NATO training leaves Ukrainian troops ‘underprepared’ for war

a reply to: Imhere

"Many believe Putin is a chess player and “reserved”."

Many believe the exact opposite.


"A long career experienced politician there right now."

Former street thug and ex KGB dictator, you mean?

a reply to: JAY1980

There is no 'equal opponent' to the U.S. military. The entire world knows that. The Pentagon calls our adversaries 'near peer' for a reason

"If we had given Zelenskyy everything he needed 18 months ago, Putin would have given up and returned home."

-A FoxNews Military Analyst this morning.

TRUE or FALSE?

a reply to: Xtrozero
A quite very important, relevant, whataboutism, about NATO and Russia. A very serious question for you:- What would USA do if Russia put nuclear weapons on Cuba? Don't answer me that cos I know, the USA had kittens, crapping their pants till Kennedy resolved it peacefully. And Cuba does not even have a border with the US.

originally posted by: carewemust
"If we had given Zelenskyy everything he needed 18 months ago, Putin would have given up and returned home."

-A FoxNews Military Analyst this morning.

TRUE or FALSE?

Well, we couldn't as we need to train them on our equipment. A win for Ukraine is Russia not advancing, so the first year was a big win for Ukraine. What do you think is going to happen when the fighter pilots are ready and the F-16/f-15 and maybe the A-10 enter the battlefield for Ukraine? Drones are also going to the more advanced ones while the ones made with tape and chewing gum have been very successful. Ukraine is slowly pushing Russia back no matter what Russia does this summer and soon there can be huge gains as the FEBAs are broken and Russia needs to regroup.

Then we have another winter coming and Russia is in deep doo doo at the domestic level of feeding and providing energy to their own people.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Your analysis indicates we are NOT getting involved in yet another "forever war". I hope you're right. Thank-you for the detailed explanation.

-cwm

originally posted by: carewemust

Your analysis indicates we are NOT getting involved in yet another "forever war". I hope you're right. Thank-you for the detailed explanation.

-cwm

I think we will see a better picture next spring once the fighting kind of ends for the winter.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Hi, is there any kind of way for the two of us to make an online wager through an escrow or something?? The way your writing, I can expect some easy money. F-16's are not going to make some game changer, or whatever the Ukraine pilots manage to not break, crash or steal parts from that actually make it into the air are not well suited against current Russian air defenses. There are no Ukrainian pilots with any experience with this type of jet. You want to flash train folks on a foreign system and then send them into combat against an opponent with extensive experience on their own systems whose modern versions all but make the surplus donations obsolete. Essentially operated by rookies with equally dated air defenses.

Please please please bet me money. I'll go up to five hundred.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

Please please please bet me money. I'll go up to five hundred.

Well, they are already been training in simulators and started actually flying recently with F-16s. They are also training in A-10 simulators in anticipation of maybe getting their hands on some of the aging fleet.

So let's do the math... 6 to 12 months to train a fighter pilot from an already experienced pilot. 10 months would be next May. The company I work for has already trained 100s in different countries on advanced drone operation. Training in everything is ongoing. A Stryker isn't simple to operate and they have like 100 on the battlefield right now.

So are you suggesting we will not see F-16s on their side flying next summer?

a reply to: Xtrozero

No my statement was that f-16's will not do well against modern Russian air defense systems, especially considering these will also be stripped of more advanced electronics and computers as part of export controls as these systems and tanks often are when exported to a business partner and not a strategic ally like Britain, Turkey, Italy etc..

It would be simpler to train Ukrainians on Soviet systems than NATO ones, and as a result will show in combat effectiveness. So my suggestion is, don't get upset when they fall out of the sky like so many other jets and drones already have.

This pushback you refer to which has cost over 40,000 lives in three months and now approaching 50,000 dead has resulted in a handful of square kilometers of bombed out rubble which were previously villages and hamlets. And they don't even maintain full control. Sacrificing 50,000 men for a few square kilometers (you can count them on your hands) of rubble does not math out very well for the future.

Now mind you, I am ok with any boost in share prices as a result or contracts to replace the loaned out jets. Remember every bullet, tank, drone and jet will be paid back with interest for the next eighty years regardless of who wins.

It's just , imo anyways, an unfair loss of life. These men aren't fighting because they believe they can win, they are being ordered under duress by a foreign power to commit suicide and they know it. The only explanation for recent mass surenders. I even seen video of an asshole commander throwing a grenade into a bunker of two subordinates who refuse his orders to go back to the front to commit suicide. He sure dealt with that insubordination.

With CO's like that, who needs enemies?? The war is lost man, our parasite system is simply trying to extract every last loan commitment they can with these "Military aid packages" they will pay for decades to come while securing new contracts to replace the obsolete donations/loans .

Not to mention all the poor Ukrainian women who will now be trafficked as sex workers in Europe and North America. Cheap disposable Ukrainian hookers are already making the rounds here in Florida.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

No my statement was that f-16's will not do well against modern Russian air defense systems,

I agree if they have the systems in play. A big part would be to focus on taking them out first and keeping the area clear.

This pushback you refer to which has cost over 40,000 lives in three months and now approaching 50,000 dead has resulted in a handful of square kilometers of bombed out rubble which were previously villages and hamlets. And they don't even maintain full control. Sacrificing 50,000 men for a few square kilometers (you can count them on your hands) of rubble does not math out very well for the future.

IDK, what would be your answer here? Russia is the invader here, so what do you want them to do? Ukrainians are basically Russian in many ways, but they actually hate the Russians. You seem to have some image they are going from village to village rounding up everyone over 18 and turning them into cannon fodder, and that is just not the case.

It's just , imo anyways, an unfair loss of life. These men aren't fighting because they believe they can win, they are being ordered under duress by a foreign power to commit suicide and they know it. The only explanation for recent mass surenders. I even seen video of an asshole commander throwing a grenade into a bunker of two subordinates who refuse his orders to go back to the front to commit suicide. He sure dealt with that insubordination.

What you wrote above sounds more like the Russians. We are not seeing millions of Ukrainian men fleeing the country like we are seeing in Russia. I work directly with them and they are some motivated people. They want the training done quicker so they can kill Russians... Most Ukrainians work in small teams that are very coordinated and do quick attacks and drop back. Whatever you saw isn't what the vast majority are doing. 10,000s are being trained as we speak, 10,000s have already been trained. This isn't Russians that are giving 3 days of training and sending the men to the front.

Not to mention all the poor Ukrainian women who will now be trafficked as sex workers in Europe and North America. Cheap disposable Ukrainian hookers are already making the rounds here in Florida.

What do you think a victory for Ukraine would look like here? Russia is not doing well at all. They are losing ground and the only thing preventing the Ukranians from taking huge areas at a time is the massive defense systems of trenches and mines the Russians have placed there as the Russians have blown up everything in their path.

I see so much negative against Ukraine and nothing against the actual evil that created this mess.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Cool. Russia ran out of missiles last year, their economy has collapsed and billions of Russians are starving as we speak. Their leader was overthrown by a mutiny, and the masses are rising against their government.

All I want from Ukraine is for all of their males to march into a wood chipper so I can rent their women as disposable hookers after they are smuggled over here and forced to do the nasty with me.

I don't think its that much to ask for.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
a reply to: Xtrozero
Cool. Russia ran out of missiles last year, their economy has collapsed and billions of Russians are starving as we speak. Their leader was overthrown by a mutiny, and the masses are rising against their government.

All I want from Ukraine is for all of their males to march into a wood chipper so I can rent their women as disposable hookers after they are smuggled over here and forced to do the nasty with me.

I don't think its that much to ask for.

Well, first I don't think you could afford them...

You know, the world turns as the world turns. Why do you care so much? Want to talk about Africa as Russia prevents the needed grains to get there as millions starve?

The world sucks and you happened to get a golden ticket congrats...

You might need to hold out for the Ukrainian hookers or go to Asia where most of the Russian ones go. Looking at my feed about 5 different ones are saying the Russians are collapsing and that is how things normally end up. Hard pushes met with hard resistance with no movement for a good while then BAM! sh!it caves in as the defenses collapse and there is nothing in the back to fill in the gaps.

BTW it looks like Ukraine is getting 42 F-16s soon and that is a start, they are not even from the US yet.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Cool, they can fly the hookers over here at Mach 3. The sooner the better. Seems like Europe is getting most of them though.
Don't bother explaining to me the logistical imposibility of getting more than one person on an F-16. All that means is Denmark will soon be signing contracts for replacement jets over the next few years.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
Cool, they can fly the hookers over here at Mach 3. The sooner the better. Seems like Europe is getting most of them though.
Don't bother explaining to me the logistical imposibility of getting more than one person on an F-16. All that means is Denmark will soon be signing contracts for replacement jets over the next few years.

F-16s come in 2 seats too...

a reply to: Xtrozero
I suppose if we just let them lap up we could certainly get them here faster. Im curious to see how these jets dont get bombed the moment they land on whatever runways Ukraine has left which can actually accommodate these jets. I suspect if they are based and launched from Poland and Romania, the Russians will just engage them with their defensive systems the moment they cross the border.

Bless your convictions though! I plan to check in on this conversation around March next year. I am setting a reminder right now so as not to forget.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry

Bless your convictions though! I plan to check in on this conversation around March next year. I am setting a reminder right now so as not to forget.

Bless your little heart too.

I think in the end it will depend on how much AA Russia can keep within a working area of the front line area.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Well considering Kiev is within the operational range of S-400 and S-500 family of defense systems while still being within border of Russia proper, I do not believe there will be an issue with deployment of these systems to cover the "front line" so to speak.

originally posted by: worldstarcountry
Well considering Kiev is within the operational range of S-400 and S-500 family of defense systems while still being within border of Russia proper, I do not believe there will be an issue with deployment of these systems to cover the "front line" so to speak.

We will see, seems only you think they are toast.

a reply to: Xtrozero
yea, sure. I cannot wait to hear your excuses next year.