Trump fraud case just fell apart

originally posted by: Mahogany

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Mahogany

It doesn't matter what someone thinks it could sell for, there is a real market value

Exactly, actually.

The rest of your nonsense doesnt apply however.


Who is responsible for determining that value?

Generally the tax assessor, but the market always moves and depending on timing you can get 10-20% more than the assessment, or less.

The assessor will determine the land value and the real property value, such as anything that is attached to the land and can't be removed, outbuildings, in-ground pool, etc.

Then you get a tax assessment for 70% of the market value. I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but I'm pretty sure every state in the US does it this way.

was Trump a Tax assessor?

a reply to: Mahogany

Is the judge qualified to make such assessments?

Also, is the bank responsible (fiduciarily and legally) to do their own assessment of loans, including value, risk, collateral etc?

Generally the tax assessor, but the market always moves and depending on timing you can get 10-20% more than the assessment, or less.

Why is my relative home value worth exponentually more than the tax assessment and my mortgage as well?

Am I committing fraud against the people of my state?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Mahogany

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Mahogany

It doesn't matter what someone thinks it could sell for, there is a real market value

Exactly, actually.

The rest of your nonsense doesnt apply however.


Who is responsible for determining that value?

Generally the tax assessor, but the market always moves and depending on timing you can get 10-20% more than the assessment, or less.

The assessor will determine the land value and the real property value, such as anything that is attached to the land and can't be removed, outbuildings, in-ground pool, etc.

Then you get a tax assessment for 70% of the market value. I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but I'm pretty sure every state in the US does it this way.

was Trump a Tax assessor?

I'm going to assume you're trying to say if he's not a tax assessor, it's not his fault. Like if someone is not a judge, laws don't apply to them because they just didn't know.

If I'm buying a house, I know exactly where to look for a tax assessments. And Trump also knows, and so do his accountants and lawyers. I will look at as many years back as I can. Market values fluctuate a bit, but if the assessment says 400k, and someone is asking 600k, that's unrealistic.

Inflating it by 2300% is way, way worse. Only if someone is selling a house and inflates the price, that's not fraud. You just say that's crazy and move on. Lying to banks about it to take money from them IS fraud, which is why he lost this case.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Mahogany

Is the judge qualified to make such assessments?

Also, is the bank responsible (fiduciarily and legally) to do their own assessment of loans, including value, risk, collateral etc?

Generally the tax assessor, but the market always moves and depending on timing you can get 10-20% more than the assessment, or less.

Why is my relative home value worth exponentually more than the tax assessment and my mortgage as well?

Am I committing fraud against the people of my state?

Yes, the judge is the only one qualified to determine this. It is an equitable remedy, which could not have been determined by a jury, which was the only other alternative in this case. Alina Habba knew this and checked that box specifically, knowing this was the only option.

Answer to your last question. No you are not committing any fraud for your home value increasing. You would be committing fraud if you asked for a bank loan stating wholly unrealistic and made up values for your home. Until you actually try to defraud someone, no fraud is committed.

a reply to: Mahogany

Yes, the judge is the only one qualified to determine this. It is an equitable remedy, which could not have been determined by a jury, which was the only other alternative in this case. Alina Habba knew this and checked that box specifically, knowing this was the only option.

So your argument here is that the judge, alone, is a financial, tax and property assessor as well as a judge AND that it's Trumps defense' fault that a box was not checked to accept due process.

That's hilarious. But expected.

Answer to your last question. No you are not committing any fraud for your home value increasing. You would be committing fraud if you asked for a bank loan stating wholly unrealistic and made up values for your home. Until you actually try to defraud someone, no fraud is committed.

You forgot to show where Trump defrauded the citizens of New York....as did the prosecution.


So, all of these due process violations..........

Can't imagine them applying to anyone else ever, right?

a reply to: JinMI

Well, I'm glad you're entertained.

But do you understand why he lost this case so far?

He did appeal and who knows what happens on appeal, but so far he and his lawyers could not come up with any reasons to explain the fraudulent activity, and he had his own accountant admit to fraud under oath and admit to overvaluing properties. Others testified family members asked them directly to fudge the numbers.

It's really tough to defend against facts and testimony like that -- which is why he lost.

a reply to: Mahogany

But do you understand why he lost this case so far?

Yes, a summary judgment. No adversarial rebut plus expert testimony.

It's really tough to defend against facts and testimony like that -- which is why he lost.

It's always tough to defend when you aren't allowed a defense....

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Mahogany

But do you understand why he lost this case so far?

Yes, a summary judgment. No adversarial rebut plus expert testimony.

It's really tough to defend against facts and testimony like that -- which is why he lost.

It's always tough to defend when you aren't allowed a defense....

So now I'm guessing you're claiming he had no representation, no lawyers? That this decision came from a vacuum?

Time for me to spend my time on another topic, thanks for the chat.

originally posted by: Mahogany

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Mahogany

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Mahogany

It doesn't matter what someone thinks it could sell for, there is a real market value

Exactly, actually.

The rest of your nonsense doesnt apply however.


Who is responsible for determining that value?

Generally the tax assessor, but the market always moves and depending on timing you can get 10-20% more than the assessment, or less.

The assessor will determine the land value and the real property value, such as anything that is attached to the land and can't be removed, outbuildings, in-ground pool, etc.

Then you get a tax assessment for 70% of the market value. I don't know if it's like this everywhere, but I'm pretty sure every state in the US does it this way.

was Trump a Tax assessor?

I'm going to assume you're trying to say if he's not a tax assessor, it's not his fault. Like if someone is not a judge, laws don't apply to them because they just didn't know.

If I'm buying a house, I know exactly where to look for a tax assessments. And Trump also knows, and so do his accountants and lawyers. I will look at as many years back as I can. Market values fluctuate a bit, but if the assessment says 400k, and someone is asking 600k, that's unrealistic.

Inflating it by 2300% is way, way worse. Only if someone is selling a house and inflates the price, that's not fraud. You just say that's crazy and move on. Lying to banks about it to take money from them IS fraud, which is why he lost this case.

in a transaction, each side has their own due diligence. My question was, did Trump have the responsibility to provide the numbers, or did he need documentation? If he was loaning money, then yes, that's on him, but to borrow?, that's on the lender. Unless you have alternative facts.

a reply to: Mahogany

So now I'm guessing you're claiming he had no representation, no lawyers? That this decision came from a vacuum?

Do you know what a summary judgement is?

Time for me to spend my time on another topic, thanks for the chat.

Yes, I am very entertained, and this is why. When you guys are exposed to your own logic, you're left in the unfortunate place of seeing it all fall apart.

Time and time again, thread after thread.

As I've been saying, you're providing a valuable service.

a reply to: network dude

Once again, it doesn't matter if Trump Organization's attempts at fraud were successful. The law only cares that they attempted to defraud the banks repeatedly over a prolonged period of time.

a reply to: JinMI

Both sides filed motions for summary judgment. The judge found Trump's argument lacking while the AG's argument was backed by mountains of financial data and witness testimony.

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: JinMI

Both sides filed motions for summary judgment. The judge found Trump's argument lacking while the AG's argument was backed by mountains of financial data and witness testimony.

the same judge who ruled on Trump's guilt before the trial started?

a reply to: network dude

The same judge that was provided evidence by both sides and decided that the evidence provided by the AG was insurmountable.

If the appellate court sides with Engoron will you accept their ruling? If it ends up going to the NY Supreme Court and they side with Engoron will you accept their ruling?

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: network dude

The same judge that was provided evidence by both sides and decided that the evidence provided by the AG was insurmountable.

If the appellate court sides with Engoron will you accept their ruling? If it ends up going to the NY Supreme Court and they side with Engoron will you accept their ruling?

When Trump wins and uses his DOJ to go after democrat businessmen who did this same thing, will you cry buckets, or justify the tactic?

eta:
and what is the reason for the trial? Please explain that.

originally posted by: Threadbare
a reply to: JinMI

Both sides filed motions for summary judgment. The judge found Trump's argument lacking while the AG's argument was backed by mountains of financial data and witness testimony.

A bench trial and summary judgment are not the same thing..........

But, I'm glad you see the difference regardless.

Again, is the judge a banking expert?
Property appraiser?
Real estate expert?

a reply to: JinMI

Probably not. They are Judges. They do the Judging. Based on the evidence and the law. And expert evidence where appropriate. And legal submissions and such.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Yet the judge did not allow for those experts or more specifically, evidence/testimony from the bank.

Nor an expert appraiser....

a reply to: JinMI

Oh. Did he give reasons?

originally posted by: Mahogany

Inflating it by 2300% is way, way worse. Only if someone is selling a house and inflates the price, that's not fraud. You just say that's crazy and move on. Lying to banks about it to take money from them IS fraud, which is why he lost this case.

The banks said they did their own assessments, so where is the fraud? Where do you get the 2300% from? Is it the Judge saying it is only worth 18 million? A house next store with 6 bedrooms on a small lot sold for 50 million... The interesting part is the banks are saying there was no fraud and so how does NY claim it.