The Pope who likes abortions is dead set against Freemasonry

www.foxnews.com...

The Vatican's Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) has reaffirmed the Catholic Church's teachings that laity or clerics participating in Freemasonry are in "a state of grave sin."

The DDF released the Nov. 13 document to the public with the signatures of Pope Francis and the DDF Prefect Cardinal Victor Fernández, urging the faithful not to participate in or affiliate with Freemasonry groups.

"On the doctrinal level, it should be remembered that active membership in Freemasonry by a member of the faithful is forbidden because of the irreconcilability between Catholic doctrine and Freemasonry," the document reads, citing the 1983 "Declaration on Masonic Associations" by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who would go on to become Pope Benedict XVI.

As a mason, and a confirmed Catholic, I find this to be really pathetic in 2023. I get a conepiracy person won't grasp what freemaonry is without being one, they have deep beliefs that don't need reality to confrim anything. I know this, because I joined to find out if the stories were true. They weren't. But for the Leader of the Roman Catholic church to be this daft in 2023 about Freemasonry is wrong. And to claim in the next breath claim that Abortion is A-OK with the Catholic faith shows an ignorance once thought unfathomable.

This isn't to get into the Abortion argument, I think it's murder, but it's not my place to tell anyone what to do with their body. That's between them and God. But to claim that just becasue you don't understand something, that it's evil, is ignorant. Almost like none of us know the reason a person might wish to have an abortion. Freemasonry is the teaching of alegorical lessons rooted in the Bible. In a very basic sense it's many ways to re-affirm the golden rule. It admonishes the mason to strive to be not just a good person, but a better person. Better than whom? Better than yourself. Not quite the baby eating virgin sacrificing cult it's cracked up to be in some avenues.

I don't go to Catholic Church, haven't in many years. And I will assume I'm ex-communicated, no worries there. I only take issue with the idea that the decision is based on ignorance, and not fact. I've been a mason since 2007, was maser of my lodge in 2013, and have been an active member of the Scottish Rite since 2008. Everything I have expirienced in Freemsonry has been good, wholesome, and Godly. Nothing even remotely close to anything nefarious. And I was looking for exactly that.

Ahh, didn't know you were a mason.

I similarly joined for a while a couple of decades back from being drinking buddies with the local lodge master - theyre strannge comments from the pope as our lodge/pledge was about having/been open to belief in a higher power (not necssarilly the Biblical god) and doing your best to help out the least fortunate in the local area.

a reply to: network dude

Uhmmm yes I'm neither, but as far as I'm aware the Vatican never had good ties with the masons, at least not openly.

Eat that Christian tolerance...

a reply to: network dude

And to claim in the next breath claim that Abortion is A-OK with the Catholic faith shows an ignorance once thought unfathomable.

Got a link for that as I am in the process of annulling my 1st marriage and her abortion was one of the reasons.

a reply to: network dude

You can't fool us. We know you pray to Baphomet and eat the babies you sacrifice to Moloch. Evil ...evil I tells ya.

Seriously, I understand why the Catholic and Protestant church say you can't be a Christian and a Mason too. The Masons require a belief in a higher power, not necessarily the Christian God. It comes down to Christian monotheism vs perceived masonic polytheism, which puts masonry at odds with the church.

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: network dude

And to claim in the next breath claim that Abortion is A-OK with the Catholic faith shows an ignorance once thought unfathomable.

Got a link for that as I am in the process of annulling my 1st marriage and her abortion was one of the reasons.

www.reuters.com...

a reply to: Klassified

The belief in a higher power is for inclusivity. I know you get this, but to explain it to others, the belief in a higher power doesn't have to be Jesus Christ. It can be whatever the person thinks, Nature, God, An Alien named Bob, it doesn't matter. Only that the member profess a belief in something larger than himself. As Freemasonry isn't a religion, it doens't try to replace anyone's religion. And as long as everyone believes in a higher power, then when they take an oath to that power, it has the potention to be more binding than just an oath to nothing.

Freemasonry brings men of different faiths together to help those in their community. But the real secret is in the gravy. So when we cook the....you know....evening meal, it's palatable.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Klassified



Freemasonry brings men of different faiths together to help those in their community. But the real secret is in the gravy. So when we cook the....you know....evening meal, it's palatable.

And this is where I miss AM, he has the best lodge recipes.

a reply to: network dude

It makes sense, but add in the sordid history, mystery, and secrecy perceived by the public at large and have a recipe for conspiracies, whatever the truth may be.

Dorkus me removed my previous post instead of what I wanted to do, so now I have to put it back best I can for...reasons.

a reply to: network dude

This is from Ratzinger's time, I seriously doubt that he was pro abortion being from the Inquisition and all.
I mean sure against Freemasonry as a matter of principle but pro abortion?

Don't laugh but I have wondered if it is not also more a rivalry between systems, like capitalism vs communism than anything really profoundly spiritual?

a reply to: FurPerson

Freemasonry isn't "profoundly spiritual" in it's teachings, but the teachings are based on Bible references.
I think the disconnect exists due to the secrecy aspect. If it's a secret, then it must be bad. But the Knights of Columbus are different due to reasons.

Freemasonry exists as an addition to one's faith, not in conflict with it. But I also understand theconspiracy side of it, becasue you can't really know, unless you are one, and conspriacy folk usually don't just take someone's word for it.

a reply to: network dude

I think it is the organisation to be frank. How it is organised literally, that makes you folks so intimidating to the very detached authoritarian structure the Catholic Church has. A body where every cell kind of has the same structure (you) vs the long ways everything has to take through the church from bottom to top and vice versa.

I might be wrong, just a thought, because as you said:

Freemasonry isn't "profoundly spiritual" in it's teachings, but the teachings are based on Bible references.

obviously can't be 'it'

a reply to: network dude

Both the catholic church and Freemasons are controlled by the same hands..

No real opposition

but on a personal level how do you justify worshiping a Lutheranism and Christianity..

a reply to: network dude

The Protestant Christian church has some very serious issues with masonry and for good reason
The Catholic Church has its reasons as well and pretty sure it’s linked to financial issues many years ago
Reading your comments re your Christian “faith”, not sure it’s fair to classify yourself as a Christian, or suggest you understand the issue between the church and masonry, just your feelings.

www.thegospelcoalition.org...
Not to difficult to research Christian issues with masonry if it was important to you

What I find interesting is the Masons are a known secret society and you think that you know all the secrets, sounds a bit gullible

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: network dude

Both the catholic church and Freemasons are controlled by the same hands..

No real opposition

but on a personal level how do you justify worshiping a Lutheranism and Christianity..

How long have you been a freemason? Once I understand your knowldge of the craft, I can better understand where your idea that our teachings come from the Bible, and our faith is our own, somehow equal "worshiping" 'Lutheranism'. I am not farmiliar with that term. I was Catholic, not Luthern, so I am not qualified to speak on that apsect of religion.

a reply to: network dude

Since when is the pope pro abortion?

originally posted by: Creaky
a reply to: network dude

The Protestant Christian church has some very serious issues with masonry and for good reason
The Catholic Church has its reasons as well and pretty sure it’s linked to financial issues many years ago
Reading your comments re your Christian “faith”, not sure it’s fair to classify yourself as a Christian, or suggest you understand the issue between the church and masonry, just your feelings.

www.thegospelcoalition.org...
Not to difficult to research Christian issues with masonry if it was important to you

What I find interesting is the Masons are a known secret society and you think that you know all the secrets, sounds a bit gullible

the issues with the Church and Freemasonry stem from the greed of Pope Clement and King Philip the Fair. Both wanted the weath of the Templars, and demonized them and masonry in order to turn the public against them due to lies.

But while we do hold secrets, we don't claim to know all of them, just the one's we teach. And they aren't really secret, they are all in the Bible. You just have to know where to look. it would be gulible to believe what other people who have never been masons say about masonry.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: network dude

Since when is the pope pro abortion?

where he admonishes bishops for denying communion due to abortion beliefs, but doesn't hold the same beliefs with regard to Freemasonry. I did have his position wrong based on previous reports.

He has adopted a progressive political stance, which is not what you would expect a spiritual leader to have. Politics should not be part of the Church. They are supposed to be a guide to God.

a reply to: network dude

No
No you don’t, you don’t know the Masons secrets, just think you do
Plenty of Freemasons have turned to Christ and left the mason faith
If you are interested or care, it’s your choice to research

Be a mason, that’s great, just seems like you have a very shallow understanding of the issues between the Christian church and masonry

Just because you have a bible and bible story’s, may even believe them, that doesn’t make you a christian or Christian organisation

originally posted by: Creaky
a reply to: network dude

No
No you don’t, you don’t know the Masons secrets, just think you do
Plenty of Freemasons have turned to Christ and left the mason faith
If you are interested or care, it’s your choice to research

Be a mason, that’s great, just seems like you have a very shallow understanding of the issues between the Christian church and masonry

Just because you have a bible and bible story’s, may even believe them, that doesn’t make you a christian or Christian organisation

first off, how long have you been a mason?

Secondly, rather than preach as if you are arroganty smarter than everyone here, why not educate us with the truth. With links and facts and stuff.

eta:
what in Freemasonry is directly in conflict with the Christian faith? that should be an easy one based on your post.