Weigh-in on aliens

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: olaru12

Ignorance, madness or enlightenment....your choice. Buy the ticket, take the ride.

What choice... First you'll be confronted that you've been ignorant all along, then you'll be faced with a conflicting reality bringing you to the brinks of madness and if you DGAF and decide to be the madest dog in town and pull trough, you'll get somewhere... but I honestly wouldn't call it enlightenment, it seems to be just another door...

I got you....Better to be thru at least one door than wallowing in the ignorant madness. Granted there are causalities.
I don't claim enlightenment just awareness with a measure of confusion. Sometimes it's just about the journey and being open to the adventure of finding the others; actually you won't FIND them. They will find you however.

a reply to: olaru12

I take you read Rick Strassman "the spirit molecule", i did so too, but only after the fact.

the human 7 senses are to primitive to absorb the actual data

That seems a wrong conclusion to me. The known senses all process a specific range/frequency present in our environment. There might be other organs we aren't aware of consciously, and their signals are processed just the same but subconsciously.
Bringing that into consciousness and/or fine-tuning some organs is what happens with some substances but i don't think the one in question does that....
It's a whole other ballpark,from what i read, there is no sensory input....

yet there is an experience clear as day, factor in the endogenous system and I'm pretty sure scientifically understanding the experience is a major key to the whole mystery.

We have the machine, we have the fuel, but we constantly get lost at sea, stray ships cause alot of damage, so all ports are closed, no-flight zones everywhere...

I guess killing those that were tasked to help individuals become the captains of their own ships, wasn't the best move...

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Given the recent uptick in various MSM coverage of UFO's and potential extra-terrestrial objects being held by various governments, I thought I might take a moment to share my own views on our buddy, "ET".

Something to think about.

If it hasn't been already said- You also need to factor in the one in a billion chance that a planet will evolve a highly intelligent being. It happened once on Earth demonstrating that in natures generational DNA gives rise to basic life with no need to evolve a highly intelligent being. High intelligence comes from a fluke being that had the brain capacity allowing for growth and ability to physically put into effect any abstract thoughts or any brain "mutations" that may have arose like Asperger's into physical actions because of opposable thumbs etc.

Scientist say there are 250+/- primates. Of every one of those primates, which would have been a concentration of the perfect opportunity for high intelligence to grow if it was in natures plan, every single one went to a point of survival and that's it. Even chimpanzees share 98% of our DNA and are a species 8 million years old and never developed into highly intelligent beings.

People will say you don't know how life would evolve on another planet, which is true. But what environmental or other factors would force a lifeform to be HIGHLY intelligent? I can understand early man becoming bipedal through environmental reasons or animals evolving certain physical characteristics because of their environment, But high intelligence is an extremely rare occurrence. I believe basic life will be out there, not highly intelligent life.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

LOL

Higly intelligent is very much a question of how you define intelligence.

An alien would argue, that defining intelligence by their own species standards is the epitome of low intelligence.

Total lack of awareness of how differently intelligence can manifest itself, an alien might think...

a reply to: Terpene

The process of intelligence like I said, starting with basic survival intelligence of gathering food, the ability to process the food into energy, being able to defend itself from predators, protect its young, reproduction, method of communication between species, motion. Basic intelligence. That would be the lowest form of intelligence a successful being would have. High intelligence like humans having the same basic intelligence plus being self aware, complex commutative ability, elaborate problems solving skills, abstract thoughts into actions. All of which no other lifeform has. Superior intelligence of having high intelligence plus being able to figure out how you can successfully travel the universe, etc. Any being that has figured out and travelling by spacecraft, like so many claim, is smarter than humans. You think high human level of intelligence is common on Earth? Not rare? "Lol".

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Yeah... I got your line of reasoning in the first place, it works if you take human intelligence as standards, an alien might still disagree.

I guess even fungus would, if we only understood his language. Is he too dumb to comunicate, is actually everyone on this planet is too dumb to comunicate with us but us?

You know when considering our place in the universe it might be prudent to not turn out to be that species who proclaims to be the only ones with high intelligence, because the other languages aren't understandable to them.
In my experience, no one will waste a second on that guy, who thinks himself smarter than everyone...

You wanna know about aliens ???

Research Chris bledsoe Sr

He has a son named Ryan bledsoe

He has a YouTube channel called

Bledsoe said so

Ryan interviewed his dad and found his hypothesis transcript..

Remember if it's on tv .. it's propaganda and fake

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

They aren't aliens. Well some of them might be, yet they are around us all the time. You just can't see them. They are manipulating your thoughts, they enter you, they can control you. They are you. Whatever you see is what they want you to see. They can shapeshift into anything. Being honest and realistic about it it I wouldn't trust anything you see with your eyes. They can sift the backdrop into that vision. Very little is real as we understood it when young. The whole thing is an act or show. We live in this game. One can consider life as a game, yet the game is not controlled by our own will as human beings, these things interact constantly and create situations where certain end games roll out. They control so much down here it's like a puppeteers show.

a reply to: Terpene

I guess even fungus would, if we only understood his language. Is he too dumb to comunicate, is actually everyone on this planet is too dumb to comunicate with us but us?

The language of chemistry is a common thread with a lot of life forms. It is how the fungus will interact with you when you start interacting with it. It is a complicated language with so many parts and interactions.

As for any potential hyper dimensional life that transcends this physical world, I don't know? The Arecibo message by Carl Sagan is a good start. I don't understand the DNA part. The transmission part is a mind blown with what happened at Chilbolton. The image is of another crop circle in the same area one year before. Getting harder to find a link to that part of the puzzle.

The Chilbolton 'Arecibo message' Formation

a reply to: Terpene

That's a good point!

a reply to: crayzeed

Correct.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Yeah... I got your line of reasoning in the first place, it works if you take human intelligence as standards, an alien might still disagree.

I guess even fungus would, if we only understood his language. Is he too dumb to comunicate, is actually everyone on this planet is too dumb to comunicate with us but us?

You know when considering our place in the universe it might be prudent to not turn out to be that species who proclaims to be the only ones with high intelligence, because the other languages aren't understandable to them.
In my experience, no one will waste a second on that guy, who thinks himself smarter than everyone...

Now you're talking another level of intelligence that would be meaningless to claimers on the forum of curious beings that abduct, implant, probe, etc. That shows a being that has an intelligence and a curiosity of things around them like humans do. We study all forms of lesser creatures on Earth from insects to all types of animals.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

The "levels" you use to categorize intelligence is funded on humans and their limited understanding of intelligence in reference to themselfs. Which is a very limited approach to intelligence. In your defense it's almost impossible to imagine any diffrent form of intelligence, we're just n8t intelligent enough for that...

It's probably your religious doctrine that makes you categorize diffrent intelligent beings as lesser,
But that won't sit well with alien...

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8


Now you're talking another level of intelligence that would be meaningless to claimers on the forum of curious beings that abduct, implant, probe, etc.

Yep, sure throws a whole wrench into a lot of discussions along those lines, doesn't it? But, that's exactly why I bring it up; it just goes to show you how selfish human beings are. Many people, even some of the scientific community, look at ET like what he/it can do for us, and/or what we can get from him/it. Oh sure, much of it is couched in the veil of 'scientific discovery', but behind this is a selfish pursuit.

That shows a being that has an intelligence and a curiosity of things around them like humans do. We study all forms of lesser creatures on Earth from insects to all types of animals.

And, what do humans do with those lesser creatures of Earth from insects and animals? We abduct them, implant stuff, probe them, and dissect them. Kind of ironic, isn't it?

I am reminded of the famous line from the movie A Few Good Men, wherein Col. Jessup replies to Jafee's demand for the truth..."YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!"

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

That is an interesting take on things, but I am not sure I agree entirely.

I do agree, however, that it is supremely arrogant for mankind to think it is the greatest example of intelligent life in the universe. I am not even certain it is the greatest example here on Earth. Look around the world right now. If mankind is truly the top of the intergalactic food chain - we should just stop right here and be done with it.

I read something once that gave me some perspective on the potential for other life in the Universe. I don't remember where I saw it or the exact numbers but it was more the concept that mattered than anything else. If you cut a 1 inch square hole in a piece of paper and hold it at arms length, everywhere you look at the sky through that opening you will be looking at 1,000 galaxies. That is a whole lot of stars, each with a potential system of planets and the potential for life.

In regards to what alien life might look like, you are correct that it could be just about anything. Not to undermine your premise, but looking just at life on Earth there are single celled organisms alongside truly massive creatures. The diversity of life on this one lone planet is astounding. Imagine the diversity of a galaxy or universe.

When discussing the search of intelligent life, I think that eliminates a large portion of "life" in any context we are familiar with. For example, that single celled organism, it may be alive but it is not what I would consider "intelligent life". For most people I think the words "intelligent life" spark wonder about what kind of alien life form might be able to build a space ship capable of interstellar/interdimensional/time travel. Try as I might, I can't imagine a pool of slime achieving that goal. Not even one with a massive IQ. But, I could be exactly and precisely wrong about that...

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Again, it's all about perspective, much as you pointed out with your paper example. Take for example the concept of scale. Rarely do any discussions about ET involve any real concept of scale. The hard-coded mindset seems to be that ET will be roughly the same size as a human, maybe a little larger, or a little smaller, but by factors less than 10x. What about factors like 10,000,000x (larger or smaller)? Rarely is there any consideration of ET in this context.

We did see one reference to it though...in the motion picture Men in Black. Remember when Frank the Pug responds to agent Jay..."You humans! When will you learn size doesn't matter? Just because something's important, doesn't mean it's not very small. " (or large, for that matter). Sure, it was in a movie, but seldom is it discussed in a scientific context.

Now, this may seem like it refers to the size of a physical thing, but actually not. In this same context we can refer to things like intelligence. Don't you think it's a little bold to consider that intelligent life will be somehow comparable to "our' intelligence (either greater or lesser)? What if this intelligence is 10,000,000x greater? We humans wouldn't even be able to wrap our heads around it.

Let's take a look at a line drawn on a sheet of paper. At one end of the line is 'stupid' (i.e. single cell slime / lacking intelligence), and just for grins let's say the other end of this line is an intelligence of the creator of the Universe (not in a theological sense, but rather a scientific one). This line now represents essentially an infinitely long line of 'intelligence', right? Now let's cut that line in half. Is this where we fit? Well, relatively, mathematically and statistically (in the absence of other evidence), the answer is...probably. In all likelihood, a little left of this mid-point, but otherwise, yes.

So, what level are we looking for ET? Half again of the right most section of the line? One quarter? One 10,000th? You see where I'm headed with this?

The same argument can be used for how we discover intelligent life, and frankly why we maybe haven't yet. This dissecting of a line as illustrated above is actually a very complex discussion, and all sorts of conclusions can be drawn from it, but the most important of these is our seeming choice of ignoring, for the most part, scale.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

The "levels" you use to categorize intelligence is funded on humans and their limited understanding of intelligence in reference to themselfs. Which is a very limited approach to intelligence. In your defense it's almost impossible to imagine any diffrent form of intelligence, we're just n8t intelligent enough for that...

It's probably your religious doctrine that makes you categorize diffrent intelligent beings as lesser,
But that won't sit well with alien...

Using the level standards of this forum, that's my standard to build on. Of all these members believing in intelligent alien visitation. At our level, I think lesser types of intelligence will be much more likely to thrive only needing a food source, being able to reproduce, protection from predators, etc. Those creatures will thrive in an environment that some rare planets will have by default. High intelligence doesn't grow and evolve from that. High intelligence came from a rare happening on a branch from hominids. Our level of intelligence doesn't spontaneously appear and any lifeform will have to start out very simple and evolve into intelligence. And like I said, of the hundreds of chances for high intelligence to grow from primates, it still only happened once on Earth, the perfect planet to grow intelligence. Showing an environmental push wasn't the reason we became highly intelligent. An environment only forces intelligence to the point of every animal. So thinking superior intelligence is a simple accomplishment and would be out there is not logical and easy in my mind. But I admit maybe possible. Anything is possible.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

It seems your stuck on a physical ET. What about a non-physical ET? It seems like you are basing intelligence on the notion there is a learning curve associated with it, that something has less intelligent has to precede something more intelligent. Yes, here on Earth this is true; some would call it evolution. How can we conclude that intelligent life doesn't just pop into existence without a evolutionary timeline?

Some of the oldest known objects in the Universe embody unexplainable phenomenon. Take for example quasars at the edges of the observable universe. If Hubble's law is correct, the angular motion of these objects is several times the speed of light which defies the laws of physics as we humans understand them. Okay, a quasar is a physical thing, but something created a quasar, and before quasars there wasn't a whole lot of physical stuff to create anything. So, "what" intelligence did this? Sure, we can say God did it, but honestly "God" is often used as an excuse to explain lots of things we humans can't explain. Again, this isn't a statement about theology, or atheism, or religioin, but one of pure intelligence.

Bottom line...we're not thinking big enough. I think @Terpene hit it on the head...'we're just not that intelligent'.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Try as I might, I can't imagine a pool of slime achieving that goal....

I'm sure you're familiar with the movie the blob, while I haven't watched it there is a great documentary about the actual creature behind it... Physarum polycephalum.

I'd wager a guess and say evolution works the same every where, I'd even say there are no intelligences that arise from evolution but all evolution arises from the same intelligence and there are many viable paths even to achieve space travel.
Think about spores, they can travel space unprotected.

The evolutionary path we're on is to my understanding quite unique, insofar that all other species on earth evolved their body to addapt better to their surroundings while we try to addapt our surroundings to sooth the body.
It's a very precarious path that probably always leads to the same hurdles. At some point the control of your surroundings is so advanced you'll be able to destroy yours and that of many others.
In comparison to the body evolution that can achieve just as much and more without controlling, but much rather collaborating with it's surroundings, and never become a threat to themselves.
It's obvious that the evolutionary path we're on is sprinkled with self-inflicted booby traps and by probability alone isn't the predominant one in the universe.

So thinking in human terms is very not intelligent...

but hey.... what can we do about that? right!

we're all in the same boat and we're going to # it up so bad, it's poetic

edit on 5-7-2023 by Terpene because: (no reason given)

Does my post only show a quote? When I edit, It shows everything... Here is the rest...


I'm sure you're familiar with the movie the blob, while I haven't watched it there is a great documentary about the actual creature behind it... Physarum polycephalum.

I'd wager a guess and say evolution works the same every where, I'd even say there are no intelligences that arise from evolution but all evolution arises from the same intelligence and there are many viable paths even to achieve space travel.
Think about spores, they can travel space unprotected.

The evolutionary path we're on is to my understanding quite unique, insofar that all other species on earth evolved their body to addapt better to their surroundings while we try to addapt our surroundings to sooth the body.
It's a very precarious path that probably always leads to the same hurdles. At some point the control of your surroundings is so advanced you'll be able to destroy yours and that of many others.
In comparison to the body evolution that can achieve just as much and more without controlling, but much rather collaborating with it's surroundings, and never become a threat to themselves.
It's obvious that the evolutionary path we're on is sprinkled with self-inflicted booby traps and by probability alone isn't the predominant one in the universe.

So thinking in human terms is very not intelligent...

but hey.... what can we do about that? right!

we're all in the same boat and we're going to # it up so bad, it's poetic