Roswell Crashed Flying Saucer Sham Story That's Still Being Sold

Foil was around in 1921, so most people in America would have known what foil was well before the crash. Wooden beens are just that, wooded beams. How the hell cam the military thinking scattered foil snd wood was a flying disc? It makes no sense at all!

a reply to: JumpTheGun76

The witnesses knew what they saw, it was a coveup.
They took the evidence and got it to a secured location and had everyone interviewed and put the fear of God in them if they ever spoke out.
It is so obvious, do you really think it odd that after the initial reports went out the government, military didn't want any talk of a crashed and recovered alien space craft with bodies so they sent out a team to shut it down. They would do the same today, 80 years later.
Do you trust the government and military to be honest if they retrieved alien technology and crafts?
Do you think in the 13.7 billion years that Earth is the most sophisticated and technologically advanced intelligent life in the universe?
Earth seems more like the "Ukraine" of the universe. We are lied to everyday about everything that has to do with control and exploitation. That makes more sense to me.

originally posted by: JumpTheGun76
a reply to: mirageman

Foil was around in 1921, so most people in America would have known what foil was well before the crash. Wooden beens are just that, wooded beams. How the hell cam the military thinking scattered foil snd wood was a flying disc? It makes no sense at all!

In this day and age, with more people with high clearance saying that governments have retrieved crashed ufos, then of course roswell could have been a cover up.

I am just not buying thst military mistook foild and wood for a disc ufo.

It's becoming more and more obvious thst governments know more about ufos thsn what they are saying. No matter what people say, the evidence has pointed to that fact for years.

I think this could be an official slow disclosure we are seeing.

The small wooden beams were coated in an Elmers glue type of coating to strengthen and protect them at high altitudes.


The tin foil had a strong paper backing to make them stronger for higher flights and not just bare foil which could be torn.

These targets were new and never used or seen in New Mexico at the time. They were unusual.


Compared to what both men had found before it would have been strange enough to question, as in Brazels newspaper comments. Strange enough to have Friedman just spin it enough to be an alien spacecraft. Made of foil, small sticks, and rubber strips. Again, an astronomical coincidence that the alien spacecraft from billions of miles away was made of the same thing.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

I don't believe anything Grusch says.

If there was alien craft in US possesion, that fact would be very much classified. Whistleblowers don't get to reveal anything classified. Whistleblowers may report government malfeasance . That's it.

There is no penalty for baldfaced lying and telling wild stories. He would only be in trouble if he were telling the truth and he would be in big trouble.

Roswell is not a sham. It was a lot different than the lies and accumulative myth currently associated with it, but it was a real incident. Those that think it was a pure myth are really the ones that do not know what they are talking about.

The government has never given out any factual information on it and indeed spent huge sums of money along with the execution of extremely dubious activities over all of these years, to keep it secret.

Perhaps, some day, the public will know the truth about it, but that day is still fairly far away, if indeed, it ever comes.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Are you bring series here? It would have still looked like wood. The foil would have still looked like foil! Because foil would have been used in other projects associated with the military!

And why did they say disc? If what you are saying is true, it would have been scattered debre of foil and wood! How would that be mistaken for a crashed disc shaped object? It makes no sense at all, and obviously there is still a cover up here!

OK, before they came out and said it was project M, did any of the skeptics try and debunk or question the weather balloon explanation? Nope!

So, they will not question this either! In 5 years time, they could come out and say that in fact, the crash was a secret aircraft, and yet again, the same skeptics and debunkers would believe that!

Can you see the pattern here?

originally posted by: CoyoteAngels
a reply to: Lucidparadox

I don't believe anything Grusch says.

If there was alien craft in US possesion, that fact would be very much classified. Whistleblowers don't get to reveal anything classified. Whistleblowers may report government malfeasance . That's it.

There is no penalty for baldfaced lying and telling wild stories. He would only be in trouble if he were telling the truth and he would be in big trouble.

Incorrect.

In order for the classification office to restrict Grusch's testimony on certain specific tidbits of information, the classification needs to get information from the respective office and confirm what is classified.

This is done line by line for what he is submitting to want to say.

Therefore, if they deem alien bodies and alien craft being classified, its essentially an open admission. They don't want the people in the classification office knowing either.

So what do they do?

They classify program names and project/mission specifics. So it looks exactly like what you are trying to convey.

originally posted by: CoyoteAngels
a reply to: Lucidparadox

I don't believe anything Grusch says.

If there was alien craft in US possesion, that fact would be very much classified. Whistleblowers don't get to reveal anything classified. Whistleblowers may report government malfeasance . That's it.

There is no penalty for baldfaced lying and telling wild stories. He would only be in trouble if he were telling the truth and he would be in big trouble.

Well, that is not true!

a reply to: JumpTheGun76

...It would have still looked like wood. The foil would have still looked like foil! Because foil would have been used in other projects associated with the military!

It seems Marcel may have thought this was something unusual and otherworldly but Cavitt who was with him thought it was parts from a balloon and Irving Newton at Fort Worth recognised it as such too.

This of course doesn't explain why Blanchard ordered Walter Haut to put out a press release without giving specific details of what had been discovered.

OK, before they came out and said it was project M, did any of the skeptics try and debunk or question the weather balloon explanation? Nope!

There was no such thing as a UFO sceptic in July 1947. Kenneth Arnold's main concern was that these "Flying Saucers" were from a foreign power (the Soviets). The Roswell event occurred around two weeks later. It is possible that Roswell AAF wanted to be the first to declare the capture of a "saucer" or "disc" before investigations showed it to actually be property of the US Army.

Roswell was a none story for 30 years. When Marcel blabbed to Friedman and others he never mentioned retrieval of dead bodies either. Since then, many witnesses have been discredited for lying. Marcel even inflated his own credentials originally to researchers.

But I still come back to the General Twining memo which I posted earlier in the thread.

If something extra-terrestrial crash-landed in or near Roswell in June/July 1947 then why two months later would Twining refer to


"The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects"


There was no FOIA back then and this was an internal memo. How do you explain it away without performing mental gymnastics?

It seems Marcel may have thought this was something unusual and otherworldly but Cavitt who was with him thought it was parts from a balloon and Irving Newton at Fort Worth recognised it as such too.

This of course doesn't explain why Blanchard ordered Walter Haut to put out a press release without giving specific details of what had been discovered.

a reply to: mirageman

And this makes it even more confusing. Do Cavitt could clearly tell that thos was wood and foil, but the military thought it was a crashed disc. How does that even make any sense.


As for there was no such thing as a UFO sceptic in July 1947, of course there was, it was just not the movement we see today. Also, skeptics believed the weather balloon explanation tight up until thd military said it was project M, which jwas in the 90s, but could be wrong.

I am not saying it was an alien craft that crashed in roswell, but it's clear that there is still some sort of cover up going on here!

The fact the military thought it was a crashed ufo disc tells us that! Scattered foil and wood beens would not have looked anything like a crashed disc.

a reply to: JumpTheGun76

And this makes it even more confusing. Do Cavitt could clearly tell that thos was wood and foil, but the military thought it was a crashed disc. How does that even make any sense...

Who actually thought it was a crashed disc though, besides Marcel? Marcel was assigned as the officer in charge to retrieve the wreckage and took it home overnight before bringing it into Roswell. It was then rapidly sent to Fort Worth. Which is where it was identified as a "weather balloon".

Is it really a stretch that Marcel misidentified the wreckage? Those in charge at the base got overexcited and issued a press release. But once Marcel brought it all back to Roswell AAF he was ordered to rapidly take to Fort Worth for further investigation?

There was also an 8th July FBI memo describing the contents : vault.fbi.gov...



It describes the material found as:

.
..THE DISC IS HEXAGONAL IN SHAPE AND WAS SUSPENDED FROM A BALLOON BY A CABLE, WHICH BALLOON WAS APPROXIMATELY TWENTY FEET IN DIAMETER. MAJOR CURTAN FURTHER ADVISED THAT THE OBJECT FOUND RESEMBLES A HIGH ALTITUDE WEATHER BALLOON WITH A RADAR...

And then of course there's the Twining Memo clearly stating there was a "...a lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects".

I think I've mentioned it three times in the thread but as yet no one, including yourself, has addressed it.

a reply to: Lucidparadox

Has he testified under oath?

a reply to: JumpTheGun76

So explain where it's not true! Just drive by and call someone a liar?

Don't forget the entire story begins with Mac Brazel discovering the debris, picking it up and stashing it under some brush because the sheep he was tending wouldn't cross the debris and going on with his day. It was only nearly a month later that he went back and retrieved pieces of it after hearing of rewards being offered by newspapers for pieces of a flying saucer made popular by Kenneth Arnold. Brazel was trying to sell this wreckage now as a flying saucer. Before these rewards, the material apparently didn't have much meaning. Roswell Army Air Field was called and told that a flying saucer may have been found. This is where the story begins. The debris field of shiny material was strange enough to get Marcel wondering and he went back. By his own admission, there was nothing foreign or exotic about the debris except the amount. The buzz around the country was retrieval of a flying saucer or disc which was a new thing. You need to put your mind in 1947 Roswell, not of todays mindset. This was at the end of WWII when paranoia would have been high. The atomic bomb had just been developed and used and flying disc could have meant a new spying craft from another country as well.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

.... Brazel was trying to sell this wreckage now as a flying saucer. Before these rewards, the material apparently didn't have much meaning. Roswell Army Air Field was called and told that a flying saucer may have been found. This is where the story begins.....

True that.Many newspapers carried a United Press Bulletin about the rewards on offer.

Geez, that's BRAZEL wondering if he found debris from a flying saucer/disc, not Marcel. BRAZEL searching for propellers or some sort of engine but saying he never found anything exotic or not from Earth.
As I said, Brazel would have certainly mentioned any odd materials and never found any even after making point to search. Every piece he mentions is something made on Earth.

originally posted by: charlyv
Roswell is not a sham. It was a lot different than the lies and accumulative myth currently associated with it, but it was a real incident. Those that think it was a pure myth are really the ones that do not know what they are talking about.

The government has never given out any factual information on it and indeed spent huge sums of money along with the execution of extremely dubious activities over all of these years, to keep it secret.

Perhaps, some day, the public will know the truth about it, but that day is still fairly far away, if indeed, it ever comes.

It's not a sham in the sense of something came down and crashed on the Foster ranch, that did in fact happen. It's been a sham story with a UFOologist rehashing the 30 year old case and saying it was an alien spacecraft, completely to his benefit. The incident had been resolved in 1947. But Stanton Friedman being that UFOologist and travelling the country lecturing on the subject wanted people to believe it was an alien spacecraft of course, 30 years later. The Army Air Force flew the debris to the closest weather facility in Fort Worth, Texas at the time to get a positive identification of what it was because in Roswell they couldn't positively identify it 100% because of the debris was different than typical weather balloons that had crashed in the area of the day. Brazel says what crashed didn't resemble anything like he had found previous, two weather balloons, which it wouldn't have. Mogul needed stronger made materials like the Elmer's Glue coated bamboo sticks and the foil that needed a strong paper or material backing to sustain the higher flights for longer periods. The foil used previous would have been plain foil not in any danger of ripping for the lower heights of weather data gathering needed. Mogul was experimenting and trying for flights at 100,000 feet at times. Normal balloons would pop from the sunlight exposure at 30,000 feet sometimes and the typical rubber weather balloons couldn't handle that height. That's why different balloon materials had to be experimented with. Mogul needed flights to be at 30,000 or 40,000 feet continuously without a fear of the balloons popping or other materials like radar targets breaking apart.

Wow!

One thing Roswell is, without a doubt, a perennial dispute, even when and if we ever find out the truth about Ufos.

Discovery Channel just repeated their 6-hour Roswell episodes ( another ex-CIA agent investigating the case) where the relatives of some of the witnesses had stories of dead aliens and other ufo/alien lore, but no science backed up the spaceship dead alien story, just old tales from a few relatives.

It’s amazing almost 80 years later, folks are still galivanting around the Roswell supposed scene of the incident with Geiger counters, metal and radiation detectors, and all kinds of little machines looking for “proof.”
They found no “ proof”

www.youtube.com...

Here was their proof: an elderly relative of one of the Roswell early witnesses, so the third-hand story goes, tells that her grandfather or granduncle relates army goons threatened to kill the whole family( kids too) if he spilled the beans on what he saw.

Apparently, the threat wasn’t carried out since, if it were, she wouldn’t be around to tell.

BTW, if you watch the above short video, it talks about a spooky notebook Marcel left for posterity early in the doc. Then they leave it for the experts to look at, only coming back to it later.

Lo and behold, the experts reveal Marcel didn’t even write it!

Sorry, no secrets were revealed.

originally posted by: fringeofthefringe
They took the evidence and got it to a secured location and had everyone interviewed and put the fear of God in them if they ever spoke out.

You know how we can prove that claim is BS? Because Mac Brazel had no fear when he continued to speak out, and claim the government story of a weather balloon was a lie, because he had seen weather balloons before and what he found was no weather balloon. If your claim was true, which it's not, he would have really had some fear of telling the truth and would not be calling the government liars and that they were hiding the truth.

As we learned in 1994, of course he turned out to be correct, the experimental mogul-balloon train was not like the ordinary weather balloons he had seen before, and it was a government cover-up to confuse one type of balloon for another type of balloon as the cover-up story because they didn't want people knowing what kind of balloons they were really using or what their purpose was.

originally posted by: JumpTheGun76
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Are you bring series here? It would have still looked like wood. The foil would have still looked like foil! Because foil would have been used in other projects associated with the military!

And why did they say disc? If what you are saying is true, it would have been scattered debre of foil and wood!

Paper-backed foil, wood coated with glue, and don't forget rubbery sun-degraded remains of the balloon.

How would that be mistaken for a crashed disc shaped object?

It wasn't. It sat there for a long time as useless junk until Brazel heard about a reward for a "disc". Then he decided maybe he could collect a reward for the useless junk, but only if he called it a "disc" so that's what he called it, not because it looked like a disc, but because he wanted to collect the rather substantial reward.

It makes no sense at all, and obviously there is still a cover up here!

If you don't think Brazel was highly motivated to collect a sizeable reward, you're really missing something big here. It makes perfect sense he would call something that didn't look like a disc a disc if that meant he could get big money for the junk he didn't want.

OK, before they came out and said it was project M, did any of the skeptics try and debunk or question the weather balloon explanation? Nope!

I have no doubt Charles Moore could have told you about project mogul if he was allowed to do so.

Can you see the pattern here?

The pattern I see is you ignoring the obvious reason why Brazel called it a "disc" so you can spin your own fantasy narrative other than the simple reason he had to call it that to collect the reward offered.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
Don't forget the entire story begins with Mac Brazel discovering the debris, picking it up and stashing it under some brush because the sheep he was tending wouldn't cross the debris and going on with his day. It was only nearly a month later that he went back and retrieved pieces of it after hearing of rewards being offered by newspapers for pieces of a flying saucer made popular by Kenneth Arnold. Brazel was trying to sell this wreckage now as a flying saucer. Before these rewards, the material apparently didn't have much meaning.

People keep asking why they called it a disc if it wasn't a disc, and that's the obvious answer that some people who don't want to let go of Roswell can't seem to accept, Brazel was trying to collect a reward and had to call it a disc to do that. So others just followed suit including the FBI memo which doesn't describe the object as disc-like (hexagonal object attached to balloon) even though that memo too calls that contraption a disc.