Some Thoughts on the Doctrine of Eternal Annihilation

a reply to: randomuser

What are you talking about?

You can “rest from work” before the year 6000 on the Hebrew calendar if you want or feel the need to.

But according to the Hebrew count since the creation of man, we got a couple hundred years to go before the 7th day. Compared to 6000 years, 200 and some years is very close. Try holding your breath

But seriously, here on Earth, we are not in the days of rest. Who has been resurrected? I doubt anybody here has, bible thumper or not…

Yet I believe the near future of man depends on understanding the prophecy of the 4th commandment.

a reply to: randomuser

Dude have a little faith that your Bible means something other than nonsense. How can you trust in God’s word taking the Bible at face value?

Test out my theory for more than 600 days. 40 days and 40 fortnights.

You probably will notice improvements to your health if you have the will power to not give your money away to Eve!

a reply to: InachMarbank

We entered the 7th day, the day of rest, when Jehovah finished his creative works on earth, which was Eve. The pinnacle of his earthly creations. We are still in that day of rest. The creative days in Genesis are not literal days, nor are they only 1,000 years long. How long they lasted we have no way of knowing, suffice it to say they were long periods of time.

I shared a scripture with you that was inspired by Jehovah God that tells you we remain in his 7th day of rest. Although not all enter into that rest.

ETA:

And unlike many of the clergy of Christendom you may see thumping their Bibles from the pulpit and yelling, I have never thumped on a Bible, and have never used it to berate anyone, nor have I ever raised my voice when discussing the Bible with people. That is pointless and wrong. God's word should be used always in a loving way with people, showing the utmost respect and mildness.

originally posted by: ElGoobero
for those unfamiliar; mainstream Christian Theology holds that the evil humans that defy God will spend eternity suffering in hell.

the Doctrine of Annihilation holds that evil humans will instead be annihilated, meaning they will cease to exist.

Sadly, those are two false choices. The Bible teaches neither.

The Lake of Fire is Reincarnation back here. That is what the Bible teaches. The Unsaved simply have to come back and 'reap what they sowed'. Universalists are closest to the Truth.

The point of Jesus is to rescue us from the reincarnation trap.

a reply to: randomuser

It doesn’t sound like you have received the word of God to me, since you are calling Eve an earthly creation.

I guess you don’t understand the meaning of “rule over thee”

Are you following me?

a reply to: InachMarbank

All it takes is one. Wherever there is one servant of Jehovah the majority is present.

And everybody alive today is a descendant of Noah and his three children Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Noah was a worshiper of the true God Jehovah. That means everyone alive today had an ancestor that worshipped Jehovah, and the only reason anyone is alive today is because that ancestor who worshiped Jehovah was obedient and built the ark.

It may appear that the wicked are in the majority and they are getting away with their evil. But no one gets away with anything. And even more foolish is to try and mess with Jehovah's organization, or one of his servants. That is a really stupid thing to do. What many don't realize is when it comes to Jehovah's named people, his witnesses, they are approaching the property of the living God. And God protects his servants. He said that those who mess with his people, it's like touching the pupil of his eye.

Peace

originally posted by: InachMarbank
a reply to: FlyersFan

What is a soul? And where does scripture say souls live forever?

As brought out in my comment to FlyersFan in another thread (that I linked in my response to NorthOfStuffx2 here):

Mortal and destructible. On the other hand, Matthew 10:28 states that God “can destroy both soul [psy·khenʹ] and body in Gehenna.” This shows that psy·kheʹ does not refer to something immortal or indestructible. There is, in fact, not one case in the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek, in which the words neʹphesh or psy·kheʹ are modified by terms such as immortal, indestructible, imperishable, deathless, or the like. On the other hand, there are scores of texts in the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures that speak of the neʹphesh or psy·kheʹ (soul) as mortal and subject to death (Ge 19:19, 20; Nu 23:10; Jos 2:13, 14; Jg 5:18; 16:16, 30; 1Ki 20:31, 32; Ps 22:29; Eze 18:4, 20; Mt 2:20; 26:38; Mr 3:4; Heb 10:39; Jas 5:20); as dying, being “cut off” or destroyed (Ge 17:14; Ex 12:15; Le 7:20; 23:29; Jos 10:28-39; Ps 78:50; Eze 13:19; 22:27; Ac 3:23; Re 8:9; 16:3), whether by sword (Jos 10:37; Eze 33:6) or by suffocation (Job 7:15), or being in danger of death due to drowning (Jon 2:5); and also as going down into the pit or into Sheol (Job 33:22; Ps 89:48) or being delivered therefrom (Ps 16:10; 30:3; 49:15; Pr 23:14).

All of these Bible scriptures are being contradicted when someone claims "souls live forever", and treats the process of dying as being compatible with that idea (living forever while still dying, but then dying no longer means ceasing to live*, cause otherwise the contradiction would be too obvious).

*: the reality is that even what is called "the second death" in the Bible, is still referring to dying, i.e. "ceasing to live", it's still death after all, the opposite of life. So even if you want to interpret Ezekiel 18:4 as referring to dying the second death, you're still stuck with the fact that dying means not living forever, ceasing to live. So the fact that a soul can die as shown at Ezekiel 18:4 (and the Scriptures listed above), remains incompatible with the notion that "souls live forever" (are immortal).

So what now for the believer in the myth of the immortal soul, interpret all of the mentioned Bible texts as referring to the second death, and then treating that death as not actually dying, not ceasing to live? I guess if you can do it to the clear and unambiguous statement at Ezekiel 18:4 without any reasonable justification (in order to both acknowledge and deny it at the same time, 'the soul dies, but it's not actually dying/ceasing to live, it only dies the second death, which isn't death, cause it only means seperation from God and not ceasing to live, cause otherwise I can't say souls live forever without exposing the contradictory speech'), you can do it to all of them. But to those who haven't been indoctrinated with this teaching, the contradictions (both internal and the contradiction to these Scriptures) just become more and more obvious if you do that. You're also painting with a broad brush if you want to interpret all these texts as referring to the second death (especially since no mention is made of the second death in these texts, cause it's not the subject there). Convenient (for the believer in the immortal soul), but not very reasonable.

I just tried to look at the first one listed there, Gen 19:19,20, from the perspective of someone like FlyersFan, who would need to interpret this as referring to the second death as he does with Ezekiel 18:4 (to remain at least somewhat consistent and coherent). So I tried to interpret it as referring to dying the second death as well, but I can't make it work no matter what acrobatics I try. There's just no way one can logically and coherently interpret Gen 19:19,20 as referring to dying the second death, or any other type of reference to the second death mentioned at Rev 21:8. Or let's say, I can find no way at least, pardon the hyperbole before (but that does express my feelings better, 'there's just no way man').

originally posted by: randomuser
And everybody alive today is a descendant of Noah and his three children Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

THe Noahs Ark story never happened. It's a Hebrew rip off of the Summeritan Giglimesh story. It's not to be taken literally. There is ZERO chance it's a true story. Science has disproven it beyond any doubt.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
What is a soul? And where does scripture say souls live forever?

the soul is the actual person. It's YOU, not the shell of a body.
And scripture states the souls live forever, eternally, either in Heaven or in Hell.

Just two examples of many in the Bible ... and we have been talking about them ....

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" Matthew 25:41

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

This is my final word on this topic. I have made my point even if the Jehovahs Witness' want to do mental gymnastics and think otherwise. ETERNAL means forever. It's just that simple.

/out

a reply to: FlyersFan

Everlasting punishment sounds like one being annihilated when one dies. Dying is punishment, and it lasts forever. Irreversible.

And eternal life sounds like not dying, and living forever.

Simple as that. Seems like you’re looking for something that can’t be found. Life after death.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: randomuser
And everybody alive today is a descendant of Noah and his three children Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

THe Noahs Ark story never happened. It's a Hebrew rip off of the Summeritan Giglimesh story. It's not to be taken literally. There is ZERO chance it's a true story. Science has disproven it beyond any doubt.

I realize that many Catholics don't believe in God or the Bible. And in fact many of their leaders, priests, and bishops don't either. Some are outright atheists. It is no wonder their followers don't believe the word of God.

But there is indeed evidence that the great flood took place. And in any event Jesus Christ, who was alive during that time, confirmed the veracity of the account:

"For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the Flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and they took no note until the Flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be."-Matthew 24:37-39.

Also the apostle Peter referred to the great deluge as a real event:

"And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water."-1 Peter 3:19-20.

"For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. "-2 Peter 3:5-6.

a reply to: whereislogic

Seems to me the challenge interpreting the Bible is to figure out when it means “little death” (orgasm) or actual death (annihilation).

I think we can say, the crucifixion of Jesus, little death.

I'd advise 2 Peter.

Listen to 2 Peter

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: InachMarbank
What is a soul? And where does scripture say souls live forever?

the soul is the actual person. It's YOU, not the shell of a body.

Incorrect.

A Soul is a Lifeform's Genome. It is the information required to create the Body using the Spirit as energy.

The Word was made flesh. A Soul is a separate entity.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

And scripture states the souls live forever, eternally, either in Heaven or in Hell.

Incorrect.

Both Body *and* Soul can be destroyed...

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

originally posted by: FlyersFan

Just two examples of many in the Bible ... and we have been talking about them ....

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" Matthew 25:41

Again, the Bible teaches that the Lake of Fire is Reincarnation.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46

Eternal Punishment (actual meaning is 'correction') is a *location*. We currently exist in that location.

Eternal Life is the New Heavens and New Earth.

People choose to go to one or the other.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
a reply to: FlyersFan

Everlasting punishment sounds like one being annihilated when one dies. Dying is punishment, and it lasts forever. Irreversible.

And eternal life sounds like not dying, and living forever.

Simple as that. Seems like you’re looking for something that can’t be found. Life after death.

Everlasting Punishment (Everlasting Correction) is a location, not a 'state of being'.

We currently exist in that location.

Eternal Life is the New Heavens and New Earth.

Christians twist the meanings of verses regarding Hell and the Lake of Fire to make God look evil.

a reply to: UncleMikey

Sounds like Hell. But I was talking about what remains of a person’s consciousness after true death.

Summarizing what you said above, a soul is a separate entity, genetic information, charged by a spirit.

I think your statement is correct, but I’m not seeing anything in that statement that tells me death is not annihilation.

My genetic information appears to be reincarnated into my offspring. But my consciousness doesn’t transfer to my offspring.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
a reply to: UncleMikey

Sounds like Hell. But I was talking about what remains of a person’s Consciousness after true death.

From a Biblical perspective, a person's consciousness resides in the Spirit and not the Soul as many believe.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
a reply to: UncleMikey
Summarizing what you said above, a soul is a separate entity, genetic information, charged by a spirit.

That is what I believe.

Body = Flesh
Soul = Genetic Information
Spirit = Electromagnetism/Energy

originally posted by: InachMarbank
a reply to: UncleMikey
I think your statement is correct, but I’m not seeing anything in that statement that tells me death is not annihilation.

The Bible teaches that when a person dies physically, they are now Soul and Spirit, minus the Body.

They either go to Abraham's Bosom or Torments/Hell. Both are temporary locations until resurrection.

After resurrection, the Saved get a new Glorified Body while the Unsaved get reincarnated back here into another corrupt Body. That is called the Second Death.

The Soul Genome of the Saved gets 'upgraded', while the Soul Genome of the Unsaved gets 'downgraded' in a sort of 'memory wipe/purification' process in the Lake of Fire.

Note that Spirit (where Consciousness exists) is never destroyed. It is a part of God that has always existed and always will exist. It is the Spirit that is immortal.

originally posted by: InachMarbank
a reply to: UncleMikey
My genetic information appears to be reincarnated into my offspring. But my consciousness doesn’t transfer to my offspring.

Your offspring will most likely be a reincarnation of someone's Spirit that came out of the Lake of Fire.

If not, they are newly conceived for the first time.

Either way, we were all the Morning Stars that sang together in the Book of Job. We have always existed.

a reply to: UncleMikey

I don’t have the same belief as you of consciousness, and my interpretation of Luke 16 is different too:

If I were truly to die, then I believe all my awareness would be gone. No longer conscious. And no longer unconscious. Annihilated. My energy signature and genetic information may be stored somewhere. But I have no awareness of that.

As for the death of Lazarus, that wasn’t truly a death. It was a little death (orgasm). As for his resurrection, that only happened because he fasted from the pleasure of experiencing little deaths. As for the man who continues to give himself the sumptuous pleasures of little deaths, his torment will wax greater and greater, until he suffers true death.

The second death is if you fall back onto old bad habits, after being resurrected. The crucifixion of Christ was his second death. I don’t think he had to fast as long after the 2nd death to get the monkey off his back, as he did the first time. Maybe 300 days was the 2nd fast. Tear down this temple and I will build it back in 3 days.

The lake of fire I think is what happens to the cherubims of death in hell, when the person they are married to on earth fasts for too long. They get too hot. Then the person on earth fasting for long enough is hung red. The energy line between the person and Heaven is red for life. Their spirit and/or soul is upgraded. A white energy line feeding up to the Heavens is an example of a person who is dying.

I consider myself a Bible scholar but I have no idea what is being said. you guys lost me pages ago.

thanks for an interesting discussion even if I don't comprehend it.

remember, if your heart is right with God, the annihilation stuff won't matter.

a reply to: randomuser

I will night
If it was truly Gods organisation, it wouldn’t be harbouring pedophiles, JW,org is Satan’s organisation and it had demons running it, no different from the papacy
Watchtower is satans tower, it’s highground, watchtower is a satanic kingdom of child abusers.
You and I may agree on the fact humanity is not eternal, understand that is not jw,org only teaching, many Protestant churches believe that

Many Protestant churches think watchtower and jw,org is satans organisation, for abusing children
How can watchtower be Godly when it’s run by satan worshipers who protect child abusers
www.bible.ca...

I don’t hate you random user, just want you to answer me and do some research, of course, you are forbidden to research anything that isn’t watchtower

Your watchtower messes with little children and you deny it, think about that when you quote scripture