NATO training leaves Ukrainian troops ‘underprepared’ for war

One would imagine for Ukraine to have a chance this needs to change. One would also imagine that NATO training really ought to be Russia specific, instead NATO's battlefield tactics are based on an inferior and ill-equipped Iraqi or Afghanistani.

Sounds as if they are sending troops into the meat grinder without any seasoning, the passage about the minefields was telling. Supposedly Russia has extensive minefields kilometers wide and NATO training spends 2 hours on the subject.

www.opendemocracy.net...

Western instructors don’t understand the kind of war or enemy that we’re fighting, say Ukrainian soldiers

Ukrainian soldiers are being left underprepared for the realities of Russia’s war because of a disconnect between NATO and domestic military training, according to one frontline brigade.

So far, more than 60,000 Ukrainian soldiers have taken part in military training in the West.

“I don’t want to say anything against our partners, but they don’t quite understand our situation and how we are fighting,” said a senior intelligence sergeant in the newly formed 41st Mechanised Brigade who goes by the name ‘Dutchman’. “That’s why the main training and the integrated training happens here.”

All receive a 35-day ‘boot camp’ of basic soldier training. A source involved in the UK training process described it as a “crash course” and the most that could be provided in the time available. They pointed out that a big plus was the thousands of pounds’ worth of equipment, including body armour and medical supplies, the Ukrainian troops take home with them.

A key concern about the Western training is that the instructors have never fought a war of this kind, or against an enemy like Russia. For years, Western armies and their defence industries have focused on fighting insurgencies in the Middle East.

“For the most part, [Western instructors] have fought wars in cities and towns – urban settings. We are on flat ground a lot of the time,” said Dutchman.

“We need people to understand how to effectively clear trenches, enter them, how to throw grenades effectively, how not to trip on booby traps, to understand what grenades the [Russians] throw – essentially to understand the enemy,” explained Dutchman.

a reply to: putnam6

Two hours is better than none.
When I was active duty, we got two days.

Yeah 35 days is really not enough for boot camp under ideal conditions. But these are hardly ideal conditions, they are actively at war.

It's amazing what you can absorb in 35 days when you know your family's lives are in danger and this is the only option to protect them.

Better than nothing. Pretty much the whole world is helping them to some extent. So shut up, take what you’re given and do the rest yourselves. No matter how good the training, the young lads storming Omaha beach could never have been adequately prepared for what they faced. War can be hell and you often find yourself ill prepared for certain situations. If you live long enough you gain experience. That counts the most.

What do you think Russia is doing now?

a reply to: putnam6

British MI6 were hell bent on funding and supplying the ethnic cleansing of Christian's in their very home the Middle East. Now they move on to gun fodder young 16 years old Slavic lads to 'take it to the Russian's.' I guess nothing has changed since they sent 1,000,000 (one million of our own children) over the trenches to be murdered in the most horrific way for their insane dreams of success

originally posted by: Xtrozero
What do you think Russia is doing now?

Defending their nation from NATOfication and EU bullsh*t cock p*ss encroachment and colonisation into the 'free world'

originally posted by: ADVISOR
a reply to: putnam6

Two hours is better than none.
When I was active duty, we got two days.

So thank you for your service but.

Respectfully unless you fought against Russia in the 21st century, it probably doesn't matter. Not to mention

What in the Sam hell does that have to do with the thread?

The Russians have sewn huge minefields that funnel Ukraine troops into highly defended areas, it's one reason the Ukrainians are using so many artillery shells, UAVs, etc.

Yea, I know the mantra Improvise, Adapt, Overcome but that only goes so far when the opposition has a 3-1 troop ratio advantage.

If you read the article, you probably didn't, but what's the point in sending unprepared troops when you are fighting against a force with superior numbers?

LOL by the tone of the responses sounds like nobody gives AF, if we send billions to Ukraine and they still lose. Sounds like people are just glad to be pissing off Putin, no matter the financial cost and how many it kills doing so. What AFing waste

Hell Im against how much the US has sent and spent because it was obvious from the get-go that there was no way Ukraine could win without enough TROOPS.

This means NATO troops which would be stupid AF to do as well.

So in the end we spend billions, prolong the war, killing more and more civilians and Russia still holds the eastern oblasts and Crimea. By November it will be winter again and its cycles all over again.

all the while

understandingwar.org...

Iran, Russia, and the Syrian Regime are Coordinating to Expel US Forces from Syria

August 3, 2023

The Institute for the Study of War (ISW) published this article with support from the Critical Threats Project (CTP) at the American Enterprise Institute.

Iran, Russia, and the Syrian regime are coordinating a coercive campaign to expel the United States from Syria. This campaign poses a serious risk to US forces in Syria and US interests in the Middle East.[1] Iran and the Syrian regime have surged forces and materiel to the line of contact with the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in northeastern Syria from July 7 through July 12.[2] Both have deployed additional forces and materiel to the area since then at lower rates. The Iranian and Syrian deployments to eastern Syria have occurred alongside growing operational coordination with Russia.[3] Russia has provided intelligence to Iran while conducting more aggressive flights against US forces in Syria since mid-March.[4] Iran, Russia, and the Syrian regime also are coordinating an information operation that falsely claimed the deployments were to protect against a US-SDF attack into regime-controlled territory.[5] US forces are in Syria under Combined Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve, which aims to militarily defeat ISIS through partnerships with the SDF and International Coalition partners.[6]

There was a video months ago in Spain when NATO troops were training Ukrainians. And video showed some Spanish troops cried when those Ukrainian troops left.

Now, some said (while holding puppies and flowers), that it was just a natural response knowing how it’s very risky going off into battle and with the uncertainty etc.

Except it wasn’t that.

The Spainish KNEW the chances were pretty much very low of those Ukrainian troops coming back alive.

That video then, told me immediately what was coming up.

And this was around when pro western media was pushing BS hit pieces focusing on how Russia was resorted to using shovels.

All of this while Bakhmut was being fully engulfed/being taken.

There’s no way Russia would have the south exposed poorly and having Mariupol for example being open for the taking.

That’s what frustrating about the situation seeing it from the pro west media. You have people being spoon fed who aren’t exactly educated on the situation. Much less able to point where Ukraine is, much less Mariupol.

Hailing that Bakhmut for example was some “pyrrhic” victory. Not knowing the actual details geographically wise and how Bakhmut and Soledar has a vast deep underground salt mining system. And is a spring board and set piece going forward.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Defending their nation

From Ukraine... hows that work?

Seriously... jesus I dont even like all the weapons and money we are laundering... err moving through ukraine.

But to try and claim anything other than a bad decision by putin who is trying to get the old school choke points while they still have bodies to throw at it.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Defending their nation

From Ukraine... hows that work?

Seriously... jesus I dont even like all the weapons and money we are laundering... err moving through ukraine.

But to try and claim anything other than a bad decision by putin who is trying to get the old school choke points while they still have bodies to throw at it.

Was it a decision only by Putin? In fact, if Putin didn’t act the Russian people would kick him out long ago.

Whether people like it or not, the south and eastern side has millions of ethnic Russians there for centuries. With cemeteries etc.

Those millions of ethnic Russians were left there while the current Ukraine regime had “AZOV” running wild as a National guard.

All while NATO had its hands in the cookie jar, while encroaching further on Russias border in the south.

Something was going to happen with or without Putin in charge. If anything, it would probably be MUCH worse if Russia didn’t have a long career experienced politician there right now.

Many believe Putin is a chess player and “reserved”.

a reply to: Imhere

Show me the proof that PRIOR to the original "soldiers on leave" flooded into Ukraine that genocide was occurring please.

The American military hasn't faced an equal opponent since WWII. Were accustomed to fighting insurgents and goat farmers, not an organized military with an Airforce, a clear chain of command, and defined goals.

You are a fool if you still think there is anything NATO can do to equip Ukraine to repel Russia. The Zelenskyy cheerleaders need to accept defeat and start advocating for peace rather than advocating for another 100k Ukranian soldiers to needlessly die for American hegemony...

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: Imhere

Show me the proof that PRIOR to the original "soldiers on leave" flooded into Ukraine that genocide was occurring please.

Look on Ukrainian Reddit.

Pro Zelensky supporters acknowledge the situation past decade in the east and south.

Response? Mind your business in our border.

They acknowledge “AZOV” as a National guard.

Which to me is glaring because U.S banned Azov in 2015 and then unbanned it. To have that group run around there like that and get supported much less because it’s “against Russia” doesn’t help the situation at all.

Completely not caring how that obviously clashes with the people in the east and south.

Knowing full well they could have stopped Russia going there in the first place and or give them any excuses or reason(s) to be where we are now.

But the current Ukrainian regime thought they had the “west” in their pocket and thought huh f what anyone else thinks.

Well, Ukraine is now on course having their working age male population being wiped out.

Because the more this goes on, the more it’s worse for Ukraine than it is for Russia.

a reply to: Irishhaf
Don't think anyone said anything about genocide. But there is plenty of
proof Ukraine has become hostile towards certain groups of it's population.

GENEVA/KYIV (14 July 2016) – A new UN report released Thursday describes the widespread killings that have taken place in Ukraine since January 2014 and highlights the very limited accountability that has taken place.

Are you okay with this?

a reply to: Irishhaf
Picture this: We get these idiots to kill off all their men and then cheap Ukrainian hookers will be earning it big as housekeepers, nannies, and massage therapists here in North America and Europe. They will be so cheap, I can complain about one being snippy while I was trying to choke her and they will just disappear her and get a replacement on the double.

I look forward to my first cheap abused trafficked Ukrainian hooker. Thank you international gangsters for making it possible.

a reply to: JAY1980

Indiscriminate killings of course not, its insulting that you would even suggest that.

But the only information shown so far seems to be about the time those russian soldiers went to ukraine while on "leave".

Which even supports my point, I am talking prior to the "spontaneous" events that lead to the start of the conflict between the two countries.

originally posted by: putnam6
LOL by the tone of the responses sounds like nobody gives AF, if we send billions to Ukraine and they still lose. Sounds like people are just glad to be pissing off Putin, no matter the financial cost and how many it kills doing so. What AFing waste

Well according to a certain flabby old war pig (Lindsey Graham), the US will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian! The neocons don't see it as a waste, they really don't give af because they are sick. In fact the Ukraine and its people were always going to be expendable in their efforts to weaken Russia.

Iran, Russia, and the Syrian regime are coordinating a coercive campaign to expel the United States from Syria.

That's good, about time. The US were never invited into Syria to begin with (unlike Russia) and as usual, are there illegally. The attempted regime change failed so they're only there to steal Syria's oil now. Get them out of the place, they have never had any right to be there.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

Defending their nation from NATOfication and EU bullsh*t cock p*ss encroachment and colonisation into the 'free world'

With troop training...

When one attacks...defense is a hard word to prove. Let me ask you a real question, do you think Russian soil would ever be invaded by EU? EVER? The only real threat of an actual invasion is from China.