Realistic Solution to Palestinian-Isreali Conflict

a reply to: Mawdano

Have at it...

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Deetermined2

Our first point of discussion was, they have to kill all non-Muslims, can you provide me with proofs?

a reply to: Mawdano

The link I provided to you above should answer all of your questions.

a reply to: Deetermined2

I couldn't find a paragraph that says kill all people that are not Muslims. Can you please copy that part here for me.

a reply to: Mawdano

I'm using my mobile, so no, I'm not able to copy and paste for you.

Posting to see if I can after getting my account back!

The Israel/Palestine problem will never be solved! The Koran states lots of times terrible anti Jewish rhetoric. Now I know educated Muslims understand the real world (or I did till the Muslim extremist turned out to be a doctor educated in the UK) but in the Middle East third world countries most of the population are uneducated other than having the content of the Koran repeatedly taught/forced onto them. The hatred is hardwired into them at a very early age.

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: Deetermined2

I couldn't find a paragraph that says kill all people that are not Muslims. Can you please copy that part here for me.

[2.88] And they say: Our hearts are covered. Nay, Allah has cursed them on account of their unbelief; so little it is that they believe.

[4.47] O you who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.

[4.161] And their taking usury though indeed they were forbidden it and their devouring the property of people falsely, and We have prepared for the unbelievers from among them a painful chastisement.

[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

a reply to: Mawdano

In other words, you created this thread to play some kind of game instead of discuss real world matters?

Why shouldn't someone else play a make believe game as well? I like the landlord analogy better. Much easier to keep track of as a game layout, and models the historical reality much better.

a reply to: chr0naut

I completely agree, people blame religion, when it's politics that brought us to this dance.

When religion becomes indistinguishable from politics, that country is in trouble. Secular democracies work better in the modern world.

Religion is the moral imperative imposed on the masses.

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: Deetermined2

Okay, we need PHD in religions to include that in discussion, which we don't really possess.

I'll wait for anyone that is expert on religious issues to handle with us the aspect of religion.

Up until we find that individual, we will just look at the problem from average citizen standpoint.

I don't need a PhD to know the Quran mandates the spread of Islam to all 4 corners of the globe, which is why the Ottoman Empire began doing what they did, and to know that a highly devout Muslim will advocate Sharia Law and view non Muslims in "its territory" as infidels meant to be converted or killed. This is the same kind of thing the Christian crusades and the Inquisition did.

Fundamentalist Religious doctrines are absolutist and totally incompatible with the liberty and safety of other cultures, but it seems like most people want to live in a happy-go-lucky fantasy land where they never have to admit that.

I told my mom's side of the family I'd visit and be involved if they just respected me being non-religious.
They made it less than 10 minutes into Thanksgiving before having an impromptu worship service and praying over me and trying to convert me. Anyone who says religious fundamentalists can respect other's beliefs or non-beliefs, is either willfully deluded or hasn't spent any time with actual religious people.

In the late 90's and early 2000s, the hardcore Christians were advocating to have Bible Study in school.
They claimed "They're trying to take our Bibles and prayer out of school!"
In reality, you could still bring a bible to school and read it during lunch or in study hall,
and no was was gonna stop anyone from silently praying throughout the day,
but that wasn't enough. So some southern schools allowed bible study groups.
I attended a few.
The problem ended up being that the groups pushing for it were mostly Young Earth Creationists,
so during the "Bible Studies" they would teach kids about the Earth being only 6,000 years old,
which ran directly anathema to what we were later taught in Earth Science, World History, and Biology.
The discrepancies were seen by the staunch believers as propaganda, and it caused disruptive demonstrations
in my school, so they eventually had to take away all organized bible studies on school property on school time.

originally posted by: TheValeyard

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: Deetermined2

[qoute]
I told my mom's side of the family I'd visit and be involved if they just respected me being non-religious.
They made it less than 10 minutes into Thanksgiving before having an impromptu worship service and praying over me and trying to convert me. Anyone who says religious fundamentalists can respect other's beliefs or non-beliefs, is either willfully deluded or hasn't spent any time with actual religious people.

Crikey. don't know how I would have coped with that.

You got my sympathy though.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: TheValeyard

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: Deetermined2

[qoute]
I told my mom's side of the family I'd visit and be involved if they just respected me being non-religious.
They made it less than 10 minutes into Thanksgiving before having an impromptu worship service and praying over me and trying to convert me. Anyone who says religious fundamentalists can respect other's beliefs or non-beliefs, is either willfully deluded or hasn't spent any time with actual religious people.

"Crikey. don't know how I would have coped with that.

You got my sympathy though."


LOL, I have motor-fingers and drink a lot of caffeine. Thanks.

a reply to: Mawdano

We need to debate religious arguments professionally. Those who are experts on religion are there. We will ask all the needed questions there. Have healthy debate then adopt certain points and facts.

The same could be said for this thread. I don't see any 'experts' here discussing the issue, just armchair thinkers.

Your lack of knowledge on the subject and bigger picture proves this to be a discussion for non-professionals; trying to silence all opinions you disagree with shows you to be too biased and close-minded for this thread. You'll never find soultions when you pick and choose only information you want to believe.

a reply to: Radchad

I see that in most of these verses. It's just telling stories. I mean, there could be stories on Quran about mistakes some Muslims had done also. Every religion thinks that it's the best and others have done sins, so their religion is better. Even Christianity does that.

We need first to say in this form please

This religion is bad because ................ then give me the evidence so that I could investigate it.

So far I have investigated the ones you have sent me, they all are about why Muslims shouldn't be Jew, Hindus or worship sun because these people do sins and act in unacceptable manner. This is normal because if they thought Hindus don't make things the wrong way, it would have told them become Hindus and there is no need for Quran.

For example, I don't see a problem if some religion say: Don't eat pork because it sucks, don't do like Sun worshipers, they are eating it.
Because in reality they won't kill the Sun worshipers because they're doing sin from the perspective of that religion. I have never seen anybody killed for eating pork while it's prohibited for them.

Can you please find the evidence that tells them kill everybody that are not Muslim for instance?

a reply to: MoreCoyoteAngels

Landlord theory has been investigated also. There is a reply about this point.

a reply to: TheValeyard

I acknowledge that they are trying to get you to convert, but did anybody attempt to murder you when you didn't convert?

a reply to: nugget1

I'm trying to take all points of view, but maintaining a healthy discussion system to prohibit the spreading of misinformation.
I investigate every claim and ask for evidence when I find that I cannot find any evidence that backup these claims. This takes time, so we can keep role play going while investigating all historical, statistical and religious claims. The worst problem in discussions is spreading of misinformation.

MAN WHO SAVED JEWISH CHILDREN FROM THE HOLOCAUST RETURNS HIS MEDAL DUE TO THE GAZA GENOCIDE

twitter.com...

If that man thinks that there is evidence that Palestinians wanted to kill everybody who is not Muslims, he would have chosen to keep his medal for being a hero at the Holocaust battle.

originally posted by: Mawdano
a reply to: TheValeyard

I acknowledge that they are trying to get you to convert, but did anybody attempt to murder you when you didn't convert?

It seems like you didn't understand my point.
Christians HAVE killed MANY who refused to convert.
Muslims certainly have too, with a lot of publicized beheadings.
The Torah and Bible have the city of Jericho being wiped out just because the Hebrews needed it,
instead of God getting Jericho to let them in. That seems pretty effed too.
My point was that fundamentalism is bad,
not "which one is worse".
IMO they're all bad, and they ALL teach that their followers are special and matter more than other people.
That mentality can't coexist with civilized society.