Killings of Palestinian children are soaring in the West Bank.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Maybe it has to do with the fact that Netanyahu has said that returning the hostages won't stop this.

Hamas offered a ceasefire that would see the hostages returned and it was rejected.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
Hamas offered a ceasefire that would see the hostages returned and it was rejected.

... because Israel would have to stop it's offensive against Hamas for good.
And Israel can't leave Hamas intact. Hamas has said it won't stop attacking Israel, ever.

a reply to: FlyersFan

So the claim that the hostages just need to be returned and the attacks on Gaza will stop is false.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
So the claim that the hostages just need to be returned and the attacks on Gaza will stop is false.

Yes and no ...

The hostages need to be returned AND Hamas needs to lay down it's arms for a complete end.
That's what has been the position of Israel the whole time, as far as I know.
A temporary cease fire can happen if the hostages are returned. Temporary.

a reply to: FlyersFan

The ceasefire that was offered was temporary. I believe it was six weeks.

So far, more hostages have been killed by Israel than Hamas.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
So far, more hostages have been killed by Israel than Hamas.

Supposedly. That's the claim of Hamas.
We will never really know.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I notice you didn't address the fact that Israel turned down a temporary ceasefire that would have seen the hostages returned.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
I notice you didn't address the fact that Israel turned down a temporary ceasefire that would have seen the hostages returned.

From what I read, both Israel and Hamas turned it down.
There were elements in it that both parties did not agree with.
And they both disavowed what Biden said about a temporary ceasefire for/by Ramadan.

a reply to: FlyersFan

The proposed ceasefire I'm referring to was from months ago. Not the current one.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
The proposed ceasefire in referring to was from months ago. Not the current one.

Oh okay.

But you get the same response. Whatever was in the proposed ceasefire was unacceptable to Israel. There have been a lot worked on in the news so I'm not sure which you are referring to. From what I remember of the last one Hamas offered some of the hostages back but Israel would have to pull out of Gaza, stop the war, and release ALL 'palestinian' prisoners out of the jails. That's thousands of them for crimes anywhere from terrorism to rape to firebombing to murder etc etc. So Israel said that was unacceptable.

That's what I remember from that one. But there have been multiple talks about multiple ceasefire deals so I"m not sure if that's the one you are referring to or not.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: FlyersFan

So the claim that the hostages just need to be returned and the attacks on Gaza will stop is false.

You got this completely backwards it was Hamas that refused the deal. Well they have until the 10th to decide. However they could have already agreed and it would be started. So I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Hamas to do the right thing.

apnews.com...

a reply to: dragonridr

Interesting .... so Israel has to agree to a six week ceasefire and all they get is this ...

The Israelis “have more or less accepted” the proposal, which includes the six-week cease-fire as well as the release by Hamas of hostages considered vulnerable, which includes the sick, the wounded, the elderly and women, said the official.

Hamas still holds onto hostages and still keeps the war going.

Hamas could end this .... release ALL the hostages and lay down the arms.

But they don't.

a reply to: dragonridr

I'm not referring to that proposal.

Egyptian truck driver who were delivering aid to Gaza warn other drivers not to go there because the palestinians attack , destroy truck etc...or even kill driver.

Egyptian truck driver warns other truck drivers not to volunteer to drive humanitarian aid into Gaza as Egyptian truck drivers bringing humanitarian aid are routinely attacked. One was severely beaten up after being dragged out of his truck a few days ago


BREAKING: Palestinians cause an Egyptian humanitarian aid truck to crash and kill the driver before looting his truck

An Egyptian truck carrying aid entered Gaza and was attacked, resulting in the destruction of the vehicle. In his words: "They deserve everything that happens to them in Gaza because they are not human and they attack those who want to help them."

They were delivering aid to Gazans but being killed .....let that sink in

a reply to: FlyersFan

Those etc's are carrying a lot of weight considering Israeli law allows Palestinians to be detained indefinitely without charging them with anything.

a reply to: dragonridr

Where in your source does it say that the ceasefire was rejected by Hamas? I read it completely but they don't say anything about:

was Hamas that refused the deal.

The Israelis “have more or less accepted” the proposal

“Right now, the ball is in the court of Hamas and we are continuing to push this as hard as we possibly can,”

Officials from Israel and from Hamas did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

The European Union’s diplomatic service said many of the hundreds of Palestinians killed or wounded in the chaos surrounding an aid convoy on Thursday were hit by Israeli army fire and urged an international investigation. It said responsibility for the crisis lay with “restrictions imposed by the Israeli army and obstructions by violent extremist(s) to the supply of humanitarian aid.”

apnews.com...

The fact of the convoy may harm the matter, but at the moment there is no such information that they rejected anything, perhaps they will or perhaps not, but your source does not indicate it.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
Those etc's are carrying a lot of weight considering Israeli law allows Palestinians to be detained indefinitely without charging them with anything.

I said etc etc because I wasn't going to go through a laundry list of crimes those people committed. Hamas apologists like to claim that there are thousands of school age little children in Israeli jails for throwing rocks at IDF soldiers. But that's not true. The fact is that the people in Israeli jails are those that firebombed, murdered, attempted murder, attacked Israelis and soldiers, raped, and more. They are there of their own fault and for doing bad things.

Hamas wanted Israel to release thousands and thousands of these people - murderers, firebombers, terrorists, rapists, - emptying the jails. In addition, Hamas wanted Israel to leave Gaza, and that Hamas would remain in tact, armed and promising to destroy Israel. So Israel said NO. Hamas was unreasonable in their negotiations.

originally posted by: dragonridr
You got this completely backwards it was Hamas that refused the deal.

This latest one Israel has agreed to. Hamas hasn't said yet.

The one before that, both Israel and Hamas rejected and they both said they didn't know what the hell Biden was talking about.

There have been many back and forths so I think you might be confused.
Or I could be confused and be getting it backwards. Whatever.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: dragonridr

I'm not referring to that proposal.

Of course you weren't that's only the latest agreement. Which Hamas has yet to agree to. Seems to me Hamas should jump at the chance to get 6 weeks so aid can be brought in. Egypt is already refusing further shipments do to the attack on their drivers.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: dragonridr
You got this completely backwards it was Hamas that refused the deal.

This latest one Israel has agreed to. Hamas hasn't said yet.

The one before that, both Israel and Hamas rejected and they both said they didn't know what the hell Biden was talking about.

There have been many back and forths so I think you might be confused.
Or I could be confused and be getting it backwards. Whatever.

Correct both sides refused the sticking point for Hamas was they wanted to stop the war completely and Israel said they are unwilling to do that as long as Hamas is in power.

Israel will only agree to a cease fire and is not willing to stop this war until Hamas surrenders or wiped out.

Hamas really didn't understand what they were starting when they attacked Jewish citizens took this into all new territory