Noah's Ark Discovery?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: FarmerSimulation

He went to another thread and claimed I didn't understand what plagiarism is.
Funny huh?

You mean you made the same unfounded accusation in another thread where you were promptly called on the matter and failed to be able to back up your blatant claim with any sort of proof.

He Google and wikis and steals your jokes.
He is the Amy Shumer of ats.

Well, that's broken English, probably because you are rattled.

But if that were the case I'm sure you will be able to provide links to support your allegations.

Let's wait shall we?

But whilst we do its possibly best to return to the topic of the thread.

So you plagiarized his joke?
Lol.
Literally word for word.
You have no original thought in your head.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: FarmerSimulation

I'll give it a watch... But... all those roads leads to a HEAVY theology filter. It's always like leading science to confirm theology. Instead of seeing where it actually lines up.

And here's another unsolicited long answer.

My problem with Genesis is its hard to draw historical record from an adapted story. That was exaggerated to tall tale proportions.

Fine as parable. Nothing against it in that regard, History it is not. At least not directly, here's my reasoning.

Like we know the history. There's no room for Noah.

2400 BCE between the Tigres and Euphrates Rivers puts 600 year old Noah right by present day Al Gharib, Iraq, when lifespans were certainly known to be much shorter. Meaning Noah should belive in An, Enil, Enki, and the other one. It was right before the outset of The Akkadian Empire.

Noah was placed in the same spot as Gilgamesh (the 3rd Mesopotamian flood story) Whose epic was composed in Akkadian during the Middle babylonian period. 1200 BCE, despite being partly told in poems and tidbits going back to the Akkadian downfall, in the 2100s BCE.

Because it's pretty much an adaptive version of the Sumer/Akkadian then Babylonian flood stories, I can't really consider it anything historical.

But therein is your biblical flood. Because that one actually has non-bias sediment data. 3 times it flooded actually. There are several REAL sedimentary flood layers in; 3500 BCE, 2900 BCE, and the worst one in 2600.

Flood myths were PERVASIVE in Mesopotamia. Must have been prone to happening or something.

And theirs are actually WAY more believable.

NOT ALWAYS GILGAMESH, but also an earlier King named Utnapishtim.

Uta-napishtim is the eighth of the antediluvian kings in Mesopotamian legend, just as Noah is the eighth from Enoch in Genesis.[1] He would have lived around 2900 BC, corresponding to the flood deposit at Shuruppak between the Jemdet Nasr and Early Dynastic levels

Both Utnapishtim and Gilgamesh survived a flood in a boat.

The Atra-Hasis tablets include both a creation myth and one of three surviving Babylonian flood myths. The name "Atra-Hasis" also appears, as king of Shuruppak in the times before a flood, on one of the Sumerian King Lists.

3 big floods, 3 separate Babylonian (Sumer/Akkadian) flood myths.

It is generally considered the story surrounding Utnapishtim was the story adapted by The Hebrews.

What also makes me not take this story literally is, there was no break in anything civilization wise, ever. Here are the main ones ONLY IN IRAQ:

Sumer = 5500 - 1800 BCE
Akkad = 2334 - 2154 BCE
Ur III Dynasty = 2112 - 2004 BCE
Babylonia = 1854 - 539 BCE
Assyria = 2025 - 609 BCE

There's never been a break in civilization, even with floods. They recorded important ones that destroyed cities. Never been without an active empire.

They're like plot holes. Massive plot holes that weren't considered when Genesis was written under Persian rule. Things like the continuity of messopotamian civilization before them.

Having just read this I think you are really going to appreciate the time he spends on the correspondence between the Lord of Aratta and enmerkar.
And as for numerous floods.
THE Sphynx shows evidence of surviving 2 floods.
I believe the pyramids of Giza are predeluvian

a reply to: FarmerSimulation

I am sure if you could simply point to this alleged joke i apparently plagiarised that might be nice.

Spit it out son.

If nothing else it will do the dog.

Anyhoo your plain blatant attempt at moving the goal posts simply will not work.

And the fact that you don't understand words don't change the fact that you choose to believe in magic boats or man walking with dinosaurs.

a reply to: FlyersFan

PM for you.

a reply to: andy06shake

Did I mention cheerleader too?
Lol.
Does flyersfan know you are an antishemite?
Lol

a reply to: FarmerSimulation

Did I mention cheerleader too?
Lol.

Say what now?

Again your not on topic and failing to be understood.

Does flyersfan know you are an antishemite?
Lol

Do you mean "antisemite"?

Naw son i don't tick that box sorry.

As to what "flyersfan" knows, i would not care to speculate, but im pretty sure she does not think anything of the sorts

So I wonder if it is where the pictures were taken many years ago. I also would need to see more outside of a few beams. Right now I'll remain skeptical, but the pictures from 10 years ago open up more possibilities.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: komangwidiatmika

Lol. Kinda sounds like a cave wall. Thought the Chinese were smart. And this news clip looks a bit dated.

Anyway...

OMG WE FOUND WOOD ABOVE THE TREELINE, IN THE WALL OF A CAVE! Almost like it's made of calcium carbonate, or limestone, and possibly hollowed out. Like a pocket of space behind the rock wall. Or just a normal sounding cave wall. But no, it's frozen wood. Lol.

Also Mt. Ararat is a freaking STRATAVOLCANO. Last large eruption 3rd millenium BCE. (Unless you count 1840) And there would never be caves exactly like this everywhere upon its face.

And I don't mean to harp on the same point again, but 13,000 ft (4000 meters) feet of elevation is not possible. Hasnt it been proven there's only enough water on Earth's surface (useful water) to raise sea level by less than 1000 feet of elevation? Seems like it falls 12,000 feet short, even in a hot earth waterworld scenario.

And no, there's only magical ways on conjured water to get there. Leave Turkey's Mt. Ranier alone!

- NONbeliever (as unbelief requires this ridiculous parable have been instilled at face value at some point)

Hmmm. I agree that the evidence that this find is the ark is probably not properly thought out....

But when I look at your avatar with a demon like woman with horns who is bashing this find, I don't particularly think I should believe you either.

a reply to: rickymouse

Point accepted.

All I can say to avatar choice is...

"I believe in a supreme being, yeah. But He's an all-loving God." - Tom Araya

The lead singer of this song:



They sorta contradict.

While I'm not a devout Catholic, I will say "Satan" as I understand it, is interchangeable with bad luck. It is a metaphor for an indifferent randomly occuring kill-joy that can be applied any time something keeps you 'trampled under foot'. As a deist (non-anthropomorphic, non-interacting), I don't feel it's personalized or any type of direct interaction, but just interpreted that way. Sort of a satan of two words, "sh*t happens".

But it's still a fixture of screwed adversity. The inverse of good luck. Which is the same wheel churning, only with a different result to the person interacting with it. When it lifts you up they call it God.

Likewise, if a person does something that has destructive impacts on others or the world, it's "evil", anything with a neutral or constructive impact is on the "good" end. It either does nothing, which is good, or benefits prosperity overall, which is even better. Like the basis of moral and legal doctrine is rooted in this benefit/detriment metric.

To not totally drift my interest is not killing religion or god, but bad science. Theological science pages that warp evidence to fit narratives. Or outright lie. Or refuse empirical consensus because it contradicts their preconceived beliefs.

The merging of science and religion can't be done if dont apply the scientific method to your own religion's claims...

originally posted by: Myhandle
a reply to: komangwidiatmika

Very cool! And it really is a wooden structure!
The Why Files just did a show on Noah’s Ark and they destroyed Ron Wyatt’s reputation, but I don’t think they mentioned this finding

I think Ron Wyatt destroyed Ron Wyatt's reputation.

originally posted by: FarmerSimulation
THE Sphynx shows evidence of surviving 2 floods.

The Sphinx would not have survived a flood that was 2 miles over it's head, which is what Noahs Flood would have been. So no, it may have survived local Nile floods over the years, but not NOAHS flood.

I'll tell you what survived in Egypt .... ALL OF EGYPT ... including all the people, their culture, their language, and their pagan gods. If the people of Egypt were offspring from Noah, they would have brought their own culture, their own language, and their own God. There was no break in the culture, language, pagan gods, and their was no decide in population.

IT DID NOT HAPPEN.

The Noahs Ark flood was supposedly approximately 2345 B.C. The following Links give the basics of each of the Ancient Egyptian Dynasties of that era and their approximate time periods. No break in their cultures during the alleged Noahs Ark time period. Not before and not afterwards either. Plenty of people and entire 'dynasties' during a time when only a handful of people speaking the language of Noah were supposedly on the planet. Oh ... and the artifacts are all in the same language so the 'the world all spoke one language before the Tower of Babel' is proven false too, but that's the topic for another thread.

The Fourth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt

2613 BC–ca. 2494 BC - The Fourth Dynasty of ancient Egypt (notated Dynasty IV) is characterized as a "golden age" of the Old Kingdom of Egypt. Dynasty IV lasted from c. 2613 to 2494 BC.[1] It was a time of peace and prosperity as well as one during which trade with other countries is documented.

The Fifth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt

The Fifth Dynasty pharaohs reigned for approximately 150 years, from the early 25th century BC until the mid 24th century BC.

The Sixth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt

2345 BC–c. 2181 BC - The Sixth Dynasty of ancient Egypt (notated Dynasty VI), along with the Third, Fourth and Fifth Dynasty, constitutes the Old Kingdom of Dynastic Egypt.

The Seventh Dynasty of Ancient Egypt

 2181 BC

The Eighth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt

2181 BC–ca. 2160 BC - The Eighth Dynasty of ancient Egypt (Dynasty VIII) is a poorly known and short-lived line of pharaohs reigning in rapid succession in the early 22nd century BC, likely with their seat of power in Memphis.

The Ninth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt

2160 BC–c. 2130 BC - The Ninth Dynasty of ancient Egypt (Dynasty IX) is often combined with the 7th, 8th, 10th and early 11th Dynasties under the group title First Intermediate Period.

The Tenth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt

2130 BC–ca. 2040 BC - The Tenth Dynasty of ancient Egypt (Dynasty X) is often combined with the 7th, 8th, 9th and early 11th Dynasties under the group title First Intermediate Period

Egypts 11th Dynasty

The Eleventh Dynasty of ancient Egypt (notated Dynasty XI; c. 2150 BC – c. 1991 BC) is a well-attested group of rulers. Its earlier members before Pharaoh Mentuhotep II are grouped with the four preceding dynasties to form the First Intermediate Period, whereas the later members are considered part of the Middle Kingdom. They all ruled from Thebes in Upper Egypt.

The Twelfth Dynasy of Ancient Egypt

The chronology of the Twelfth Dynasty is the most stable of any period before the New Kingdom. The Turin Royal Canon gives 213 years (1991–1778 BC). [/quote

thats a very good answer and gives food for thought, thank you for sharing a reply to: Degradation33

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: BukkaWukka
a reply to: FlyersFan

Here is some evidence that the flood happened.
www.astirinch.com...

No. That's really bad and false. There was no 'bottleneck' down to 8 humans in 2400BC. DNA diversity proves this.

Basics of Haplogroups - read here

AND .... China, Egypt and India all have unbroken histories during this time. They THRIVED. Their populations flourished before, during and after the 2400BC time period of the alleged flood. We have their histories. We have their artifacts. Their cultures flourished and grew. AND they kept their pagan gods and native languages all through this time, which would not have happened if they were all descended from Noah.

THERE WAS NO FLOOD AS THE BIBLE CLAIMS.

Very strange claims indeed and contrary to everything we know so far. How is it possible the population of the planet to have been reduced so dramatically when there are historical records all over the world showing the exact opposite.

originally posted by: Schmoe3755

originally posted by: Myhandle
a reply to: komangwidiatmika

Very cool! And it really is a wooden structure!
The Why Files just did a show on Noah’s Ark and they destroyed Ron Wyatt’s reputation, but I don’t think they mentioned this finding

I think Ron Wyatt destroyed Ron Wyatt's reputation.

This just comes off as a snarky way of saying “I listen to con-men more than you”.

a reply to: Fortrean

Very strange claims indeed and contrary to everything we know so far. How is it possible the population of the planet to have been reduced so dramatically when there are historical records all over the world showing the exact opposite.

Have you every heard of the Toba Catastrophe Theory?

Between 75,000 and 70,000 years ago The LARGEST QUATERNARY supervolcano went off in an eruption that is speculated to have caused a population bottleneck in hominid population in the resulting 5-10 year volcanic winter.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Toba eruption has been linked to a genetic bottleneck in human evolution about 70,000 years ago; it is hypothesized that the eruption resulted in a severe reduction in the size of the total human population due to the effects of the eruption on the global climate. According to the genetic bottleneck theory, between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, human populations sharply decreased to 3,000–10,000 surviving individuals. It is supported by some genetic evidence suggesting that today's humans are descended from a very small population of between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs that existed about 70,000 years ago

It is speculated survivors existed mostly in Africa.

The exact geographic distribution of anatomically modern human populations at the time of the eruption is not known, and surviving populations may have lived in Africa and subsequently migrated to other parts of the world. Analyses of mitochondrial DNA have estimated that the major migration from Africa occurred 60,000–70,000 years ago, consistent with dating of the Toba eruption to around 75,000 years ago.

In subsequent years of recovery Homo sapien, that couldn't find the other remaining humans, interbred all other hominid species out of existence. Like Neanderthal, Denisovan, even Flores Man. They also had small populations survive. Natural eugenics for the supreme hominid after that.

One could argue we are fascist by default.

This video is worth posting again too.



With the source of the MRCA dating.

isogg.org...

a reply to: FlyersFan
Amazing there is zero overlap in dynasties in your depiction with each Dynasty starting where the other ends.
Like presidencies and perfect chronology to make it easy for dating purposes and fair power sharing.

Fact is most of those dynasties overlapped and some ran congruently.

James points out that “there are good reasons for rejecting the whole concept of Sothic dating as it was applied by the earlier Egyptologists, simply on the grounds that it did not make allowance for any calendrical adjustments. It is assumed that the Egyptians allowed the civil calendar and the seasonal cycle, to which the lunar-religious calendar was tied, to progress further and further out of alignment” (p. 227). There is no evidence to support this. In fact, we know from “the much better documented (calendrically speaking) Hellenistic and Roman periods [of Egyptian history] that several major reforms were put into effect within the space of only three centuries” (p. 228). If the Egyptians were willing to revise the calendar during this period, who is to say that they did not revise it at other periods as well?

The 20th century will go down as an era of tremendous error as regards the history and chronology of the ancient world. The consensus chronology, used by secular scholars and Christian scholars alike, is built on fiction, creates huge problems with the history of every culture of the ancient world, and is collapsing today.

theopolisinstitute.com...

Just about every other culture, Greek or Roman disagrees with Egyption timeliness and end up with 300-400 dark periods in their history to make Egyptology fit.
And with current anthropology we can begin to finally correct Egyptian timeliness.
Or not, as Flyerfans demands.

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: Fortrean

Very strange claims indeed and contrary to everything we know so far. How is it possible the population of the planet to have been reduced so dramatically when there are historical records all over the world showing the exact opposite.

Have you every heard of the Toba Catastrophe Theory?

Between 75,000 and 70,000 years ago The LARGEST QUATERNARY supervolcano went off in an eruption that is speculated to have caused a population bottleneck in hominid population in the resulting 5-10 year volcanic winter.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

The Toba eruption has been linked to a genetic bottleneck in human evolution about 70,000 years ago; it is hypothesized that the eruption resulted in a severe reduction in the size of the total human population due to the effects of the eruption on the global climate. According to the genetic bottleneck theory, between 50,000 and 100,000 years ago, human populations sharply decreased to 3,000–10,000 surviving individuals. It is supported by some genetic evidence suggesting that today's humans are descended from a very small population of between 1,000 and 10,000 breeding pairs that existed about 70,000 years ago

It is speculated survivors existed mostly in Africa.

The exact geographic distribution of anatomically modern human populations at the time of the eruption is not known, and surviving populations may have lived in Africa and subsequently migrated to other parts of the world. Analyses of mitochondrial DNA have estimated that the major migration from Africa occurred 60,000–70,000 years ago, consistent with dating of the Toba eruption to around 75,000 years ago.

In subsequent years of recovery Homo sapien, that couldn't find the other remaining humans, interbred all other hominid species out of existence. Like Neanderthal, Denisovan, even Flores Man. They also had small populations survive. Natural eugenics for the supreme hominid after that.

One could argue we are fascist by default.

This video is worth posting again too.

With the source of the MRCA dating.

isogg.org...

I ve heard it but it is a hypothesis and not to be taken for granted. It allegedly happened long time before the alleged great biblical flood.

originally posted by: FarmerSimulation
theopolisinstitute.com...

WOW that was really dumb. No .. there is no 'egypt problem'. The timeline is just fine. The archaeologists and historians and scientists are right ... and you young-earth enthusiasts are just plain wrong.

1 - There is an unbroken history, culture, language, and religion in Egypt before, during, and after the flood time line. The historical evidence is rock solid.

2 - The Greek or Roman timelines do NOT disagree with the Egyptian ones.

3 - If the people of Egypt were wiped out, and then replaced by offspring of Noah ... they would be speaking the language of NOAH and not EGYPTIAN. Their writings would be the language of NOAH and not EGYPTIAN. Their religion would be the religion of NOAH and not the pagan gods of the EGYPTIANS.

Life continued on uninterrupted in Egypt in 2400BC.
There is no 'Egypt problem' as your source falsely claims.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: FarmerSimulation
theopolisinstitute.com...

WOW that was really dumb. No .. there is no 'egypt problem'. The timeline is just fine. The archaeologists and historians and scientists are right ... and you young-earth enthusiasts are just plain wrong.

1 - There is an unbroken history, culture, language, and religion in Egypt before, during, and after the flood time line. The historical evidence is rock solid.

2 - The Greek or Roman timelines do NOT disagree with the Egyptian ones.



3 - If the people of Egypt were wiped out, and then replaced by offspring of Noah ... they would be speaking the language of NOAH and not EGYPTIAN. Their writings would be the language of NOAH and not EGYPTIAN. Their religion would be the religion of NOAH and not the pagan gods of the EGYPTIANS.

Life continued on uninterrupted in Egypt in 2400BC.
There is no 'Egypt problem' as your source falsely claims.

Ham populated Egypt.
Hyksos civilized it bringing in the domestication of livestock and horses and the chariot.
Modern anthropology is destroying your ancient hypothesis.
And your timeliness create a 300-400 year dark period in bothe Rome and Greek history trying to conform to Egypt.

And that matters very little making it fact or not just because you call it stupid just because it differs.

originally posted by: FarmerSimulation

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: FarmerSimulation
theopolisinstitute.com...

WOW that was really dumb. No .. there is no 'egypt problem'. The timeline is just fine. The archaeologists and historians and scientists are right ... and you young-earth enthusiasts are just plain wrong.

1 - There is an unbroken history, culture, language, and religion in Egypt before, during, and after the flood time line. The historical evidence is rock solid.

2 - The Greek or Roman timelines do NOT disagree with the Egyptian ones.



3 - If the people of Egypt were wiped out, and then replaced by offspring of Noah ... they would be speaking the language of NOAH and not EGYPTIAN. Their writings would be the language of NOAH and not EGYPTIAN. Their religion would be the religion of NOAH and not the pagan gods of the EGYPTIANS.

Life continued on uninterrupted in Egypt in 2400BC.
There is no 'Egypt problem' as your source falsely claims.

Ham populated Egypt.
Hyksos civilized it bringing in the domestication of livestock and horses and the chariot.
Modern anthropology is destroying your ancient hypothesis.
And your timeliness create a 300-400 year dark period in bothe Rome and Greek history trying to conform to Egypt.

And that matters very little making it fact or not just because you call it stupid just because it differs.

Modern anthropology, archeology, and science in general, have found no evidence so far of Noah's Ark and no evidence of the flood described in thr bible.