The Worlds Departure From Organized Religion

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So you don’t have any issues speaking for everyone That’s amazing

Well, in this case, Annee is speaking for me. I'm an atheist, technically agnostic as none of us actually know one way or another.

But I've been in 2 life threatening situations, and in all of them I never once said, "Oh God, please, if you're there, I will do X if you do Y for me..." or anything to that effect.

Not out of spite, or personal arrogance. But because I never felt inclined to, I don't believe in that sort of thing so I saw no 'need' to beg for help from a 'God'.

I DID, however, wish I could see my mum one last time and tell her I loved her (which, thankfully, I did because I didn't die).

So, I think in this case, Annee is accurately representing the sentiments of atheists and rational thinkers everywhere.

Thank you.

When -- the minute -- I stepped completely out of the "God Circle" -- I had an epiphany.

There is no "Go To Guy". I (me) am 100% responsible for me.

Atheist simply means one thing "Lack of belief in a God/Deity". That's it. Nothing else.

If you invoke God -- you're not atheist. Wishful thinking of believers.

Then there is atheist philosophy -- which is an individual's thoughts/belief.

While I do not believe in an religious concept of a god -- I do believe more is going on than we know.

The Worlds Departure From Organized Religion: myths/fairytales had their purpose at one time -- I suppose. Today we have factual information.

a reply to: noonebutme

So, I think in this case, Annee is accurately representing the sentiments of atheists and rational thinkers everywhere.

First off I am glad you survived, but your statement is easily proven false.

André Tacquet: a Jesuit mathematician who worked on infinitesimal calculus and geometry.
Francesco Lana de Terzi: a Jesuit priest and pioneer of aeronautics and cryptography.
Athanasius Kircher: a Jesuit polymath who studied Egyptology, geology, medicine, and linguistics.
Ányos Jedlik: a Benedictine priest and inventor of the electric motor and the dynamo.
Ferdinand Verbiest: a Jesuit missionary and astronomer who served as an advisor to the Chinese emperor.
Francis Bacon: an Anglican philosopher and scientist who is considered the father of the scientific method.
Gregor Mendel: an Augustinian monk and botanist who discovered the laws of genetics.
Nicholas Copernicus: a Catholic cleric and astronomer who proposed the heliocentric model of the solar system.

Would you say these people were not rational thinkers?

Nicholas Copernicus
Sir Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Galileo Galilei
Rene Descartes
Albert Einstein
Arthur Compton
Blaise Pascal

Some more that believed in god or a higher power, are they not rational thinkers?

For a very long time the church and science went hand in hand.
===========
What comes next is just a general rant not directed at you personally.

Why do people on this site continue to make me defend what I dont believe, I have no use for the church but it has played a significant part in society and done a lot of good in helping people deal with tragedy and trauma in their lives.

Yes the Church has done a lot of bad as well no doubt about it and those people according to their faith are going to suffer for eternity because of their actions.

ETA: Annee

There is no "Go To Guy". I (me) am 100% responsible for me

Its called free will and most western religions have some variation of that for quite a long time.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Many people are under the wrong assumption atheist's can't have beliefs.

It's a bit different in philosophical thinking and individual.

Like I said -- atheist means one thing only -- "Lack of belief in a God". Not no God or anti-God.

Spiritual atheist: Spiritual atheists comprise the smallest subset of atheist scientists in the U.S. and U.K. Unlike modernists (who are not spiritual) and culturally religious atheists (who participate in religion), spiritual atheist scientists construct alternative value systems without affiliating with religious traditions. academic.oup.com...

originally posted by: Irishhaf

Would you say these people were not rational thinkers?

Nicholas Copernicus
Sir Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Galileo Galilei
Rene Descartes
Albert Einstein
Arthur Compton
Blaise Pascal

In my opinion, Yes, they were not rational thinkers if they believed in a God or Gods.

And to Annee's point earlier - athesim isn't a 'system of belief' or 'disbelief'. It's simply this:

Believer: There is a God.
Atheist: Can you prove it?
Believer: No.
Atheist: Then I don't believe you.

That's it. Period. Nothing else. No morning sermons or preachings or gatherings in basements. It's as simple as, "I don't believe your claim."

Which is funny, because, I also don't believe in Father Christmas or the Easter Bunny, but no one calls be an aEasterBunniest or an aFatherChrismasist. Why is it such a big deal to 'not' believe in something that has no evidence or observable phenomena? Not having belief isn't something you work at, either.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Mahogany
a reply to: FlyersFan

The shift away from religion is even starker among younger adults, with 43% of 18- to 29-year-old Americans responding "none," when asked which religion they follow.

But fewer than 20% of U.S. adults over 60 are "nones."

I think this also has to do with approaching death. As a whole, yes, the world is absolutely getting less religious. But some of those 'nones' may pick up a religion as they age, in order to make death more palatable.

As the saying goes, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

Except atheists don't say that.

they mostly come around at a certain point, they start in the how could god if he existed allow this then at a certain point its needed to deal with the trauma of combat. There are always exceptions of course.

NO

That is wishful thinking of believers.

So you don’t have any issues speaking for everyone
That’s amazing

If an atheist turns to God - he/she’s not an atheist.

Irrelevant to what I posted
What gives you the right to speak for all atheists
Self righteousness, how very religious of you

the world pivots into and out of structured religions, its why I see us in a reformation like period with the 1 church devolving into 30,000, 1 structed media devolving into 30,000 citizen journalists, and political parties devolving into independents as a shift towards direct democracy becomes the more obvious next evolution of democracy.

the supranational, be it religion, state or media are all heading towards being historical footnotes as we are head away from rather than towards a one world gov, one world religion or one world currency..

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So you don’t have any issues speaking for everyone That’s amazing

Well, in this case, Annee is speaking for me. I'm an atheist, technically agnostic as none of us actually know one way or another.

But I've been in 2 life threatening situations, and in all of them I never once said, "Oh God, please, if you're there, I will do X if you do Y for me..." or anything to that effect.

Not out of spite, or personal arrogance. But because I never felt inclined to, I don't believe in that sort of thing so I saw no 'need' to beg for help from a 'God'.

I DID, however, wish I could see my mum one last time and tell her I loved her (which, thankfully, I did because I didn't die).

So, I think in this case, Annee is accurately representing the sentiments of atheists and rational thinkers everywhere.

I am sure she speaks for a few more, so what
It’s not who she speaks for, it’s who Annee claims she speaks for
Go read her post
Annee and you represent yourself and claim grandeur about all the others you represent
Sheer hubris

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Mahogany
a reply to: FlyersFan

The shift away from religion is even starker among younger adults, with 43% of 18- to 29-year-old Americans responding "none," when asked which religion they follow.

But fewer than 20% of U.S. adults over 60 are "nones."

I think this also has to do with approaching death. As a whole, yes, the world is absolutely getting less religious. But some of those 'nones' may pick up a religion as they age, in order to make death more palatable.

As the saying goes, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

Except atheists don't say that.

they mostly come around at a certain point, they start in the how could god if he existed allow this then at a certain point its needed to deal with the trauma of combat. There are always exceptions of course.

NO

That is wishful thinking of believers.

So you don’t have any issues speaking for everyone
That’s amazing

If an atheist turns to God - he/she’s not an atheist.

Irrelevant to what I posted
What gives you the right to speak for all atheists
Self righteousness, how very religious of you

If you invoke God -- you're not atheist.

Plain and simple.

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: Irishhaf

Would you say these people were not rational thinkers?

Nicholas Copernicus
Sir Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Galileo Galilei
Rene Descartes
Albert Einstein
Arthur Compton
Blaise Pascal

In my opinion, Yes, they were not rational thinkers if they believed in a God or Gods.

I agree with you.

It's always baffled me how a scientist can believe in a religious God.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Mahogany
a reply to: FlyersFan

The shift away from religion is even starker among younger adults, with 43% of 18- to 29-year-old Americans responding "none," when asked which religion they follow.

But fewer than 20% of U.S. adults over 60 are "nones."

I think this also has to do with approaching death. As a whole, yes, the world is absolutely getting less religious. But some of those 'nones' may pick up a religion as they age, in order to make death more palatable.

As the saying goes, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

Except atheists don't say that.

they mostly come around at a certain point, they start in the how could god if he existed allow this then at a certain point its needed to deal with the trauma of combat. There are always exceptions of course.

NO

That is wishful thinking of believers.

So you don’t have any issues speaking for everyone
That’s amazing

If an atheist turns to God - he/she’s not an atheist.

Irrelevant to what I posted
What gives you the right to speak for all atheists
Self righteousness, how very religious of you

If you invoke God -- you're not atheist.

Plain and simple.

Really, you are an amazing person to have worked that out, congratulations
I would tend to agree
One better, if you don’t believe in Jesus, you are not a christian

But , unsurprisingly that’s no more obvious than your statement is it

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Mahogany
a reply to: FlyersFan

The shift away from religion is even starker among younger adults, with 43% of 18- to 29-year-old Americans responding "none," when asked which religion they follow.

But fewer than 20% of U.S. adults over 60 are "nones."

I think this also has to do with approaching death. As a whole, yes, the world is absolutely getting less religious. But some of those 'nones' may pick up a religion as they age, in order to make death more palatable.

As the saying goes, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

Except atheists don't say that.

they mostly come around at a certain point, they start in the how could god if he existed allow this then at a certain point its needed to deal with the trauma of combat. There are always exceptions of course.

NO

That is wishful thinking of believers.

So you don’t have any issues speaking for everyone
That’s amazing

If an atheist turns to God - he/she’s not an atheist.

Irrelevant to what I posted
What gives you the right to speak for all atheists
Self righteousness, how very religious of you

If you invoke God -- you're not atheist.

Plain and simple.

Really, you are an amazing person to have worked that out, congratulations
I would tend to agree
One better, if you don’t believe in Jesus, you are not a christian

But , unsurprisingly that’s no more obvious than your statement is it

So, you want to complicate something that's not complicated.

For what purpose?

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Irishhaf

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Mahogany
a reply to: FlyersFan

The shift away from religion is even starker among younger adults, with 43% of 18- to 29-year-old Americans responding "none," when asked which religion they follow.

But fewer than 20% of U.S. adults over 60 are "nones."

I think this also has to do with approaching death. As a whole, yes, the world is absolutely getting less religious. But some of those 'nones' may pick up a religion as they age, in order to make death more palatable.

As the saying goes, "There are no atheists in foxholes."

Except atheists don't say that.

they mostly come around at a certain point, they start in the how could god if he existed allow this then at a certain point its needed to deal with the trauma of combat. There are always exceptions of course.

NO

That is wishful thinking of believers.

So you don’t have any issues speaking for everyone
That’s amazing

If an atheist turns to God - he/she’s not an atheist.

Irrelevant to what I posted
What gives you the right to speak for all atheists
Self righteousness, how very religious of you

If you invoke God -- you're not atheist.

Plain and simple.

Really, you are an amazing person to have worked that out, congratulations
I would tend to agree
One better, if you don’t believe in Jesus, you are not a christian

But , unsurprisingly that’s no more obvious than your statement is it

Mormon's follow Jesus.

I'm told they're not Christian.

Anyway -- losing our religion -- is a good thing IMO.

God to an atheist in a time of crisis:

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: Irishhaf

Would you say these people were not rational thinkers?

Nicholas Copernicus
Sir Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Galileo Galilei
Rene Descartes
Albert Einstein
Arthur Compton
Blaise Pascal

In my opinion, Yes, they were not rational thinkers if they believed in a God or Gods.

So some of the greatest minds in history were not rational thinkers.

*shrugs* fair enough have a good one.

Believer: There is a God.
Atheist: Can you prove it?
Believer: No.
Atheist: Then I don't believe you.

Can you prove there isnt one, no you cant thats why its called faith.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Can you prove there isnt one, no you cant thats why its called faith.

No, but the onnous isn't on me to prove something doesn't exist. It's no the claimant to prove their claim.

Otherwise, I can claim that you, Irishhaf, abuse children and should go to jail. (I'm not by the way, only for the sake of this debate) Based on your way of thinking, you need to prove it didn't happen. Otherwise, it's true?

Or should it be me, the accuser/claimant, that should prove such an accusation? Or is a prosecutor's/accuser's "faith" enough for to say what's true and what isn't? I should hope not.

I would argue it's me who must prove it. Innocent, until proven guilty. False until proven true. No?

a reply to: noonebutme

Use your rational mind, for hundreds of years there were scientific theories that couldnt be proven till they could, should they have stopped looking. No the scientists had faith that it was there and kept looking till they found it.

Theory for the god particle 1964, discovered 2012 is an easy recent example.

I provide example of scientists that believed in god and you said they werent rational thinkers.

Otherwise, I can claim that you, Irishhaf, abuse children and should go to jail. (I'm not by the way, only for the sake of this debate) Based on your way of thinking, you need to prove it didn't happen. Otherwise, it's true?

Or should it be me, the accuser/claimant, that should prove such an accusation? Or is a prosecutor's/accuser's "faith" enough for to say what's true and what isn't? I should hope not.

I would argue it's me who must prove it. Innocent, until proven guilty. False until proven true. No?

Then the above again I offer you scientific examples you go to emotion... I dont think you would know rational thinking if it hit you in the head with a 2x4.

You said god doesnt exist by your own argument you have to prove it.

No, but the onnous isn't on me to prove something doesn't exist. It's no the claimant to prove their claim.

a reply to: Annee

Think the Mormon Jesus isn’t the biblical Jesus
Anyway, I don’t think you speak for all atheists and their possible moments of regret in a foxhole

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Annee

Think the Mormon Jesus isn’t the biblical Jesus
Anyway, I don’t think you speak for all atheists and their possible moments of regret in a foxhole

REPEAT

Believe in God, you’re not atheist.

You can believe in God, without all the religious baggage.

Our kids are smarter, especially with the internet. In history, they can easily see the murder and plunder caused by religious beliefs, ironically in the "name of God".

Religions definitely have some good attributes, especially with helping the poor and destitute, but since they are based on a hierarchy of power, and need money to survive, it is all about subscription, human made rules and donations.