Trump's star witness...Michael Cohen?

originally posted by: blindmellojello

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: blindmellojello

“He did not specifically state ‘Michael, go inflate the numbers.’ He speaks like a mob boss. He tells you what he wants without specifically telling you.”

Those are his exact words. Which is consistent with what he's said previously.

So …. Trump never told him to do it ?

Trump tells people without telling them ?

My God, this is what you’re hanging your hat on ?

You’re. Supposed. To. Be. Embarrassed. By. This.

They never will be embarrassed by any of it.
You need to have a conscience and some morals to feel embarrassment.

Trump has the Force, he just wills people to do what he wants without saying anything.

originally posted by: kwaka
In doing my own taxes, value is such a fungible thing. Is it what you paid for it, what someone else would pay for it, what is it worth if you had to sell it today, tomorrow or some time in the future?

Ok, do the depreciation thing, some assets go up, some go down. What if it breaks before its used by date, what if it is a strong machine that just keeps running. What is the right number the buyer will accept? Some won't touch it if too cheep, others if too expensive.

It hurts my head some of this accounting stuff, especially when it comes to forecasting.

So some accountant says too high, another too low, show me the money.

Former state tax agent (retired) and paid tax preparer (also retired!) here.


Any asset for which Capital Gains might apply for taxation purposes would have a "basis", that is, the cost paid, by the taxpayer, to acquire the asset. The taxpayer must retain, or otherwisebe able to provide, the documentation supporting said valuation. Capital Losses claimed against assets which have decreased in value (due to damage or destruction, for example), also use these original valuation documents to establish degree of loss. If any improvements to the original asset have been made, beyond normal maintenance, such that the the value of the asset is increased, documentationof such improvements and their cost need to be documented as well.

"Fair Market Value (FVM)" is established for those assets lacking actual documentation based on industry standards of appraisal and valuation based on comparable market entities. Not the taxpayer's "assertions"!


"Depreciation" is only applicable to "goods placed in service", that is, items which are used to generate income for business purposes. Your personal vehicle does not depreciate for tax purposes (though it's value certainly does diminish over time), but the delivery van your company uses in its business depreciates by a certain, IRS established percentage over a set period of time.


Things are not nearly as "fungible" as you might think (or hope!) once you Read The Instructions.

a reply to: Bhadhidar2023

so when a taxpayer tells you the value of something, that's the number the tax department uses?

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: FarmerSimulation

Executive Law 63 isn't an actual law? That's weird since it has the word law in its name.

Text
10. Prosecute every person charged with the commission of a criminal
offense in violation of any of the laws of this state against
discrimination because of age, race, sex, creed, color, national origin,
sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, military status,
disability, predisposing genetic characteristics, familial status,
marital status, citizenship or immigration status, or domestic violence
victim status, in any case where in his judgment, because of the extent
of the offense, such prosecution cannot be effectively carried on by the
district attorney of the county wherein the offense or a portion thereof
is alleged to have been committed, or where in his judgment the district
attorney has erroneously failed or refused to prosecute. In all such
proceedings, the attorney-general may appear in person or by his deputy
or assistant before any court or any grand jury and exercise all the
powers and perform all the duties in respect of such actions or
proceedings which the district attorney would otherwise be authorized or
required to exercise or perform.

11. Prosecute and defend all actions and proceedings in connection
with safeguarding and enforcing the state's remainder interest in any
trust which meets the requirements of subparagraph two of paragraph (b)
of subdivision two of section three hundred sixty-six of the social
services law.

12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal
acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the
carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general
may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the
supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an
order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any
fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an
appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue
of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law
or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court
may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem
proper. The word "fraud" or "fraudulent" as used herein shall include
any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception,
misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false
promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term "persistent
fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or
carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term
"repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and
distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than
one person.

OK, I read it and this looks to be the only relevant section but this only requires more citation from you and obviously the prosecution.
Where is the crime?

All you did was cite the ability to prosecute fraud.
In this case you are actually claiming every County is guilty of fraud for unfair tax evaluation of property.

What were Trumps property taxes paid in this equation?
We're they fair or fraudulent.

Reaching is what I see.
Clearly a with hunt if this is what is being prosecuted.
It explains the huge exodus from NY doesn't it?

Can we prosecute the State for improper property tax evaluations instead of Trump actually paying his taxes and fulfilling his contractual obligations to the banks in full?

Citations please

After January of 2025 judge Endgroin and Attorney General Latita will know what Hell feels like.

a reply to: FarmerSimulation

Section 12 is the specific law being used against the Trump Organization.

Case law states that the prosecutor doesn't need to show damages or that sdny other laws are broken. They merely need to show that a company has a persistent history of performing fraudulent actions.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: FarmerSimulation

Section 12 is the specific law being used against the Trump Organization.

Case law states that the prosecutor doesn't need to show damages or that sdny other laws are broken. They merely need to show that a company has a persistent history of performing fraudulent actions.

What's considered "persistent history"? Is there a table or formula used? Would it be a single loan or multiple loans? Who decides what is considered "persistent"?

When someone is a "habitual" criminal, references of previous crimes are used.

Where are the previous instances of fraud?
Has he been found guilty before?

Is a singular case considered "persistent"?

Help me understand.

a reply to: SourGrapes

The term "persistent
fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or
carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term
"repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and
distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than
one person.

In this case, the evidence of persistent fraud is the years of financial statements showing Trump Organization greatly inflating their assets to banks in hopes of getting better terms on their loans.

a reply to: Threadbarer

So. Why was he never charged before? Why was he not charged when this came out in the Cohen Investigation? Or al of the other cases before Bragg that were dropped?

He has been in business with the State of New York for over 50 years...just think about that because it is all about politics and nothing else.

Mean tweets > WWIII

That’s it. That’s the post.

a reply to: matafuchs

The case has been under investigation since 2019. It takes a long time to go through all of a multi-billion dollar company's finances. Especially when said company contests every subpoena.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: matafuchs

The case has been under investigation since 2019. It takes a long time to go through all of a multi-billion dollar company's finances. Especially when said company contests every subpoena.

What was found in 2019 that lead us here to these charges/ not charges?

originally posted by: Threadbarer
a reply to: FarmerSimulation

Section 12 is the specific law being used against the Trump Organization.

Case law states that the prosecutor doesn't need to show damages or that sdny other laws are broken. They merely need to show that a company has a persistent history of performing fraudulent actions.

So what were these fraudulent actions found in 2019?

a reply to: FarmerSimulation

Cohen's February 2019 testimony in front of the House.

originally posted by: FurPerson

it is really sad you think Trump is not the same as all of them once they get to a certain level of power they all turn to #.
personal gain is the game

So what was the crime here? Trump says Mar-a-Lago is worth 1 trillion which has nothing to do with taxes or loans.

a reply to: FarmerSimulation

The case is looking at a series of financial statements made between 2011 and 2015 where the Trump Organization would overinflate the value of assets to lenders while providing a smaller valuation to tax officials.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Bhadhidar2023

so when a taxpayer tells you the value of something, that's the number the tax department uses?

If they provide valid documentation supporting that claimed value. Which is why you are required to include "all documents and schedules" with the return when it is filed....And! why you are required to swear under penalty of Perjury that all the information on those documents, and the return, are complete and correct.


But, Even Then, the IRS has (at least) 3 years to review the return (and all the attachments) to verify the information for "discrepancies", or changes which need to be made due to changes in law or as a result of court findings applicable to the tax code.

Your particular State may have additional time to review any item questioned, or changed, by the IRS as well.

originally posted by: Threadbarer

The case has been under investigation since 2019. It takes a long time to go through all of a multi-billion dollar company's finances. Especially when said company contests every subpoena.

And they couldn't find a single crime to charge him with so now they are going to civil court where basically you can do whatever you want as long as the judge allows and this judge is allowing everything.

For the millionth time, someone please explain how all this isn't a political hit job because it's an election year.

originally posted by: Threadbarer

The case is looking at a series of financial statements made between 2011 and 2015 where the Trump Organization would overinflate the value of assets to lenders while providing a smaller valuation to tax officials.

New York does their own tax evaluations. Lenders should do assessments to protect their loans, if they don't then it's on them. In this case, all loans were paid back. There might be a case if Trump defaulted on a loan, and the lender could get much back from his assets, but still, that is on the lender and would be a private civil court event.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Once again, the law does not require the prosecutor to prove damages. Just a persistent history of fraudulent actions.