Can you admit Trump was right on a few things?

originally posted by: opethPA
You two believe BIden was fully responsible for Afghanistan.
I believe Trump then Biden were responsible for Afghanistan.
Like so many things in life I bet the truth lies in the middle.

No, and this is where the disconnect is. I am saying, enequivically, and without fear of second guessing myself, that Joe Biden was 100% responsible for the withdraw of the troops, and the way it happened. That is all.

Everyone agreed we needed to leave. The only question was how? Well, Trump came up with a plan, and if he was still president when it came time, then he would have been totally and completely blamed and rightfully so. But he wasn't in office. For almost a year. Can you be blamed for things you can't control, and is that fair? I don't think it is.

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: opethPA

When Trump took office, he ditched NAFTA and negotiated the USMCA. Are you saying that Biden had no power to renegotiate this supposedly "poor deal" made by Trump?

Really?

Biden , however could have or should have tried to renegotiate it or ignore it.

He didn't - "poor plan" or not he didn't even follow it.

The agreement was hailed at the time by both the United States and the Taliban as providing a road map for the orderly withdrawal of U.S.-led forces.

But Khalilzad says the agreement was not fully implemented, implying that if it had been, events may have turned out differently.

"Based on the Doha agreement, a lot of work is still incomplete," he said.

Former U.S. Envoy Defends Controversial Peace Deal With Taliban

Bottom line is Biden "could have" but we'll never know how Trump "would have", and for that the blame rests entirely on Biden's shoulders.

I am sure we can both find sources that believed the deal was good or bad.

Post a source that can accurately and definitively game out how the withdrawal would have went if Trump was in charge. Exactly.
Can you?
Of course you can't. As far as I know we don't possess an alternate timeline machine. So that renders whatever you say as pure speculation and spitballing - period.

That is great but I never said anything about how it would play out. Nor is that hypothetical germane to my overall statement of Trump is to blame for the start and Biden the finish.

The thing about hypothetical scenarios in the course of a debate like this is that they do not serve a purpose. Because of that I don't see a point in doing anything other than letting the facts tell a scenario. By their very nature hypothetical scenarios can neither be proven or disproven. Facts, however are a statement that can be proven true or false.

A fact would be, " I am sure we can both find sources that believed the deal was good or bad."
(it's actually surprisingly hard to find a source that said this was a good deal)

A hypothetical scenario would be , "Post a source that can accurately and definitively game out how the withdrawal would have went if Trump was in charge.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: opethPA
You two believe BIden was fully responsible for Afghanistan.
I believe Trump then Biden were responsible for Afghanistan.
Like so many things in life I bet the truth lies in the middle.

No, and this is where the disconnect is. I am saying, enequivically, and without fear of second guessing myself, that Joe Biden was 100% responsible for the withdraw of the troops, and the way it happened. That is all.

Everyone agreed we needed to leave. The only question was how? Well, Trump came up with a plan, and if he was still president when it came time, then he would have been totally and completely blamed and rightfully so. But he wasn't in office. For almost a year. Can you be blamed for things you can't control, and is that fair? I don't think it is.

As you know from our discussions on other topics, we both have agreed that it's okay to for someone to have opposing perspectives. I am not goign to sit here and say I am right you are wrong nor do I take what you posted as trying to do that.

You know that Biden is 100% to blame in this scenario or more explicitly for the withdraw of the troops, and the way it happened.

I know 100% that Trump agreed to a horrible deal and that Biden fumbled as bad as you can on implementing Trump's deal.

As I said above, most likely the truth lies in the middle of both of the above lines.

a reply to: opethPA

Well that's just great now but how about you try just giving an answer that's actually on topic and stop all this bad apples/ bad oranges editorializing. Can you find it in yourself to name even one thing that Trump did right or would your head explode? And please don't deviate into another diatribe thanks in advance.

Just one thing...

You can't

TDS 100x
reply to: opethPA

originally posted by: opethPA

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: opethPA
You two believe BIden was fully responsible for Afghanistan.
I believe Trump then Biden were responsible for Afghanistan.
Like so many things in life I bet the truth lies in the middle.

No, and this is where the disconnect is. I am saying, enequivically, and without fear of second guessing myself, that Joe Biden was 100% responsible for the withdraw of the troops, and the way it happened. That is all.

Everyone agreed we needed to leave. The only question was how? Well, Trump came up with a plan, and if he was still president when it came time, then he would have been totally and completely blamed and rightfully so. But he wasn't in office. For almost a year. Can you be blamed for things you can't control, and is that fair? I don't think it is.

As you know from our discussions on other topics, we both have agreed that it's okay to for someone to have opposing perspectives. I am not goign to sit here and say I am right you are wrong nor do I take what you posted as trying to do that.

You know that Biden is 100% to blame in this scenario or more explicitly for the withdraw of the troops, and the way it happened.

I know 100% that Trump agreed to a horrible deal and that Biden fumbled as bad as you can on implementing Trump's deal.

As I said above, most likely the truth lies in the middle of both of the above lines.

My issue lies with this post made by you:

In all my research around the Afghanistan withdrawl I have settled on Trump and Biden both failed in equally catastrophic ways. What and when they failed is different but based on everything i have read they both contributed. .

Yes, Trump made the deal. But as I have stated, and I don't see any way to deny the reality of this, is Trump had nothing to do with the removal of the troops. Complain about the deal all you like, but then again, I haven't seen the deal in writing, so it would be hard to speak with any clarity on it's veracity. But it's just not possible to blame Trump for the withdraw, every bit of that is Joe Biden, and Joe Biden alone.

I think he passed a dementia test. So he got those right.
“Person woman man camera tv” something g like that.
Although that was years ago.
Why did they give him a dementia test at all?

Trumpery

a reply to: spacedoubt

pinhead

⁸

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: opethPA

Well that's just great now but how about you try just giving an answer that's actually on topic and stop all this bad apples/ bad oranges editorializing. Can you find it in yourself to name even one thing that Trump did right or would your head explode? And please don't deviate into another diatribe thanks in advance.

No problem staying on topic even though you brought up hypothetical scenarios.

Ive always said the same thing on many posts here which clearly indicates my TDS. Just like i said on this thread with Trump failing with the deal and Biden failing harder by implementing it.

Trump was an average POTUS and a poor leader. Biden is a poor leader and a very poor POTUS.

a reply to: opethPA

So no matter what the actual topic is, if it is in any way Trump-related, you are going to regurgitate the same thing.
I'd say that does clearly indicate TDS.

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: opethPA

So no matter what the actual topic is, if it is in any way Trump-related, you are going to regurgitate the same thing.
I'd say that does clearly indicate TDS.

To be clear you are claiming that by my saying Trump was bad but Biden is worse. Or saying both Trump and Biden are to blame is an indication of TDS.

If that is accurate then i dont think you know what TDS is. You can get examples of both the for and against TDS while exploring on ATS.

a reply to: opethPA

The title of the OP:

Can you admit Trump was right on a few things?

it's a yes or no question. The fact you can't address it makes your affliction clear.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: spacedoubt

pinhead

Yes he behaves like one. But pinhead denotes a pointy head, like the famous “Zippy”

However, something else he did right was to design, or ask someone else to design, a baseball cap that has a double feature .
It fits people with enlarged craniums, and for smaller heads, it doesn’t mess up comb overs.
Jeenyus! More popular than Trump Steaks!