Roswell Crashed Flying Saucer Sham Story That's Still Being Sold

Coming up on the anniversary of the Roswell incident and wanting to continue to stress and point out the findings by the U. S. Air Force in The Roswell Report that never was covered. This case, among many others, needs to be put to rest. There was no crash of an alien spacecraft and there were no alien bodies. This has become UFO folklore and seen as the first serious case and evidence(of which there is ZERO) of a crash of an alien spacecraft to many. Some even claim that fiber optics began with the crash when evidence shows fiber optics began back in the mid 1850s as an example of showing light following a path of water, later with light traveling through glass rods. THAT'S how the idea of fiber optics began.
The Roswell case was explained in 1947 and publicly accepted. Only when UFO enthusiast and lecturer Stanton Friedman got wind of the subject during one of his UFO lectures in the late 70s did Friedman rekindle the story. I'm sure thinking at the time he hit pay dirt relying solely on 30 year old memories and an overzealous newspaper reporter headline and basically made his career out of this tale. Always using his title of nuclear scientist to help bolster the tale also. A scientist relying on hearsay rather than scientific facts and analysis. That should have lost some of his credibility. He posted in this forum years ago and I asked him questions to which went ignored.
As Mogul Flight Engineer Charles Moore said in his affidavit- "I can think of no other explanation for Roswell than one of our early June service flight balloons."

Page 208 The Roswell Report

My long thread for any new members:
Roswell Thread

I recently found the toy manufacturer of the radar targets/reflectors that crashed on the Foster ranch in 1947.
Alox toy company out of St. Louis Missouri made kites, marbles, and several children games. They were contracted by the Army Signal Corps in the 40s to build kite-like radar targets after WWII. This shows an outside connection to Mogul for those people accusing the Air Force of fabricating and covering up a UFO story using The Roswell Report. They would have had to fake photographs, correspondence, blueprint drawings, force interview answers, etc. also. I just happened on the site one day searching for something else, the company is not mentioned in the Air Force's book but was used by them in the 1940s.
Companies like Goodyear, General Mills, Dewey Almy Co., Kaysam, etc. created the balloons using various materials for Moores experiment to find balloons that would stand up to the heights and times aloft required for Mogul also.
Army contract mentioned starting in the 7th paragraph above the radar target photograph:
John Frier Alox Kites

Targets were made of reflective aluminum foil paper, heavy paper backing, and small bamboo type of sticks for the frame. Similar to box kites. Reflective panels were needed to bounce a signal back to the Alamogordo V-2 ground radar receiver dish so the balloon flights could be tracked.
An Alox employee showing the radar target created for the military in the 40s:

Model ML307C/AP draft drawing blueprint by the military of the targets made by Alox:

Page 304 The Roswell Report

A photo from the kite museum in Washington state showing Alox model ML307C/AP near the ceiling:


Mac Brazel describes on July 8, 1947 in The Roswell Daily Record, the debris he found less than a month after the crash. UFO author$ and UFO lecturer Stanton Friedman wanted you to take the words of formed memories 30 years later over Brazels publicly recorded fresh recall less than a month later in 1947. You don't hear much focus on Brazels newspaper description by the actual discoverer of the debris because it undoubtedly describes radar targets and balloon(s). UFO believers and $ellers of this case don't want that, so it's excused away as nonsensical Army coercion. He also never mentions in the article any exotic properties having handled the debris. Here's Brazel's newspaper article:


Focus on the description of what Brazel found compared to the parts of the model ML307C/AP Alox made radar target. Brazels words (highlighted in yellow and underlined in blue) compared to a closeup view of the legend/notes on the military blueprint draft drawing pointing out in red arrows the same materials as what Brazel describes:



The same parts. It's not convincing enough to be a crashed alien spacecraft with exotic materials. Unless those aliens worked for the Alox toy company in the 1940's.

Leftover Chinese cellophane tape with characters printed on it was used to strengthen the connection of the foil/paper to the bamboo style sticks. That likely accounted for the strange looking characters and flowers described by both Brazel and Marcel.
Charles Moore commented in his statement:
"I have specific recollection of reinforcing tape being applied to the seams of the reflectors that had some symbols such as arcs, flowers, circles and diamonds."

Page 206 The Roswell Report

The rational and grounded explanation is laid out in my original thread- A Mogul Experimental/Test or Service flight, which Charles Moore was launching also in June/July 1947 to test balloon materials and radar tracking with targets launching only 60 miles away is what logically crashed on the Foster ranch that day. Not the fantasy of an alien spacecraft we've been sold. It's more exciting, but not the real world answer. I don't know why Mogul flight #4 was pressed at the time as the answer which had reasonable questions posed. With research, the actual answer is in The Roswell Report. Charles Moore's affidavit quote was completely ignored.

People choose what they want to believe, and right now they're waiting for the official government version to tell them what their beliefs should be.

The same government that never lies to us about anything. I can't wait......

a reply to: nugget1


Mentally challenged ppl who believe lazar,knapp,corbell,boyd bushman,greer,lear,sneider deserve every pile of dung the gov feeds them

As Mogul Flight Engineer Charles Moore said in his affidavit- "I can think of no other explanation for Roswell than one of our early June service flight balloons."

Project Mogul has never made sense to me as an explanation.

You are telling me, that a top secret project about balloons with microphones-crash was mistaken for something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, and military intelligence then WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY to create a cover story that is WAY CLOSER to the thing they are trying to hide?


Nope, not buying it.

To me it is way more likely that the story about it being a Project Mogul-crash is itself a cover story.

As per the quote, Charles Moore can think of no better explanation for Roswell than a Mogul balloon. It makes sense then, that it would be the best likely candidate for a cover story, too.



What doesn't makes sense is trying to hide having a blue butterfly, by yelling l "my butterfly is purple!" when everybody thinks all you have is a parrot.

a reply to: DupontDeux

A crash of Mogul flight #4 for example would have left a debris field consisting of microphone equipment and other electronic debris along with "return to:" reward tags included that all full Mogul arrays carried that wasn't left behind at the Roswell site. A simple balloon flight that Charles Moore was releasing along with the full Mogul flights match the materials that crashed. Moore was still experimenting with the number of radar targets to receive a good enough tracking signal on the V-2 rocket radar receiver at Alamogordo and the type of balloon materials that could sustain the heights and time aloft that Mogul flights required.

The sham of the Roswell report (coverup) is still being digested as a legitimate report. There fixed it for you

I just watched this British Ex Military guy convincingly say He knows for a fact that Britain does not have any Alien Tech He was in-charge of investigating reports He went on to say that he has no idea if America does So I would say it's all a crock .

Nick Pope was the guy

originally posted by: KABOURIS72
a reply to: nugget1


Mentally challenged ppl who believe lazar,knapp,corbell,boyd bushman,greer,lear,sneider deserve every pile of dung the gov feeds them

I feel the same about the vaccines

Roswell is the foundation on which most ufology is built upon. At least in the Anglo world. Die hard believers will never let it go and will never be convinced.

When I was a much younger, I remember watching the Unsolved Mysteries show [below in full].



I just accepted it all as true. Fact checking it would have been difficult even if I'd had the inclination. But once the internet expanded and documents, news cutting and TV clips were put online that became a lot easier.

Once I started digging though, I found, the clues to what really happened don't come from talking heads with vested interests in the 1980s, 1990s and beyond but from 1947.

Things like the contemporaneous news reports describing the debris Brazel found from the so called 'object' as rubber, sticks and paper.


Roswell Daily Record, July 9, 1947

Or like "remnants of a kite and balloon".




Even ""In Search Of..." (link)" the 80s TV show on the case makes reference to an FBI document describing the debris as from an "experimental kite".

Not materials you would associate with spaceships. But very similar to Mogul balloon trains.

The other piece of evidence that nothing extra-terrestrial was found near Roswell is Twining's "Flying Discs" Sept 23rd 1947 memo.

This was some two months after the events at Roswell. Twining was also in New Mexico on July 7th leaving on July 11th 1947. Putting him close to the action at the exact time the news releases were made.

Yet he explicitly states that

Due consideration must be given the following:-..The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects

If the debris taken to Wright Field was from a genuine ET spacecraft, then why would Twining state in his memo there was a lack of physical evidence?

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

BTW Ecto have you read Richard Weavers book?



Backstory: Roswell: Exclusive Untold Disclosures About the 1994 Air Force Roswell Report Told By The Man Who Led The Inquiry

Weaver was the guy who conducted the original Air Force Roswell Report. He was also, coincidentally, Richard Doty's boss for a short time when Doty was assigned to Germany.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Demons

True story

a reply to: DupontDeux

originally posted by: DupontDeux

As Mogul Flight Engineer Charles Moore said in his affidavit- "I can think of no other explanation for Roswell than one of our early June service flight balloons."

Project Mogul has never made sense to me as an explanation.

The military wasn't trying to hide anything. They were telling the truth and explaining that Project Mogul existed in June/July of 1947 in Alamogordo NM and showing proof of that. What are the chances that a military project existed only 60 miles away on the exact date as the Roswell crash and had previous balloon flights being carried and crashing outside of Roswell showing northerly winds were blowing flights that direction? This is not something made up out of the blue. Mogul existed as a covert program to listen for nuclear detonations by other countries after our development of the atomic bomb. We were afraid of other countries creating nuclear weapons and attacking U.S. cities after our bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's completely logical for the timing of the military creating this program. In order to believe this was an alien spacecraft you have to believe the military created the timing, made up everything from period correct photos, all correspondence, technical bulletins, military personnel that worked on Mogul, and many other incidentals.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

BTW Ecto have you read Richard Weavers book?

No, I haven't read that book.

I remember seeing it on Unsolved Mysteries originally as well. At the time, I went with the story too until much later and reading things for myself. Not for the purpose of trying to prove them wrong, just casually and having a naturally skeptical mind.

I seem to remember a govt explanation that used small crash test dummies.
Is that no longer popular to reference that explanation?

a reply to: butcherguy

Yeh that's probably because few people actually read the report.

In fact it didn't appear in the initial "Roswell Report Fact or Fiction in the New Mexico Desert". It was addressed in the follow up.

Despite the evidence for alien bodies being recovered being purely anecdotal and rather weak. [Jesse Marcel never mentioned bodies despite being the base intelligence officer as an example]. It was felt it needed to be addressed. Probably a mistake, as diehard believers just keep performing mental gymnastics to keep their beliefs alive.

But this is how the Roswell Report : Case Closed begain to explain it...

...Subsequent to the 1994 report, Air Force researchers discovered information that provided a rational explanation for the alleged observations of alien bodies associated with the "Roswell Incident." Pursuant to the discovery, research efforts compared documented Air Force activities to the incredible claims of "flying saucers," "aliens" and seemingly unusual Air Force involvement.

This in-depth examination revealed that these accounts, in most instances, were of actual Air Force activities but were seriously flawed in several major areas, most notably: the Air Force operations that inspired reports of "bodies" (in addition to being earthly in origin) did not occur in 1947. It appears that UFO proponents have failed to establish the accurate dates for these "alien" observations (in some instances by more than a decade) and then erroneously linked them to the actual Project Mogul debris recovery...

All the "believers" jumped on it, claiming that these "air force dummies" weren't even used until the 1950s. But they missed the point. Which was after 40 or 50 years, people's memories were confusing different events in different years.

The biggest proponent for finding dead bodies was Glenn Dennis. A mortician who was later discredited for basically telling a a pack of lies. But as a co-founder of the Roswell UFO Museum was probably good for business for all the years it took to research and expose his story as a hoax.

I will say again, the official explanation stinks to high heaven. Now officialdom and posters on ATS have never satisfactorily answered these points.
1. Project Mogul was a top secret operation. BUT, the hardware ie. the balloon and listening devices was not. It was the nature of the operation, to try to listen for atomic testing, that was top secret.
2. Roswell Army Airbase was the only base at that time that deployed nuclear weapons and the authorities and debunkers are trying to say, or not say, that they were releasing large balloon arrays without informing the base that they might stray into their airspace which could endanger nuclear bombers and their crew.
3. Also the balloon arrays would have shown up on the Airbases radar, so what would have happened at the base with an unknown craft in the air in their airspace.
4. The biggest one, Jesse Marcel was the bases intelligence officer (they don't make people intelligence officers because they're stupid) he would have known what a balloon and it's array were. Apart from the official line at the time Marcel would have followed orders to cover the false story and later in life he came out and told the truth.

Has this memo been scrutinized for authenticity?

Shown below is a retyped version, of an purported original.

It’s a ……Memo To George Marshall From FDR, 27 February 1942 about Celestial Devices (plural) and Atomic secrets.


👽

originally posted by: crayzeed
4. The biggest one, Jesse Marcel was the bases intelligence officer (they don't make people intelligence officers because they're stupid) he would have known what a balloon and it's array were. Apart from the official line at the time Marcel would have followed orders to cover the false story and later in life he came out and told the truth.

So we're supposed to believe that Marcel was so stupid that he thought a UFO had crashed and wasn't able to see it was a balloon. If that's the case then we were very, very fortunate that those idiots back then didn't blow us all to kingdom come. Or was the official story the real one? Or was it the first one? And if it was a top secret device why oh why would they bring truckloads of enlisted to scour the desert for scraps and not use someone with a little more security clearance to pick up the pieces?

Every bit of information about the subject is suspect at this point.

a reply to: crayzeed

What's even more amazing is the people that continue to believe this was an alien spacecraft crash. Argue for it. Another entire species of intelligent being from billions or trillions of miles away with 70+ more years of opportunities since for physical evidence to present itself on Earth and it never has. Even by association physical evidence, NOT words, of another alien or alien spacecraft could leave the possibility of this being from elsewhere. But nope, can't be a reality based answer still fantasy is more likely and logical.

I don't want to rehash my old thread, but I've already shown the Mogul program existed and started in New York but was moved to Alamogordo NM 60+/- miles from the Roswell crash site in June 1947. How the winds were carrying balloon flights north toward Roswell with one crashing 17 miles away. How the materials gathered by Brazel: tinfoil, small sticks, tough paper, eyelets, scotch tape, rubber strips were exactly the materials of the ML307C/AP radar target and balloons that were launching 60 miles away in the exact time period of this crash. Just an astronomical coincidence I guess?

a reply to: Ectoplasm8
When your “more logical” debunking story contains toy makers building sensitive military equipment, random ‘leftover’ Chinese tape, senior military officers who can’t recognize Chinese writing, the obligatory overzealous reporter, standard dig at Stanton Friedman …… the story may be more convoluted than the UFO version.

Oh , noes , you had to do this on World UFO Day.
"I used to want to believe" - me .

I don't think you understand. There's just too much evidence that it's all been a lie. The conspiracy is not to hide the existence of extraterrestrials. It's to make people believe in it so completely that they question nothing.

Fox Mulder - X Files - Patient X

Everything flying is unidentified .
Until it is identified .