DNA is identical to the coding process and mathematical definitions used in Electrical Engineering. This is not subjective, it is not debatable or even controversial. It is a brute fact:

“Information, transcription, translation, code, redundancy, synonymous, messenger, editing, and proofreading are all appropriate terms in biology. They take their meaning from information theory (Shannon, 1948) and are not synonyms, metaphors, or analogies.” (Hubert P. Yockey, Information Theory, Evolution, and the Origin of Life, Cambridge University Press, 2005)
evo2.org...

Here's a schematic from his book:




For some reason atheist think that science supports their position but I haven't read a single published paper that says this research refutes the existence of God. In fact, Christians have contributed to scientific research over the years:

By one estimate made by Weijia Zhang from Arizona State University and Robert G. Fuller from University of Nebraska–Lincoln, between 1901 and 1990, 60% of Physics Nobel prize winners had Christian backgrounds.[2] In an estimate by Baruch Shalev, between 1901 and 2000, about 65.3% of Physics Nobel prize winners were either Christians or had a Christian background.[1]
Wiki

Scientism is exactly what it is!

a reply to: Venkuish1

Just assertions motivated by my beliefs, that’s pretty enlightening, isn’t it?
Be a bit stupid if they were motivated by Mickey mouses beliefs I guess, so yes, mine, that’s reassuring

Christianity is nothing special, we can agree on that, less than special, in fact thinking about it, Christianity in and of itself is pretty special, the adherents on the other hand, they are not that special, pretty poor at following the teachings
Christianity, not like any other faith, it is pretty special

As for God being unpleasant, yes, just like to criminals police, the justice system, courts are unpleasant.
Justice is unpleasant, we can agree on that as well

There is nothing that can proove you wrong, because we are still figuring most of it out.

what many here fall victim to is the dunning Kruger effect, and the other bunch is resorting to the God of gaps.
Pretty infertile ground to have thought provoking discussions.
It's a funny thought experiment that can end in various places.
So what is intelligence?

If we take us as reference, It could be a dimensional thing, where our universe is small and fits into a bowl in theirs, or we are in a simulation. Maybe it's panspermia, and life is designed to evolve to the point of remembering where it came from. Like a fungi that spreads it's spores everywhere but only those landing on fertile ground get to inoculate. After many years the mycelium connect and they become one system...

a reply to: neoholographicpart2

This is not an encoded creators design.
Plain and simple, this is the building blocks of life, DNA sequences have been passed on since the evolution of life first started.
Thats why things like this happen...
www.babycenter.com...

From conception to labor, your baby is constantly growing and developing. Your baby moves through different stages, starting as a blastocyst, then maturing into an embryo, and then a fetus. Around the 5 week mark, cells in your baby's future heart will begin to flicker. At 27 weeks they'll have regular sleep and wake cycles, and at 39 weeks your baby is physically developed

DNA is the simpliest way of managing and passing ongenetic information like eye shape and colour, the instructions that a living organism needs to grow, reproduce and function. DNA also contains the instructions necessary for our cells to produce proteins that affect many different processes and functions in our body.

originally posted by: Kurokage
a reply to: neoholographicpart2

This is not an encoded creators design.
Plain and simple, this is the building blocks of life, DNA sequences have been passed on since the evolution of life first started.
Thats why things like this happen...
www.babycenter.com...

From conception to labor, your baby is constantly growing and developing. Your baby moves through different stages, starting as a blastocyst, then maturing into an embryo, and then a fetus. Around the 5 week mark, cells in your baby's future heart will begin to flicker. At 27 weeks they'll have regular sleep and wake cycles, and at 39 weeks your baby is physically developed

DNA is the simpliest way of managing and passing on genetic information like eye shape and colour, the instructions that a living organism needs to grow, reproduce and function. DNA also contains the instructions necessary for our cells to produce proteins that affect many different processes and functions in our body.

originally posted by: Creaky
a reply to: Venkuish1

Just assertions motivated by my beliefs, that’s pretty enlightening, isn’t it?
Be a bit stupid if they were motivated by Mickey mouses beliefs I guess, so yes, mine, that’s reassuring

Christianity is nothing special, we can agree on that, less than special, in fact thinking about it, Christianity in and of itself is pretty special, the adherents on the other hand, they are not that special, pretty poor at following the teachings
Christianity, not like any other faith, it is pretty special

As for God being unpleasant, yes, just like to criminals police, the justice system, courts are unpleasant.
Justice is unpleasant, we can agree on that as well

It's precisely the definition of being religious. You believe in a range of things in the absence of evidence and all you need is faith in the scriptures, prophets, chosen people, and ultimately the word of God.

The God of Christianity is very unpleasant. All you have to do is to read the old testament and you will get something very different to what is portrayed as the God of peace and love.

originally posted by: Terpene
There is nothing that can proove you wrong, because we are still figuring most of it out.

what many here fall victim to is the dunning Kruger effect, and the other bunch is resorting to the God of gaps.
Pretty infertile ground to have thought provoking discussions.
It's a funny thought experiment that can end in various places.
So what is intelligence?

If we take us as reference, It could be a dimensional thing, where our universe is small and fits into a bowl in theirs, or we are in a simulation. Maybe it's panspermia, and life is designed to evolve to the point of remembering where it came from. Like a fungi that spreads it's spores everywhere but only those landing on fertile ground get to inoculate. After many years the mycelium connect and they become one system...

The same comment I made in another thread I am participating. Christianity and the other Abrahamic Religions are trying to fill the scientific gaps in knowledge quite unsuccessfully. The religions of gaps or the God of gaps (if you want to use this expression)

a reply to: cooperton

Are you still of the view that viruses don't evolve? Creationism is devoid of science but not every religious person is a creationist. You can believe in a supreme being (creator) and accept the knowledge and advances we have acquired through the scientific method.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Great strides have been made in understanding the evolutionary history of simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) and the zoonoses that gave rise to HIV-1 and HIV-2. What remains unknown is how long these SIVs had been circulating in non-human primates before the transmissions to humans

Another research paper examining the evolution of SIV and the rise of HIV-1 and HIV-2.

There is no basis in the argument you made viruses don't evolve. Not only they do but there is an entire field of research dedicated to virus evolution. There are countless scientific peer reviewed papers and pre-prints examining the various aspects of how viruses evolve and the impact on human pathogenesis or the way vaccines are developed.

a reply to: Venkuish1

Right, while the other side of the argument wants to ignore the gaps and think what we know, is what there is to know.

Historically we've been wrong more than we've been right in the scientific assumptions we made to connect the few patches of known in the vastness of unknowns.

So yeah, in a nutshell it's dunning Kruger vs god of gaps...

If we had the slightest clue how evolution works we wouldn't have a hard time explaining the ebner effect... But here we are 40 years later and still nothing.

a reply to: Terpene

Historically we've been wrong more than we've been right

Science should be unbiased observations and systematic experimentation, which is why Scientific Theories are updated, as we study the facts that are measurable, testable, repeatable, and verifiable our understanding grows, but I don't know where you get 'more wrong than right' from?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
What kind of intelligent design results in children developing cancer?

Twinkies and hormone disruptors omnipresent in what we consume was not part of the intelligent design. We defy the design, and consequences are a result. We live in an objective world with cause and effect. If you consistently consume poison, what do you expect? If you smoke cigs and drink alcohol during pregnancy, what do you expect?

"the people die for lack of knowledge"

Children were dying of cancer before Twinkie factories were built. And other children who die within hours of being born, or in the womb. Some die months later due to mysterious causes. It's happened so many times they have a diagnosis, SIDS.

You know who blames victims? Narcissists.

And yes, I expect someone who has an existential message, a moral imperative and infinite resources to protect those children at all costs. If the ineffable plan knowingly permits children to die every year, roughly 11 per minute if you want a number, then its a cruel and spiteful plan. Hence why it's so ineffable because explaining it without admitting to such cruel spiteful methods is impossible.

originally posted by: Venkuish1
a reply to: cooperton

Are you still of the view that viruses don't evolve? Creationism is devoid of science but not every religious person is a creationist. You can believe in a supreme being (creator) and accept the knowledge and advances we have acquired through the scientific method.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Great strides have been made in understanding the evolutionary history of simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) and the zoonoses that gave rise to HIV-1 and HIV-2. What remains unknown is how long these SIVs had been circulating in non-human primates before the transmissions to humans

Another research paper examining the evolution of SIV and the rise of HIV-1 and HIV-2.

There is no basis in the argument you made viruses don't evolve. Not only they do but there is an entire field of research dedicated to virus evolution. There are countless scientific peer reviewed papers and pre-prints examining the various aspects of how viruses evolve and the impact on human pathogenesis or the way vaccines are developed.

Viruses aren't independent organisms. They also have a seldom known property that was discovered in 2009 by Nobel Prize winner Luc Montagnier. Viruses were found to emit particular electromagnetic signals. Dr. Montagnier then emitted that same detected frequency on an vial of water filled with biological matter. Just from the frequency alone, the virus was able to configure from biological matter.

source



Dr. Montagnier's hypothesis is that the electromagnetic signals are causing particular water structures which then orchestrate the assembly of the virus:



"It was further verified that this DNA had a sequence identical or close to identical to the original DNA sequence of the LTR. In fact, it was 98 % identical"

the 2% of unidentical code leaves plenty of room for variability of protein capsids to trick hosts.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Children were dying of cancer before Twinkie factories were built. Children who die within hours of being born, or in the womb. Some die months later due to mysterious causes. It's happened so many times they have a diagnosis, SIDS.

You know who else blames victims? Narcissists.

There's other aberrations besides external ones. "sin" is the accounting of deviant behavior, deviant behavior strays from archetype and increases the possibility of disease. We were warned of this. Now you want to complain that the warning is true?

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Venkuish1

Right, while the other side of the argument wants to ignore the gaps and think what we know, is what there is to know.

Historically we've been wrong more than we've been right in the scientific assumptions we made to connect the few patches of known in the vastness of unknowns.

So yeah, in a nutshell it's dunning Kruger vs god of gaps...

If we had the slightest clue how evolution works we wouldn't have a hard time explaining the ebner effect... But here we are 40 years later and still nothing.

Nicely said. I said in another thread that dogma from science as well as religion gets in the way of true realization. There are plenty of empirical phenomenon to show the world we live in is absolutely beyond the current scientific theories, and God's true nature is also beyond anyone's current comprehension. We put God in a box, thereby limiting our connection with the limitless

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Children were dying of cancer before Twinkie factories were built. Children who die within hours of being born, or in the womb. Some die months later due to mysterious causes. It's happened so many times they have a diagnosis, SIDS.

You know who else blames victims? Narcissists.

There's other aberrations besides external ones. "sin" is the accounting of deviant behavior, deviant behavior strays from archetype and increases the possibility of disease. We were warned of this. Now you want to complain that the warning is true?

I want to point out that being negligent and even apathetic towards kids who desperately need a miracle is probably one of the biggest arguments against intelligent design. That's not complaining, it's simple logic. As God, your number one priority should be protecting the kids at all costs, if that's too much to expect then yes my disdain is warranted.