Labour loses Oxford council majority after ninth Gaza resignation

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4
In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war destruction.

You and Gandi are like peas in a pod, but that doesn't change the nature of reality in the world. So let's say Israel stands down and demands all Hamas around the world to be put in prison and stand trial for crimes against humanity.

How would that play out? It's kind of like the whole situation where everyone has an opinion but no one is willing to help the situation and all they do is blame the Jews for everything when the reality is no one wants them.

I can tell you how that all would play out...in 6 months Hamas would launch another few 1000 missiles at Israel right back on track as they always been, and of course, people will be bitching Israel is to blame still.

I will reply to you again

In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war and destruction, I can't share their morality and views.

Peace can be achieved finally with the help of the US, the other Arab countries, and the all other major forces in the area. Two state solution with the process not going to be derailed by either side. Anything else is a cycle of violence and leads nowhere. You know this well I think.

Leave Gandi our of this.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4
In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war destruction.

You and Gandi are like peas in a pod, but that doesn't change the nature of reality in the world. So let's say Israel stands down and demands all Hamas around the world to be put in prison and stand trial for crimes against humanity.

How would that play out? It's kind of like the whole situation where everyone has an opinion but no one is willing to help the situation and all they do is blame the Jews for everything when the reality is no one wants them.

I can tell you how that all would play out...in 6 months Hamas would launch another few 1000 missiles at Israel right back on track as they always been, and of course, people will be bitching Israel is to blame still.

I will reply to you again

In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war and destruction, I can't share their morality and views.

Peace can be achieved finally with the help of the US, the other Arab countries, and the all other major forces in the area. Two state solution with the process not going to be derailed by either side. Anything else is a cycle of violence and leads nowhere. You know this well I think.

Leave Gandi our of this.

The two-state solution was proposed and agreed to a long time ago but Israel stayed there and occupied the land and created an open air prison. I really don't see Hamas or the Palestinian people believing another two-state agreement will actually be honored this time. So what solution is left to both sides when that solution is off the table?

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: Leviathan4
www.bbc.co.uk...

Labour has lost its majority of Oxford City Council after a ninth councillor resigned from the party.

Councillor Barbara Coyne is the latest to leave in protest against Labour's stance on the war in Gaza.

The Headington Hill & Northway councillor's exit means Labour is now left with 23 elected representatives, with 25 in opposition.

The eight who have previously stepped down say Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer needs to call for a ceasefire.

So Labour had 32 elected representatives and an overall majority. After the resignations Labour has 23 elected representatives with 25 elected representatives in the opposition. The article didn't specify how many representatives the other political parties have at the moment. The councillors resigned over the decision by the Labour Leader not to call for an immediate ceasefire.


Councillor Barbara Coyne is the ninth councillor to resign and she said the following

"The Labour leadership continues to issue hollow statements as we watch a genocide unfold before our eyes is, in my view, unconscionable.

I have resigned from the party because I can no longer stand with a leadership that claims to value international law, human rights and equality, but will not condemn clear violations of these by Israel, and call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.

Self-defence does not justify crimes against humanity; no violence against civilians should be condoned

And I very much agree with councillor Barbara Coyne as I said on many occasions before that self defence is not an excuse for the mass killings of innocent civilians and for committing war crimes and crimes against humanity.



In addition...

www.bbc.co.uk...

Labour: Burnley councillors quit party over Israel-Gaza ceasefire stance

A council leader and 10 councillors have quit the Labour Party over Sir Keir Starmer's decision not to push for a ceasefire in Gaza.

Burnley Council leader Afrasiab Anwar, who had called for the Labour leader to resign over the issue, is among those to leave the party.

In a statement, the councillors said their memberships were "untenable"

Absolutely no ceasefire until hostages are released, hamas pays for their past and present war crimes they continue to perpetrate daily and hamas is eradicated.

They’re such loving people. Watch this vid below, these are the sickest most evil people on the planet, F them and their cries for ceasefire! This is what happens when you’re stupid enough to elect a terrorist group to represent you. ZERO F’s given to Gaza😠😠😠
www.facebook.com...

Problem with this is you eradicate the civilians instead of Hamas. Unless you think all these killed are from Hamas but in reality they are innocent civilians, mostly women and children. Yes they should release the hostages but that won't stop the mass killings of civilians.

Go cry me a river sympathizer. Don’t eff’n care, they’re harboring terrorist that want Israeli’s dead at any cost and they’re are doing NOTHING to stop the terrorist that they elected. You need to seriously wake the f up as to what’s going on and what will continue to happen if they’re not eliminated.

You don’t like innocent civilians dying? Maybe if the Palestinian’s would stop using their civilians as human shields, ya know..one of those war crimes you keep whining about, this wouldn’t be happening.

Why don’t they take refuge in other surrounding country’s????? Oh yeah… it’s because they’re scum and have created chaos and terror cells in EVERY country they’ve ever been allowed into. Do some research and get back with us. They’re hateful people, just look at the most hateful people in US congress, they’re Palestinian and Muslim that dumbass Americans voted into office.

So anyway really sick of your repeated lies and propaganda that you’ve been spamming for days on end here. As are most members. Get a life.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4
In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war destruction.

You and Gandi are like peas in a pod, but that doesn't change the nature of reality in the world. So let's say Israel stands down and demands all Hamas around the world to be put in prison and stand trial for crimes against humanity.

How would that play out? It's kind of like the whole situation where everyone has an opinion but no one is willing to help the situation and all they do is blame the Jews for everything when the reality is no one wants them.

I can tell you how that all would play out...in 6 months Hamas would launch another few 1000 missiles at Israel right back on track as they always been, and of course, people will be bitching Israel is to blame still.

I will reply to you again

In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war and destruction, I can't share their morality and views.

Peace can be achieved finally with the help of the US, the other Arab countries, and the all other major forces in the area. Two state solution with the process not going to be derailed by either side. Anything else is a cycle of violence and leads nowhere. You know this well I think.

Leave Gandi our of this.

The two-state solution was proposed and agreed to a long time ago but Israel stayed there and occupied the land and created an open air prison. I really don't see Hamas or the Palestinian people believing another two-state agreement will actually be honored this time. So what solution is left to both sides when that solution is off the table?

I think that if the US & Allies and the rest of the Arab World push the two sides and provide the necessary guarantees the problem will be solved sooner or later. Everything else leads an endless cycle of violence.

Some of the members who try to argue in favour of war and destruction have argued Hamas needs to be eliminated for peace to exist but they haven't realised what the issues are when you kill thousands of innocent civilians and the remaining Palestinians who are now much more likely to fall into the hands of Hamas (or whatever comes after they've gone) after experienced the deaths of relatives and friends.Not to mention that many of them are probably outside Gaza.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4
In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war destruction.

You and Gandi are like peas in a pod, but that doesn't change the nature of reality in the world. So let's say Israel stands down and demands all Hamas around the world to be put in prison and stand trial for crimes against humanity.

How would that play out? It's kind of like the whole situation where everyone has an opinion but no one is willing to help the situation and all they do is blame the Jews for everything when the reality is no one wants them.

I can tell you how that all would play out...in 6 months Hamas would launch another few 1000 missiles at Israel right back on track as they always been, and of course, people will be bitching Israel is to blame still.

I will reply to you again

In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war and destruction, I can't share their morality and views.

Peace can be achieved finally with the help of the US, the other Arab countries, and the all other major forces in the area. Two state solution with the process not going to be derailed by either side. Anything else is a cycle of violence and leads nowhere. You know this well I think.

Leave Gandi our of this.

The two-state solution was proposed and agreed to a long time ago but Israel stayed there and occupied the land and created an open air prison. I really don't see Hamas or the Palestinian people believing another two-state agreement will actually be honored this time. So what solution is left to both sides when that solution is off the table?

More lies from you eh? Palestinian’s have always rejected the two state proposal. Do you not research the crap you spam here?

The UN General Assembly approved the two-state solution on November 29, 1947. The area allocated for the Arab state was larger than the modern-day West Bank and Gaza Strip. The area allocated for the Jewish state was smaller than modern-day Israel. The Jews enthusiastically accepted the UN’s November 29, 1947, offer of two states, celebrating by dancing in the streets of Tel Aviv. The Palestinian Arabs, however, flatly rejected the two-state solution and responded by launching a bloody war. In February 1948 the UN’s Palestine Commission reported to the Security Council that “powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.”

www.independent.com...

Palestinians Still Aren’t Willing to Compromise Every leader has rejected every offer of statehood, lest they have to accept a permanent Jewish state, Israel, in any form.

Few still support a two-state solution. Ironically, while some attribute Palestinian rejection of Trump’s plan to its new limits on the traditional two-state paradigm, most Palestinian respondents now reject that model as well. Asked to choose “the top Palestinian national priority during the coming five years,” two-thirds (66%) of West Bankers in this poll pick “regaining all of historical Palestine for the Palestinians”; a mere 14% choose “ending the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza,

www.wsj.com...

a reply to: NeonKnights

So anyway really sick of your repeated lies and propaganda that you’ve been spamming for days on end here. As are most members. Get a life.

A very good sign that you have lost this argument. But I am happy to repeat the truth and realities of war no matter how you feel about this.

The dehumanisation attempts of an entire nation shows precisely the level and quality of arguments you have. You're referring to Palestinians as scums and Americans as 'dumbass'.

You can't hold a proper conversation or even to address the issue of the thread on why a hood number of councillors have decided to quit. Maybe because they don't want innocent people to get killed?

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4
In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war destruction.

You and Gandi are like peas in a pod, but that doesn't change the nature of reality in the world. So let's say Israel stands down and demands all Hamas around the world to be put in prison and stand trial for crimes against humanity.

How would that play out? It's kind of like the whole situation where everyone has an opinion but no one is willing to help the situation and all they do is blame the Jews for everything when the reality is no one wants them.

I can tell you how that all would play out...in 6 months Hamas would launch another few 1000 missiles at Israel right back on track as they always been, and of course, people will be bitching Israel is to blame still.

I will reply to you again

In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war and destruction, I can't share their morality and views.

Peace can be achieved finally with the help of the US, the other Arab countries, and the all other major forces in the area. Two state solution with the process not going to be derailed by either side. Anything else is a cycle of violence and leads nowhere. You know this well I think.

Leave Gandi our of this.

The two-state solution was proposed and agreed to a long time ago but Israel stayed there and occupied the land and created an open air prison. I really don't see Hamas or the Palestinian people believing another two-state agreement will actually be honored this time. So what solution is left to both sides when that solution is off the table?

I think that if the US & Allies and the rest of the Arab World push the two sides and provide the necessary guarantees the problem will be solved sooner or later. Everything else leads an endless cycle of violence.

Some of the members who try to argue in favour of war and destruction have argued Hamas needs to be eliminated for peace to exist but they haven't realised what the issues are when you kill thousands of innocent civilians and the remaining Palestinians who are now much more likely to fall into the hands of Hamas (or whatever comes after they've gone) after experienced the deaths of relatives and friends.Not to mention that many of them are probably outside Gaza.

From what I am reading the endless cycle of violence looks to be the outcome.

Thus, while some of these actors might be involved in some way in some activities—service provision most especially—none acting individually or jointly would have the interest, ability, or capability to impose itself on Gaza as an overarching authority. Many might be willing to supply water, aid workers, school supplies, and food. The United States might press Israel to allow a supply of electricity and fuel. Gazan access to international financial systems might be restored.

But for the foreseeable future, there will be no central government for Gaza. Not only will no force be able to supply security in terms of public security and basic law and order, but also, continuous Israeli raids or Hamas attacks on perceived collaborators may be ongoing.

In that context, law and order on the streets will likely be handled—if they are handled at all—by camp committees and self-appointed gangs. And this deterioration at the level of governance, security, and public order will likely be deepened by the absence of a political horizon, diplomatic process, or future prospects: Gazans would be offered a dispiriting present and a future of statelessness and denial of dignity, national rights, and individual rights.

This seems less like the day after a conflict than a long twilight of disintegration and despair.

carnegieendowment.org...

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4
In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war destruction.

You and Gandi are like peas in a pod, but that doesn't change the nature of reality in the world. So let's say Israel stands down and demands all Hamas around the world to be put in prison and stand trial for crimes against humanity.

How would that play out? It's kind of like the whole situation where everyone has an opinion but no one is willing to help the situation and all they do is blame the Jews for everything when the reality is no one wants them.

I can tell you how that all would play out...in 6 months Hamas would launch another few 1000 missiles at Israel right back on track as they always been, and of course, people will be bitching Israel is to blame still.

I will reply to you again

In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war and destruction, I can't share their morality and views.

Peace can be achieved finally with the help of the US, the other Arab countries, and the all other major forces in the area. Two state solution with the process not going to be derailed by either side. Anything else is a cycle of violence and leads nowhere. You know this well I think.

Leave Gandi our of this.

The two-state solution was proposed and agreed to a long time ago but Israel stayed there and occupied the land and created an open air prison. I really don't see Hamas or the Palestinian people believing another two-state agreement will actually be honored this time. So what solution is left to both sides when that solution is off the table?

More lies from you eh? Palestinian’s have always rejected the two state proposal. Do you not research the crap you spam here?

The UN General Assembly approved the two-state solution on November 29, 1947. The area allocated for the Arab state was larger than the modern-day West Bank and Gaza Strip. The area allocated for the Jewish state was smaller than modern-day Israel. The Jews enthusiastically accepted the UN’s November 29, 1947, offer of two states, celebrating by dancing in the streets of Tel Aviv. The Palestinian Arabs, however, flatly rejected the two-state solution and responded by launching a bloody war. In February 1948 the UN’s Palestine Commission reported to the Security Council that “powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.”

www.independent.com...

Palestinians Still Aren’t Willing to Compromise Every leader has rejected every offer of statehood, lest they have to accept a permanent Jewish state, Israel, in any form.

Few still support a two-state solution. Ironically, while some attribute Palestinian rejection of Trump’s plan to its new limits on the traditional two-state paradigm, most Palestinian respondents now reject that model as well. Asked to choose “the top Palestinian national priority during the coming five years,” two-thirds (66%) of West Bankers in this poll pick “regaining all of historical Palestine for the Palestinians”; a mere 14% choose “ending the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza,

www.wsj.com...

Yes...everyone who doesn't accept your dogmatic views and beliefs must be a liar...

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4
In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war destruction.

You and Gandi are like peas in a pod, but that doesn't change the nature of reality in the world. So let's say Israel stands down and demands all Hamas around the world to be put in prison and stand trial for crimes against humanity.

How would that play out? It's kind of like the whole situation where everyone has an opinion but no one is willing to help the situation and all they do is blame the Jews for everything when the reality is no one wants them.

I can tell you how that all would play out...in 6 months Hamas would launch another few 1000 missiles at Israel right back on track as they always been, and of course, people will be bitching Israel is to blame still.

I will reply to you again

In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war and destruction, I can't share their morality and views.

Peace can be achieved finally with the help of the US, the other Arab countries, and the all other major forces in the area. Two state solution with the process not going to be derailed by either side. Anything else is a cycle of violence and leads nowhere. You know this well I think.

Leave Gandi our of this.

The two-state solution was proposed and agreed to a long time ago but Israel stayed there and occupied the land and created an open air prison. I really don't see Hamas or the Palestinian people believing another two-state agreement will actually be honored this time. So what solution is left to both sides when that solution is off the table?

More lies from you eh? Palestinian’s have always rejected the two state proposal. Do you not research the crap you spam here?

The UN General Assembly approved the two-state solution on November 29, 1947. The area allocated for the Arab state was larger than the modern-day West Bank and Gaza Strip. The area allocated for the Jewish state was smaller than modern-day Israel. The Jews enthusiastically accepted the UN’s November 29, 1947, offer of two states, celebrating by dancing in the streets of Tel Aviv. The Palestinian Arabs, however, flatly rejected the two-state solution and responded by launching a bloody war. In February 1948 the UN’s Palestine Commission reported to the Security Council that “powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.”

www.independent.com...

Palestinians Still Aren’t Willing to Compromise Every leader has rejected every offer of statehood, lest they have to accept a permanent Jewish state, Israel, in any form.

Few still support a two-state solution. Ironically, while some attribute Palestinian rejection of Trump’s plan to its new limits on the traditional two-state paradigm, most Palestinian respondents now reject that model as well. Asked to choose “the top Palestinian national priority during the coming five years,” two-thirds (66%) of West Bankers in this poll pick “regaining all of historical Palestine for the Palestinians”; a mere 14% choose “ending the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza,

www.wsj.com...

Yes...everyone who doesn't accept your dogmatic views and beliefs must be a liar...

Facts and reality are extremely difficult for you. You prove it post after post after post……

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Leviathan4
In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war destruction.

You and Gandi are like peas in a pod, but that doesn't change the nature of reality in the world. So let's say Israel stands down and demands all Hamas around the world to be put in prison and stand trial for crimes against humanity.

How would that play out? It's kind of like the whole situation where everyone has an opinion but no one is willing to help the situation and all they do is blame the Jews for everything when the reality is no one wants them.

I can tell you how that all would play out...in 6 months Hamas would launch another few 1000 missiles at Israel right back on track as they always been, and of course, people will be bitching Israel is to blame still.

I will reply to you again

In contrast to others on this platform who have no issue with mass killings and war and destruction, I can't share their morality and views.

Peace can be achieved finally with the help of the US, the other Arab countries, and the all other major forces in the area. Two state solution with the process not going to be derailed by either side. Anything else is a cycle of violence and leads nowhere. You know this well I think.

Leave Gandi our of this.

The two-state solution was proposed and agreed to a long time ago but Israel stayed there and occupied the land and created an open air prison. I really don't see Hamas or the Palestinian people believing another two-state agreement will actually be honored this time. So what solution is left to both sides when that solution is off the table?

More lies from you eh? Palestinian’s have always rejected the two state proposal. Do you not research the crap you spam here?

The UN General Assembly approved the two-state solution on November 29, 1947. The area allocated for the Arab state was larger than the modern-day West Bank and Gaza Strip. The area allocated for the Jewish state was smaller than modern-day Israel. The Jews enthusiastically accepted the UN’s November 29, 1947, offer of two states, celebrating by dancing in the streets of Tel Aviv. The Palestinian Arabs, however, flatly rejected the two-state solution and responded by launching a bloody war. In February 1948 the UN’s Palestine Commission reported to the Security Council that “powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.”

www.independent.com...

Palestinians Still Aren’t Willing to Compromise Every leader has rejected every offer of statehood, lest they have to accept a permanent Jewish state, Israel, in any form.

Few still support a two-state solution. Ironically, while some attribute Palestinian rejection of Trump’s plan to its new limits on the traditional two-state paradigm, most Palestinian respondents now reject that model as well. Asked to choose “the top Palestinian national priority during the coming five years,” two-thirds (66%) of West Bankers in this poll pick “regaining all of historical Palestine for the Palestinians”; a mere 14% choose “ending the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza,

www.wsj.com...

Yes...everyone who doesn't accept your dogmatic views and beliefs must be a liar...

Facts and reality are extremely difficult for you. You prove it post after post after post……

Yes...everyone who doesn't accept your dogmatic views and beliefs must be a liar... You have been accusing everyone pretty much with no distinction....everyone finds it difficult to accept your version of reality and facts....

a reply to: NeonKnights

Let's look at more of the history, shall we?

In 1993 Israel, led by Rabin’s foreign minister Shimon Peres, held a series of negotiations with the PLO in Oslo, Norway. In early September Yasser Arafat sent a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist, accepted UN Resolutions 242 and 338 (which called for lasting peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders), and renounced terrorism and violence. Days later they signed a Declaration of Principles (known as the Oslo Accords), agreeing to set up Palestinian self-government over five years’ time in exchange for Palestinian partnership in matters of Israeli security. The most contentious issues (including Jerusalem, final borders and Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the return of Palestinian refugees) were set to be discussed after that five-year period.

Israeli and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Negotiations continued as Israel and the PLO worked to implement a two-state solution on the ground. In May 1994 a deal concluded in Cairo led to the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the cities of Gaza and Jericho that same month and set up the Palestinian Authority (PA) to carry out civilian functions in those areas. The PA’s autonomous governance was extended to six other cities in 1995, after the conclusion of the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (known as Oslo II). A seventh city, Hebron, was to be handed over in 1996. This agreement also split the West Bank and the Gaza Strip into three types of territory: areas under Palestinian administration and security (“Area A”), areas under Palestinian administration but joint Israeli-Palestinian security (“Area B”), and areas under Israeli administration and security (“Area C”).

Sharon was elected in 2001 in the midst of the second intifada, which had been sparked by his visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. Negotiations stalled as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reached one of its most violent periods. Israeli troops reentered cities in the West Bank and confined Arafat to his compound in Ramallah until he fell gravely ill in 2004. Sharon, meanwhile, tried a new approach to the peace process in 2005 by unilaterally dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip (along with four Jewish settlements in the West Bank) and withdrawing Israeli troops from the territory. Facing fierce opposition, especially within his own party, he formed a new party, Kadima, which was committed to the pursual of a two-state solution.

By the time the Trump administration unveiled its peace plan, which it touted as the “Deal of the Century,” the Palestinians had determined that the United States could no longer play a fair role as mediator in the conflict. The first part of the plan, which proposed significant development in the economy and infrastructure of the Palestinian territories, was announced in June 2019. The second part of the plan, the political component, was released in January 2020 and envisioned predetermined solutions to final status issues: Israel would keep nearly all of its West Bank settlements, impose sovereignty over the Jordan Valley located along the West Bank’s eastern border, and retain an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, while Palestinians would receive demilitarized self-governance within a reduced West Bank territory and the Gaza Strip. The plan, which was received favourably by Israeli leaders but condemned by Palestinian leaders, did little to revitalize negotiations before the end of Trump’s presidency. In 2021 the administration of U.S. Pres. Joe Biden began restoring aid to the Palestinians and promised to reopen the PLO office in Washington, D.C.

www.britannica.com...

The whole article should be read for context and a complete understanding of how both sides tried and failed.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
a reply to: NeonKnights

So anyway really sick of your repeated lies and propaganda that you’ve been spamming for days on end here. As are most members. Get a life.

A very good sign that you have lost this argument. But I am happy to repeat the truth and realities of war no matter how you feel about this.

The dehumanisation attempts of an entire nation shows precisely the level and quality of arguments you have. You're referring to Palestinians as scums and Americans as 'dumbass'.

You can't hold a proper conversation or even to address the issue of the thread on why a hood number of councillors have decided to quit. Maybe because they don't want innocent people to get killed?

There is no way to have a proper conversation with you, all you do is circle jerk nonsense you think you know to be true. Even when people point out your lies you start parroting the same lies the very next post you make, it’s mental. It’s impossible to have intellectual debate with people like you.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NeonKnights

Let's look at more of the history, shall we?

In 1993 Israel, led by Rabin’s foreign minister Shimon Peres, held a series of negotiations with the PLO in Oslo, Norway. In early September Yasser Arafat sent a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist, accepted UN Resolutions 242 and 338 (which called for lasting peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders), and renounced terrorism and violence. Days later they signed a Declaration of Principles (known as the Oslo Accords), agreeing to set up Palestinian self-government over five years’ time in exchange for Palestinian partnership in matters of Israeli security. The most contentious issues (including Jerusalem, final borders and Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the return of Palestinian refugees) were set to be discussed after that five-year period.

Israeli and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Negotiations continued as Israel and the PLO worked to implement a two-state solution on the ground. In May 1994 a deal concluded in Cairo led to the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the cities of Gaza and Jericho that same month and set up the Palestinian Authority (PA) to carry out civilian functions in those areas. The PA’s autonomous governance was extended to six other cities in 1995, after the conclusion of the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (known as Oslo II). A seventh city, Hebron, was to be handed over in 1996. This agreement also split the West Bank and the Gaza Strip into three types of territory: areas under Palestinian administration and security (“Area A”), areas under Palestinian administration but joint Israeli-Palestinian security (“Area B”), and areas under Israeli administration and security (“Area C”).

Sharon was elected in 2001 in the midst of the second intifada, which had been sparked by his visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. Negotiations stalled as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reached one of its most violent periods. Israeli troops reentered cities in the West Bank and confined Arafat to his compound in Ramallah until he fell gravely ill in 2004. Sharon, meanwhile, tried a new approach to the peace process in 2005 by unilaterally dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip (along with four Jewish settlements in the West Bank) and withdrawing Israeli troops from the territory. Facing fierce opposition, especially within his own party, he formed a new party, Kadima, which was committed to the pursual of a two-state solution.

By the time the Trump administration unveiled its peace plan, which it touted as the “Deal of the Century,” the Palestinians had determined that the United States could no longer play a fair role as mediator in the conflict. The first part of the plan, which proposed significant development in the economy and infrastructure of the Palestinian territories, was announced in June 2019. The second part of the plan, the political component, was released in January 2020 and envisioned predetermined solutions to final status issues: Israel would keep nearly all of its West Bank settlements, impose sovereignty over the Jordan Valley located along the West Bank’s eastern border, and retain an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, while Palestinians would receive demilitarized self-governance within a reduced West Bank territory and the Gaza Strip. The plan, which was received favourably by Israeli leaders but condemned by Palestinian leaders, did little to revitalize negotiations before the end of Trump’s presidency. In 2021 the administration of U.S. Pres. Joe Biden began restoring aid to the Palestinians and promised to reopen the PLO office in Washington, D.C.

www.britannica.com...

The whole article should be read for context and a complete understanding of how both sides tried and failed.

People seem to forget that the two state solution has failed because both sides have contributed and just one of them as they want us to believe.

Earlier in this thread it was argued these councillors are cowards who resigned.... Better resign than accept the party line there can't be no ceasefire until thousands from Hamas have been eliminated together with hundreds of tens or even hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NeonKnights

Let's look at more of the history, shall we?

In 1993 Israel, led by Rabin’s foreign minister Shimon Peres, held a series of negotiations with the PLO in Oslo, Norway. In early September Yasser Arafat sent a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist, accepted UN Resolutions 242 and 338 (which called for lasting peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders), and renounced terrorism and violence. Days later they signed a Declaration of Principles (known as the Oslo Accords), agreeing to set up Palestinian self-government over five years’ time in exchange for Palestinian partnership in matters of Israeli security. The most contentious issues (including Jerusalem, final borders and Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the return of Palestinian refugees) were set to be discussed after that five-year period.

Israeli and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Negotiations continued as Israel and the PLO worked to implement a two-state solution on the ground. In May 1994 a deal concluded in Cairo led to the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the cities of Gaza and Jericho that same month and set up the Palestinian Authority (PA) to carry out civilian functions in those areas. The PA’s autonomous governance was extended to six other cities in 1995, after the conclusion of the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (known as Oslo II). A seventh city, Hebron, was to be handed over in 1996. This agreement also split the West Bank and the Gaza Strip into three types of territory: areas under Palestinian administration and security (“Area A”), areas under Palestinian administration but joint Israeli-Palestinian security (“Area B”), and areas under Israeli administration and security (“Area C”).

Sharon was elected in 2001 in the midst of the second intifada, which had been sparked by his visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. Negotiations stalled as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reached one of its most violent periods. Israeli troops reentered cities in the West Bank and confined Arafat to his compound in Ramallah until he fell gravely ill in 2004. Sharon, meanwhile, tried a new approach to the peace process in 2005 by unilaterally dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip (along with four Jewish settlements in the West Bank) and withdrawing Israeli troops from the territory. Facing fierce opposition, especially within his own party, he formed a new party, Kadima, which was committed to the pursual of a two-state solution.

By the time the Trump administration unveiled its peace plan, which it touted as the “Deal of the Century,” the Palestinians had determined that the United States could no longer play a fair role as mediator in the conflict. The first part of the plan, which proposed significant development in the economy and infrastructure of the Palestinian territories, was announced in June 2019. The second part of the plan, the political component, was released in January 2020 and envisioned predetermined solutions to final status issues: Israel would keep nearly all of its West Bank settlements, impose sovereignty over the Jordan Valley located along the West Bank’s eastern border, and retain an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, while Palestinians would receive demilitarized self-governance within a reduced West Bank territory and the Gaza Strip. The plan, which was received favourably by Israeli leaders but condemned by Palestinian leaders, did little to revitalize negotiations before the end of Trump’s presidency. In 2021 the administration of U.S. Pres. Joe Biden began restoring aid to the Palestinians and promised to reopen the PLO office in Washington, D.C.

www.britannica.com...

The whole article should be read for context and a complete understanding of how both sides tried and failed.

People seem to forget that the two state solution has failed because both sides have contributed and just one of them as they want us to believe.

Earlier in this thread it was argued these councillors are cowards who resigned.... Better resign than accept the party line there can't be no ceasefire until thousands from Hamas have been eliminated together with hundreds of tens or even hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

You know it is because of bias, some people here have chosen a side and are guided by propaganda that feeds that bias/narrative. They cherry pick historical accounts to feed that narrative and leave out the true realities of the complex history between these two factions.

I don't see how any reasonable and intelligent discussion can take place here when nobody wants to be open-minded as to the historical truth.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NeonKnights

Let's look at more of the history, shall we?

In 1993 Israel, led by Rabin’s foreign minister Shimon Peres, held a series of negotiations with the PLO in Oslo, Norway. In early September Yasser Arafat sent a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist, accepted UN Resolutions 242 and 338 (which called for lasting peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders), and renounced terrorism and violence. Days later they signed a Declaration of Principles (known as the Oslo Accords), agreeing to set up Palestinian self-government over five years’ time in exchange for Palestinian partnership in matters of Israeli security. The most contentious issues (including Jerusalem, final borders and Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the return of Palestinian refugees) were set to be discussed after that five-year period.

Israeli and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Negotiations continued as Israel and the PLO worked to implement a two-state solution on the ground. In May 1994 a deal concluded in Cairo led to the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the cities of Gaza and Jericho that same month and set up the Palestinian Authority (PA) to carry out civilian functions in those areas. The PA’s autonomous governance was extended to six other cities in 1995, after the conclusion of the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (known as Oslo II). A seventh city, Hebron, was to be handed over in 1996. This agreement also split the West Bank and the Gaza Strip into three types of territory: areas under Palestinian administration and security (“Area A”), areas under Palestinian administration but joint Israeli-Palestinian security (“Area B”), and areas under Israeli administration and security (“Area C”).

Sharon was elected in 2001 in the midst of the second intifada, which had been sparked by his visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. Negotiations stalled as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reached one of its most violent periods. Israeli troops reentered cities in the West Bank and confined Arafat to his compound in Ramallah until he fell gravely ill in 2004. Sharon, meanwhile, tried a new approach to the peace process in 2005 by unilaterally dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip (along with four Jewish settlements in the West Bank) and withdrawing Israeli troops from the territory. Facing fierce opposition, especially within his own party, he formed a new party, Kadima, which was committed to the pursual of a two-state solution.

By the time the Trump administration unveiled its peace plan, which it touted as the “Deal of the Century,” the Palestinians had determined that the United States could no longer play a fair role as mediator in the conflict. The first part of the plan, which proposed significant development in the economy and infrastructure of the Palestinian territories, was announced in June 2019. The second part of the plan, the political component, was released in January 2020 and envisioned predetermined solutions to final status issues: Israel would keep nearly all of its West Bank settlements, impose sovereignty over the Jordan Valley located along the West Bank’s eastern border, and retain an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, while Palestinians would receive demilitarized self-governance within a reduced West Bank territory and the Gaza Strip. The plan, which was received favourably by Israeli leaders but condemned by Palestinian leaders, did little to revitalize negotiations before the end of Trump’s presidency. In 2021 the administration of U.S. Pres. Joe Biden began restoring aid to the Palestinians and promised to reopen the PLO office in Washington, D.C.

www.britannica.com...

The whole article should be read for context and a complete understanding of how both sides tried and failed.

The Oslo Accord was a joke and doomed from the beginning, nothing they agreed on never really materialized. But it’s definitive end was when Palestinian terrorist started another war to take the land they think is guaranteed to them, hence the fact that Palestinians have never fully agreed on a two party state.

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NeonKnights

Let's look at more of the history, shall we?

In 1993 Israel, led by Rabin’s foreign minister Shimon Peres, held a series of negotiations with the PLO in Oslo, Norway. In early September Yasser Arafat sent a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist, accepted UN Resolutions 242 and 338 (which called for lasting peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders), and renounced terrorism and violence. Days later they signed a Declaration of Principles (known as the Oslo Accords), agreeing to set up Palestinian self-government over five years’ time in exchange for Palestinian partnership in matters of Israeli security. The most contentious issues (including Jerusalem, final borders and Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the return of Palestinian refugees) were set to be discussed after that five-year period.

Israeli and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Negotiations continued as Israel and the PLO worked to implement a two-state solution on the ground. In May 1994 a deal concluded in Cairo led to the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the cities of Gaza and Jericho that same month and set up the Palestinian Authority (PA) to carry out civilian functions in those areas. The PA’s autonomous governance was extended to six other cities in 1995, after the conclusion of the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (known as Oslo II). A seventh city, Hebron, was to be handed over in 1996. This agreement also split the West Bank and the Gaza Strip into three types of territory: areas under Palestinian administration and security (“Area A”), areas under Palestinian administration but joint Israeli-Palestinian security (“Area B”), and areas under Israeli administration and security (“Area C”).

Sharon was elected in 2001 in the midst of the second intifada, which had been sparked by his visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. Negotiations stalled as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reached one of its most violent periods. Israeli troops reentered cities in the West Bank and confined Arafat to his compound in Ramallah until he fell gravely ill in 2004. Sharon, meanwhile, tried a new approach to the peace process in 2005 by unilaterally dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip (along with four Jewish settlements in the West Bank) and withdrawing Israeli troops from the territory. Facing fierce opposition, especially within his own party, he formed a new party, Kadima, which was committed to the pursual of a two-state solution.

By the time the Trump administration unveiled its peace plan, which it touted as the “Deal of the Century,” the Palestinians had determined that the United States could no longer play a fair role as mediator in the conflict. The first part of the plan, which proposed significant development in the economy and infrastructure of the Palestinian territories, was announced in June 2019. The second part of the plan, the political component, was released in January 2020 and envisioned predetermined solutions to final status issues: Israel would keep nearly all of its West Bank settlements, impose sovereignty over the Jordan Valley located along the West Bank’s eastern border, and retain an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, while Palestinians would receive demilitarized self-governance within a reduced West Bank territory and the Gaza Strip. The plan, which was received favourably by Israeli leaders but condemned by Palestinian leaders, did little to revitalize negotiations before the end of Trump’s presidency. In 2021 the administration of U.S. Pres. Joe Biden began restoring aid to the Palestinians and promised to reopen the PLO office in Washington, D.C.

www.britannica.com...

The whole article should be read for context and a complete understanding of how both sides tried and failed.

The Oslo Accord was a joke and doomed from the beginning, nothing they agreed on never really materialized. But it’s definitive end was when Palestinian terrorist started another war to take the land they think is guaranteed to them, hence the fact that Palestinians have never fully agreed on a two party state.

You are deluded.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NeonKnights

Let's look at more of the history, shall we?

In 1993 Israel, led by Rabin’s foreign minister Shimon Peres, held a series of negotiations with the PLO in Oslo, Norway. In early September Yasser Arafat sent a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist, accepted UN Resolutions 242 and 338 (which called for lasting peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders), and renounced terrorism and violence. Days later they signed a Declaration of Principles (known as the Oslo Accords), agreeing to set up Palestinian self-government over five years’ time in exchange for Palestinian partnership in matters of Israeli security. The most contentious issues (including Jerusalem, final borders and Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the return of Palestinian refugees) were set to be discussed after that five-year period.

Israeli and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Negotiations continued as Israel and the PLO worked to implement a two-state solution on the ground. In May 1994 a deal concluded in Cairo led to the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the cities of Gaza and Jericho that same month and set up the Palestinian Authority (PA) to carry out civilian functions in those areas. The PA’s autonomous governance was extended to six other cities in 1995, after the conclusion of the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (known as Oslo II). A seventh city, Hebron, was to be handed over in 1996. This agreement also split the West Bank and the Gaza Strip into three types of territory: areas under Palestinian administration and security (“Area A”), areas under Palestinian administration but joint Israeli-Palestinian security (“Area B”), and areas under Israeli administration and security (“Area C”).

Sharon was elected in 2001 in the midst of the second intifada, which had been sparked by his visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. Negotiations stalled as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reached one of its most violent periods. Israeli troops reentered cities in the West Bank and confined Arafat to his compound in Ramallah until he fell gravely ill in 2004. Sharon, meanwhile, tried a new approach to the peace process in 2005 by unilaterally dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip (along with four Jewish settlements in the West Bank) and withdrawing Israeli troops from the territory. Facing fierce opposition, especially within his own party, he formed a new party, Kadima, which was committed to the pursual of a two-state solution.

By the time the Trump administration unveiled its peace plan, which it touted as the “Deal of the Century,” the Palestinians had determined that the United States could no longer play a fair role as mediator in the conflict. The first part of the plan, which proposed significant development in the economy and infrastructure of the Palestinian territories, was announced in June 2019. The second part of the plan, the political component, was released in January 2020 and envisioned predetermined solutions to final status issues: Israel would keep nearly all of its West Bank settlements, impose sovereignty over the Jordan Valley located along the West Bank’s eastern border, and retain an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, while Palestinians would receive demilitarized self-governance within a reduced West Bank territory and the Gaza Strip. The plan, which was received favourably by Israeli leaders but condemned by Palestinian leaders, did little to revitalize negotiations before the end of Trump’s presidency. In 2021 the administration of U.S. Pres. Joe Biden began restoring aid to the Palestinians and promised to reopen the PLO office in Washington, D.C.

www.britannica.com...

The whole article should be read for context and a complete understanding of how both sides tried and failed.

The Oslo Accord was a joke and doomed from the beginning, nothing they agreed on never really materialized. But it’s definitive end was when Palestinian terrorist started another war to take the land they think is guaranteed to them, hence the fact that Palestinians have never fully agreed on a two party state.

You are deluded.

No, I think that would be you but regardless I’m done here. These arguments with the two of you have become pointless.

COME ON MODS START MODIFYING. This is about British councillors (not MPs) leaving their party, but the post is deteriorating into a Palestine/Israeli tit for tat argument again.

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: NeonKnights

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: NeonKnights

Let's look at more of the history, shall we?

In 1993 Israel, led by Rabin’s foreign minister Shimon Peres, held a series of negotiations with the PLO in Oslo, Norway. In early September Yasser Arafat sent a letter to Rabin saying that the PLO recognized Israel’s right to exist, accepted UN Resolutions 242 and 338 (which called for lasting peace with Israel in exchange for Israel’s withdrawal to its pre-1967 borders), and renounced terrorism and violence. Days later they signed a Declaration of Principles (known as the Oslo Accords), agreeing to set up Palestinian self-government over five years’ time in exchange for Palestinian partnership in matters of Israeli security. The most contentious issues (including Jerusalem, final borders and Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and the return of Palestinian refugees) were set to be discussed after that five-year period.

Israeli and Palestinian settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

Negotiations continued as Israel and the PLO worked to implement a two-state solution on the ground. In May 1994 a deal concluded in Cairo led to the withdrawal of Israeli forces from the cities of Gaza and Jericho that same month and set up the Palestinian Authority (PA) to carry out civilian functions in those areas. The PA’s autonomous governance was extended to six other cities in 1995, after the conclusion of the Interim Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (known as Oslo II). A seventh city, Hebron, was to be handed over in 1996. This agreement also split the West Bank and the Gaza Strip into three types of territory: areas under Palestinian administration and security (“Area A”), areas under Palestinian administration but joint Israeli-Palestinian security (“Area B”), and areas under Israeli administration and security (“Area C”).

Sharon was elected in 2001 in the midst of the second intifada, which had been sparked by his visit in 2000 to the Temple Mount. Negotiations stalled as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reached one of its most violent periods. Israeli troops reentered cities in the West Bank and confined Arafat to his compound in Ramallah until he fell gravely ill in 2004. Sharon, meanwhile, tried a new approach to the peace process in 2005 by unilaterally dismantling Jewish settlements in the Gaza Strip (along with four Jewish settlements in the West Bank) and withdrawing Israeli troops from the territory. Facing fierce opposition, especially within his own party, he formed a new party, Kadima, which was committed to the pursual of a two-state solution.

By the time the Trump administration unveiled its peace plan, which it touted as the “Deal of the Century,” the Palestinians had determined that the United States could no longer play a fair role as mediator in the conflict. The first part of the plan, which proposed significant development in the economy and infrastructure of the Palestinian territories, was announced in June 2019. The second part of the plan, the political component, was released in January 2020 and envisioned predetermined solutions to final status issues: Israel would keep nearly all of its West Bank settlements, impose sovereignty over the Jordan Valley located along the West Bank’s eastern border, and retain an undivided Jerusalem as its capital, while Palestinians would receive demilitarized self-governance within a reduced West Bank territory and the Gaza Strip. The plan, which was received favourably by Israeli leaders but condemned by Palestinian leaders, did little to revitalize negotiations before the end of Trump’s presidency. In 2021 the administration of U.S. Pres. Joe Biden began restoring aid to the Palestinians and promised to reopen the PLO office in Washington, D.C.

www.britannica.com...

The whole article should be read for context and a complete understanding of how both sides tried and failed.

The Oslo Accord was a joke and doomed from the beginning, nothing they agreed on never really materialized. But it’s definitive end was when Palestinian terrorist started another war to take the land they think is guaranteed to them, hence the fact that Palestinians have never fully agreed on a two party state.

You are deluded.

No, I think that would be you but regardless I’m done here. These arguments with the two of you have become pointless.

Exactly, any discussion with closed minded people here is pointless.

originally posted by: crayzeed
COME ON MODS START MODIFYING. This is about British councillors (not MPs) leaving their party, but the post is deteriorating into a Palestine/Israeli tit for tat argument again.

The issue at least for me is that whatever the topic from the OP the message is the same thread after thread. “ do you condemn this or that” and “war crimes” blah blah blah. The other wants to rant for 50 pages about how many people were at a protest. It’s a insult to the community’s intelligence and bodes for poor debate.