Noahs Ark and the Biblical World Wide Flood Never Happened

originally posted by: CoyoteAngels
I havent seen the reference in years, but I remember reading that the story in our DNA says that sometime in the past, humans were reduced to just a few thousands individuals. We nearly went extinct.

I immediately thought of the flood.

Scientists seem to agree that around 12,900 years ago there was a cataclysm. What that event entailed seems to be up for debate, but flooding was likely to have been a part of that, as well as flooding at the end of the younger dryas around 11,600 years ago. Not covering the earth, but widespread nonetheless.

So we have two events these stories could have come out of, and they have probably been mixed and matched over the millennia.

originally posted by: marg6043
every ancient civilization talks about a flood, meaning that something epic did happen and it was witnessed all over the earth.

Maybe. Maybe not. Floods are a common thing to nearly every culture. It's inevitable that the primitive people will have stories about floods. Fires and stars and storms too. Kinda common stuff.

At any rate, even if primitive people did have a flood in their culture at some point, it doesn't match the Noahs Ark story in which every person, animal, and plant died. Noahs family was supposedly on the ark for more than a year because of the flood (which is impossible), none of the stories of other cultures matches that.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I tried but I just can't follow what you are trying to say.
I don't know what you are talking about. Sorry.

Um...of course it didn't.

im studying tar-tar-ia now.

everything potentially a skam.

like travis kelsy

a reply to: FlyersFan

First comment. Younger Dryas. A lot of land lost in a very short time frame, not 40 days, but fast enough to spawn an oratory myth worldwide, especially around the Mediterranean. May have also been the later Meltwater pulse 1C.

Meltwater pulse 1C between c. 8.2–7.6 ka, centered at 8.0 ka, a rise of 6.5 m (21 ft) in less than 140 years.

Meltwater Pulse C coincides with the proposed Black Sea Deluge (8000 YBP), where a sudden pulse connected the Black Sea and Mediterranean.

As far as Genesis goes.

I once worked out how much water you'd need to get to the Armenian Highlinds and the alleged location it came to rest. Take all water on earth in any form and you wouldn't be able to get halfway to the base of the highlands. Even all Europa's water isn't enough to make the myth happen.

And the list goes on why everything about it is impossible. Arc size, need for food, animal separation, the story is ridiculous.

Must have just been a parable for what God does when you piss it off.

And finally, "The Arc"



Everybody with the slightest bit of geology laughs their ass off at that picture. In their minds, "Yup, syclines, anticlines, and domes, neat formations though."

a reply to: Klassified

Hmm depends how you look at it... technically it was a time of rapid growth and prosperity. Not really a cataclysmic event since humans didn't have any of the means to establish large settlements until glaciers started to rapidly melt.

Double.

originally posted by: marg6043

... but every ancient civilization talks about a flood, meaning that something epic did happen and it was witnessed all over the earth.

Like already somebody point out, it could have been the ice age coming to an end and the melting of glaciers.

epic, like 1000s of space rocks blasting the western hemisphere Northern ice sheet in a short fortnight of impacts & resulting floods

or a 12,000 year cycle of catastrophes including floods as a result of sun micro-Nova

Earth crustal shift which coincides with poles geographic shift/reversal....giving us a load of Tsuami's
everywhere in a narrow window of time


does not the Genesis account say the 'heavens' opened up and deep springs of water welled up from the Earth... furnished the volume needed to drown the corrupted human bloodlines/DNA

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Klassified

Hmm depends how you look at it... technically it was a time of rapid growth and prosperity. Not really a cataclysmic event since humans didn't have any of the means to establish large settlements until glaciers started to rapidly melt.

You'll have to take it up with academia. This is mainstream science saying there was some sort of cataclysmic event around 13,000 years ago. What that was is debatable. Asteroid? Comet? Solar event? Other? That said, you would be correct that sometime after such an event, there would be growth.

The end of the Younger Dryas about 11,600 years ago would have been different, and I suspect would be more like you are saying, just on higher ground in some areas of the world.

a reply to: Klassified

It wasn't so much an event, just that the rapid change lead to cataclysmic like circumstances. It took nearly 3000 years for the "event" to finish, which started who knows how many years prior, the Pleistocene lasted about 3mill years...

a reply to: FlyersFan

The conspiracy - the Biblical Noahs Ark and world wide flood story is still believed and taught by some people even today even though it has been disproven scientifically, historically, and through archeology.

Back in my young hooligan days I went to a private school. Before I got expelled, we had already been taught literal six days creation in the year 4004 B.C. and literal Noah's Flood (2348 B.C.).

But Australian Aborigines have been on that continent for 50,000 years.

Maybe private schools are not as wonderful as they're touted to be?

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Klassified

It wasn't so much an event, just that the rapid change lead to cataclysmic like circumstances. It took nearly 3000 years for the "event" to finish, which started who knows how many years prior, the Pleistocene lasted about 3mill years...

Oh I see. You're a gradualist. That's cool.

originally posted by: St Udio
does not the Genesis account say the 'heavens' opened up and deep springs of water welled up from the Earth...

Yes, but the information I gave in the opening post shows that there isn't enough water under the Earth or in the atmosphere to fill the Earth as much as Genesis claims - above all the mountain tops.

originally posted by: pthena
Back in my young hooligan days I went to a private school. Before I got expelled, we had already been taught literal six days creation in the year 4004 B.C. and literal Noah's Flood (2348 B.C.).

But Australian Aborigines have been on that continent for 50,000 years.

I gave a link in the opening post showing ancient cultures that survived all through the Noahs Ark Flood time period. Unbroken. The Aborigines were one of those ancient cultures that was uninterrupted. Egypt, India an China were among the others. Obviously there was no flood wiping those people out. Their cultures flourished.

We know for sure the flood never happened. Not enough water on/in Earth for it to happen.


Live Science - Did Noahs Flood Really Happen

The one thing we know for sure from geology is that a global flood never happened," said David Montgomery, a professor of geomorphology at the University of Washington in Seattle and author of "The Rocks Don't Lie: A Geologist Investigates Noah's Flood" (W. W. Norton & Company, 2012). "If you look at it as literally a global flood that covered the world's highest mountains, I'm sorry, there's just not enough water on Earth to do that," he told Live Science.

If the "heavens" opened and all of the water in the atmosphere came down at once as rain, the planet would be submerged — but only to a depth of about 1 inch (2.5 centimeters), according to the U.S. Geological Survey. That's not enough water to justify a canoe, let alone a massive ark.

But what if more than the water in the "heavens" were considered? If all the world's glaciers and ice sheets were to melt, then sea levels would rise by more than 195 feet (60 meters), according to NASA, which would add a bit more water. Moreover, a 2016 study published in the journal Nature Geoscience estimated that there's 5.4 million cubic miles (22.6 million cubic kilometers) of groundwater stored in the upper 1.2 miles (2 km) of Earth's crust, which is enough to cover the land to a depth of 590 feet (180 m). That's a lot of water, but there are cities thousands of feet above sea level, and Mount Everest, the highest mountain on Earth, is more than 29,000 feet (8,849 m) above sea level. On top of that, geologists don't see evidence for a global flood in the rock record.

a reply to: FlyersFan

But there are a lot of similar flood myths.

Is it all Christianized, or did different and separate cultures somehow come up with almost the same story. They swear this was the story before Europe arrived. I'm not so sure, but maybe.

"The Inca’s supreme being and creator god, Con Tici (Kon Tiki) Viracocha, first created a race of giants, but they were unruly, so he destroyed them in a mighty flood and turned them to stone. Following the deluge, he created human beings from smaller stones. "In other versions of this story, the impious race is the pre-Inca civilization of the Tiahuanaco Americans about Lake Titicaca, the large high lake in the Andes. Viracocha drowns them and spares two, a man and a woman, to start the human race anew. Some versions of the Unu Pachakuti have the surviving man and woman floating to Lake Titicaca in a wooden box."

The hard part is trying to find out what the myth was before Christians showed up. They speculate the North American indigenous flood myths are also associated with meltwater surges and not christianized.

If you go through this list:

en.m.wikipedia.org...

You will find that almost all flood myths are from areas subject to river flooding, glacier melt, and sea level rise, with a few outliers, like the Inca.

a reply to: pthena

But Australian Aborigines have been on that continent for 50,000 years.

and have a hilarious flood myth. You know this one is not christianized.

Lizards vs Platypuses: The world became overpopulated with birds, reptiles, and other animals. Therefore, a meeting took place in the Blue Mountains to mitigate this. Tiger Snake planned that birds and animals who have good mobility should migrate to a new country. The lizards, who knew about rainmaking, decided to rid the world of the platypuses, whereby instructing all of their family to perform the rain ceremony. The lizards fled to mountain tops, before a deluge covered the land below, destroying most of the world. The flood eventually ended and there were no platypuses. After some time Carpet Snake observed the existence of platypus. 

A whole lot of information at this site. I've quoted a little. But a good read ...

Talk Origins - Problems with a Global Flood

Implications of a Flood

A global flood would have produce evidence contrary to the evidence we see.

How do you explain the relative ages of mountains? For example, why weren't the Sierra Nevadas eroded as much as the Appalachians during the Flood?

Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series? Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers. [Johnsen et al, 1992,; Alley et al, 1993] A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence. Why doesn't such evidence show up?

How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't regrow quickly. In fact, the Greenland ice cap would not regrow under modern (last 10 ky) climatic conditions.

Why did the Flood not leave traces on the sea floors? A year long flood should be recognizable in sea bottom cores by (1) an uncharacteristic amount of terrestrial detritus, (2) different grain size distributions in the sediment, (3) a shift in oxygen isotope ratios (rain has a different isotopic composition from seawater), (4) a massive extinction, and (n) other characters. Why do none of these show up?

Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating? Tree ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of a catastrophe during that time. [Becker & Kromer, 1993; Becker et al, 1991; Stuiver et al, 1986]

References

Alley, R. B., D. A. Meese, C. A. Shuman, A. J. Gow, K.C. Taylor, P. M. Grootes, J. W. C. White, M. Ram, E. W. Waddington, P. A. Mayewski, & G. A. Zielinski, 1993. Abrupt increase in Greenland snow accumulation at the end of the Younger Dryas event. Nature 362: 527-529.

Becker, B. & Kromer, B., 1993. The continental tree-ring record - absolute chronology, C-14 calibration and climatic-change at 11 KA. Palaeogeography Palaeoclimatology Palaeoecology, 103 (1-2): 67-71.

Becker, B., Kromer, B. & Trimborn, P., 1991. A stable-isotope tree-ring timescale of the late glacial Holocene boundary. Nature 353 (6345): 647-649.

Johnsen, S. J., H. B. Clausen, W. Dansgaard, K. Fuhrer, N. Gundestrap, C. U. Hammer, P. Iversen, J. Jouzel, B. Stauffer, & J. P. Steffensen, 1992. Irregular glacial interstadials recorded in a new Greenland ice core. Nature 359: 311-313.

Stuiver, Minze, et al, 1986. Radiocarbon age calibration back to 13,300 years BP and the 14 C age matching of the German Oak and US bristlecone pine chronologies. IN: Calibration issue / Stuiver, Minze, et al., Radiocarbon 28(2B): 969-979.

And of course we get to the bottom line - the whole purpose of the flood allegedly was for God to rid the world of evil people. Obviously it did not work. So either God is incompetent OR ... the Biblical Noahs Ark flood never happened.

a reply to: Klassified

What would be the opposite of that?
Geological and climate events don't just happen abruptly and if they do they leave a lot more evidence than the Mish mash that guys like Graham Hancock has woven together.