Ego vs Self

a reply to: XXXN3O

Reminds me of my favorite song of 2023, even the duality of wolf-self thing.

a reply to: Degradation33

I've got a question about non-duality.

I read some Wikipedia that Neo-Platonists and Gnostics were labeled dualists because they taught that Spirit is Good and Material is Bad.

If I reject Neo-platonism and Gnosticism, is that enough to call myself non-dualist?

a reply to: pthena

Oww.... thinking...

I have to read about Plato now. I don't want to work that hard. Plato was dualist. Neo platonists would be the first Irony philosophy if they didn't mirror his default duality.

I guess it depends why you reject Neoplatonism. If it's a question of attainment of perfection, and how it occurs, it might disqualify.

I keep seeing neopolitanism. But that would be a Triune I think.

So I'll just say, "Depends on reason"

And gnostics can be nondual. Gnostics can do the Star Wars thing, and there's only application of a singular force, used with an objectively or subjectively defined dark and light side.

And it doesn't necessarily make you a dualist to have a code of honor/dishonor, right/wrong, bad/good. The things that become morality occur naturally through survival mechanisms alone. Like the code of wolves. They have a right/wrong too. More pecking order related, but there are respect codes that occur without perception of duality needed.

There's always caveats for personal ethos.

a reply to: Degradation33

The why is that I don't think material is bad. I don't even know what Spirit is. Physically spirit is breath. Breath isn't bad. I rather like breathing.

If Spirit is laws of physics and chemistry, that doesn't seem bad either.
=======
Now for ethics. Stoics are called determinists and yet they develop a rather nice ethics of choosing. I don't know how that is Determinism.

a reply to: pthena

Spirit gets too lost in being intrinsic it's hard to see it naturally occurring.

Spirit, to me, is an 'organizing principle' (stolen term) for something unique to animals smartest, with most defined will to live. Mammals, Marsupials, and Birds mostly.

Like with crows, my favorite bird.

They have never been taught of duality. Yet if you sit on your porch and feed one, they may come back. And then they'll bring friends. And then they'll bring you things.

Even crows have this code and concept of "paying it back".

As far as I know there's no Corvid Jesus that teaches "you will leave shiny things on the railing in exchange for cheese corn." To me that says there are innate codes, that are often warm and fuzzy, that arise naturally.

I don't know if programmed by natural selection or what, but that's spirit to me.

a reply to: Degradation33

I kind of miss the ravens. They did tricks for bread crumbs. One time this raven imitated a squirrel after I told it "those are for the squirrels". It was funny.

Okay. Spirit = Innate code part of organizing principle.

That sounds good. Spirit organizes matter, at least beings.

Thank you. It might be good for me to not worry about philosophy words, they seem contradictory most of the time.

a reply to: Peeple

Yeah the thing is, it's only a handful of toxic people like you who feel threatened by anything that challenges their programmed beliefs. I've gotten numerous replies and PMs saying the opposite and wondering where my views come from. What you're trying to pull is a common tactic, but you're not very good at it. Apparently, this forum has become so toxic that any real communication happens thru PMs because people got tired of the likes of you trying to kill, not promote discussion.

I'll be done here pretty soon and you can have your little Stepford community back to yourselves.

a reply to: pthena

It doesn't matter what you call yourself, you're in a dual state of consciousness and those two states are at war within us to varying degrees, depending on your own strength of will. There are two ways to achieve non-duality... a return to the the purely subjective state, aka "ascension" which was the goal of all religions prior to Christianity, and "resurrection" which a marriage of our two opposing states of consciousness into a single quantum state. Which option you have available depends on what you've done with your time here. Nobody in the history of Humanity has ever chosen ascension over resurrection when the option is available.

a reply to: HeirHeart

oh I see you're another one of those: projecting your paranoid inferiority complex on to everybody who dares to not fall on their knees in front of the astonishing bs you spout....

lol
discussion didn't even happen I was just pointing out that you do come across as if you are entirely clueless and condescending to everybody who is smarter than you. We didn't talk about the topic, just that accusations in contentless one liners don't make anybody think you are smart.
Just pretentious.

I really hope this site is toxic to people like you, because your input is nothing but misleading self-presentation.


I mean if you talk on topic for a change stuff like this comes out:

There are two ways to achieve non-duality... a return to the the purely subjective state, aka "ascension" which was the goal of all religions prior to Christianity, and "resurrection" which a marriage of our two opposing states of consciousness into a single quantum state.

I bet you don't even realise how funny that is, do you?
Because you don't know what ascension means and apparently don't understand the concept of reurrection either, but to top it off you add quantum state to erase all doubts that you really don't know what you are talking about.

a reply to: Peeple

Why is it folks like you always start by talking out of both sides of your mouth, accusing others of what YOU'RE doing, even as you're doing it? It's another common tactic you don't seem to be very good at, or realize how obvious it is to others outside of your toxic little bubble.

You've made your intentions clear and I have better things to do with my time. I'm gonna go rinse off now and get rid of the stench of interacting with you.

a reply to: HeirHeart

crawl back in your bubble of meaningless big words... maybe you reach a quantum state there, right?
lol

a reply to: HeirHeart

Wow! I was just learning about Shadow last night.

In analytical psychology, the shadow (also known as ego-dystonic complex, repressed id, shadow aspect, or shadow archetype) is an unconscious aspect of the personality that does not correspond with the ego ideal, leading the ego to resist and project the shadow. In short, the shadow is the self's emotional blind spot, projected (as archetypes—or, metaphorical sense-image complexes, personified within the collective unconscious); e.g., trickster
...
The eventual encounter with the shadow plays a central part in the process of individuation. Jung considered that "the course of individuation...exhibits a certain formal regularity. Its signposts and milestones are various archetypal symbols" marking its stages; and of these "the first stage leads to the experience of the shadow.
...
"Assimilation of the shadow gives a man body, so to speak,"[15]: 239  thereby providing a launch pad for further individuation. "The integration of the shadow, or the realization of the personal unconscious, marks the first stage in the analytic process ... without it a recognition of anima and animus is impossible."
en.wikipedia.org...(psychology)

Months ago I noticed that I had a Tourette syndrome type thing happening. I was randomly saying certain phrases; "Help me I'm evil", "How did I get to be so evil?", "Evil doer", and "I quit". That could be the encounter with the Shadow.

It's been days now sinse I've said those phrases for no apparent reason. Maybe I am assimilating; giving "a man body, so to speak" first stage of recognizing anima and animus. I'm a post Christian, so I understand the concept of resurrection more than ascension.

Reading poetry and watching music videos is really helping me a lot. I'm rather glad to not be saying "evil" just randomly. There may just be hope for me after all.

Thank you.

a reply to: Peeple

Hey peeps! (excuse my familiar address)

I just wanted to thank you for bringing up hanging with the gods the other day.

It caused me to remember what ascension felt like so long ago, albeit rising on the words of Lucretius.

Good times. Good times.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: HeirHeart

Wow! I was just learning about Shadow last night.

In analytical psychology, the shadow (also known as ego-dystonic complex, repressed id, shadow aspect, or shadow archetype) is an unconscious aspect of the personality that does not correspond with the ego ideal, leading the ego to resist and project the shadow. In short, the shadow is the self's emotional blind spot, projected (as archetypes—or, metaphorical sense-image complexes, personified within the collective unconscious); e.g., trickster
...
The eventual encounter with the shadow plays a central part in the process of individuation. Jung considered that "the course of individuation...exhibits a certain formal regularity. Its signposts and milestones are various archetypal symbols" marking its stages; and of these "the first stage leads to the experience of the shadow.
...
"Assimilation of the shadow gives a man body, so to speak,"[15]: 239  thereby providing a launch pad for further individuation. "The integration of the shadow, or the realization of the personal unconscious, marks the first stage in the analytic process ... without it a recognition of anima and animus is impossible."
en.wikipedia.org...(psychology)

Months ago I noticed that I had a Tourette syndrome type thing happening. I was randomly saying certain phrases; "Help me I'm evil", "How did I get to be so evil?", "Evil doer", and "I quit". That could be the encounter with the Shadow.

It's been days now sinse I've said those phrases for no apparent reason. Maybe I am assimilating; giving "a man body, so to speak" first stage of recognizing anima and animus. I'm a post Christian, so I understand the concept of resurrection more than ascension.

Reading poetry and watching music videos is really helping me a lot. I'm rather glad to not be saying "evil" just randomly. There may just be hope for me after all.

Thank you.

I do that.

I will say weird similar things when I try to push an uncomfortable thought back into my mind. "You're gonna die!" comes out alot. I think my mind has an anti-repression mechanism now.

Tourettes is probably a good example. There's late onset varieties that happen with moderate or worse PTSD. I think I read repression of memory is like full on tourettes trying to repress their tics. It accumulates over time and forces itself out.

It really has all the makings of possession. And I can see why that has been the goto answer for millenia. You saying that to most here would hands down surmise "it's a demon".

I think "daemon" is better. Something from the unconscious.

The definition: "Power or spirit, genius". The untapped potential of the mind, which as it may turn out, could have some degree of effect in ways we have yet to really be able to observe. Have influences that can't be quantified. So it takes on the Greek meaning, and acts as it's own intermediary with the godhead. (A la Emenationism).

And then you get into the possibility it's just a massive interconnected continuum of all things sefirot-related. Any tree of life or flow related maxim usually comes into play about this point.

In itself it is it's own rabbit hole that can actually mindf*** people beyond recognition.

a reply to: Degradation33

I think "daemon" is better. Something from the unconscious.
So it ... acts as it's own intermediary with the godhead. (A la Emenationism).

That sounds exactly like what happens. The broken off piece on my hubris thread. Never Alone.

Not much familiar with sefirot, better look that up. I think I can go a ways with Emenationism, probably not to logical conclusions. Just a bit without getting lost in the rabbit hole.

I accidently remembered a Jesus quote about angels, but I'll keep it to myself.

a reply to: pthena

Sefirot - EVERYTHING IS GOD.

This is probably the best thing I ever came across on that concept:

www.jaymichaelson.net...

Summed up here:

Kabbalah, the Jewish mystical tradition. For 700 years, Kabbalists have insisted that God is not some old man in the sky, but is everything we see and everything we are. According to the Kabbalah, this webpage is God — and so are you.

Strangely, this is compatible even if you feel "god" is a mislabelling of an illusion presented by the material natural order of things.

a reply to: Degradation33

Thanks. Open now.

a reply to: Degradation33

I read the page linked to, the Wikipedia on Rabbi Dr. Jay Michaelson, a couple of his articles linked from his web page. Seems legit.

"If everything is One, then Two is One also". A quote from a dualist based on Michaelson's non-dualism. I found that on another webpage.

I will see if I can finagle a way to get the book. I usually give cash to a guy with a Prime Account. If I can get a ride to an ATM then it should work out.

a reply to: pthena

I didn't pay. I found a free PDF somewhere. That's not really a book I go out of my way to buy, but I liked it enough to recommend it. Anything that deanthropomorphizes conceptions of divinity. And this book is about at the limit of that in the abrahamic religion. It's refreshing for the "universe itself is the alpha and omega" types.

Perhaps initially locked up as potential energy in some zero point or condensate form that simultaneously covers scientific and theological requirements. But that's all priori. And my experience crawling upon its phenomenon is most certainly posteriori, at least when I look at it.

Beyond that, it's unknowable.

a reply to: XXXN3O

Id Disagree .