Weigh-in on aliens

Given the recent uptick in various MSM coverage of UFO's and potential extra-terrestrial objects being held by various governments, I thought I might take a moment to share my own views on our buddy, "ET".

In another more generic thread here I stated that I don't believe in aliens, but that's not entirely accurate. Rather, in that particular thread, the context was such that a more detailed explanation would have been off-topic. So, I'll clarify that here, now.

Does ET exist? Well, from my perspective, there's a couple ways to look at this question. One of them is a mathematical perspective, and the other is from an Earth-dweller perspective (this is my opinion anyway):

From a mathematical perspective (IMO), ET either exists everywhere all the time, or ET doesn't exist at all. The mathematical side of the ET discussion can either be a very long discussion, or it can be quite short, depending on how much we can allow our brain's to expand. One only needs to look skyward at night, knowing each one of those bright points of light is a star (like our Sun). And with that star could be a solar system, and in that solar system could be life. With tools like Hubble, and now Webb, we've seen how nearly infinite the Universe truly is. To think we are alone in all that is almost laughable. But, in the same breath, we have to define what 'alone' actually means, and it might not mean what we think it does. Just from a sheer statistics and probabilities perspective it's almost impossible to conclude we are alone, but again, what does alone mean? Is "life" only defined by physical things that we can reach out and touch, or does "life" include other energy forms. (Sigh)...our search for ET is so misguided.

From an Earth-dweller perspective, I think we humans are way out in left field if we're looking for ET in any sort of a form which we humans recognize. To think that ET will even remotely resemble human beings, in any way, shape, or form, is misguided to the point of almost laughable selfishness. Silly humans! If we step back and honestly/ objectively look at all the things we know about science and physics, we should almost immediately conclude that IF ET exists, it will almost certainly not look anything like we do. The notion that ET will have a body, with arms, or legs, or a head, like how we perceive other creatures on our planet is almost laughable. We seem to base our notions of extra-terrestrial life based on our understanding of living creatures here on Earth. In a truly objective search for ET, this is a grave error, and it will have us Earthlings stumbling around in the proverbial 'dark' for eons until we change this way of thinking.

This Earthling-centric view of ET manifests itself in virtually every report we see. For example, recently there have been news stories about the US Government being in possession of artifacts which are not of human origin. Almost within the same breath, these artifacts are reported to be pieces of alien spacecraft. Just think about this for a moment, and how silly it is; think about the gigantic leap of faith / assumptions which are built into a statement like this! Why...would we assume that ET needs a spacecraft at all? How are we so bold to assume that ET needs any craft at all to come visit us silly Earthlings. Furthermore, how can we possibly posit that ET would even have a material form at all?

And lastly, when we circle back and include the mathematical side of the ET discussion, in all likelihood ET could be sitting on all of our shoulder's every day and we wouldn't even know it. ET could be looking back at us from our bowl of oatmeal, or in the air we breathe, or in the platelets which coarse through our veins, or as bacteria on our keyboard, or, or...or. You see, we humans really aren't even seriously looking for ET yet, and until we cast aside these preconceived notions of little green men in flying saucers, ET (if it exists) will just be sitting back, pointing, and laughing at us silly humans! Silly humans!

Note - I should have worded that last part differently. I should have said "you" humans, instead of "we", but that's another thread for a later time.

Something to think about.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

While not disagreeing with you wrote, I think we need to clear the deck of some assumptions that have been around a long time.

Regarding the unusual phenomena reported, whether they be UFOs or entities, we know practically nothing except that reports are being made.

Thus, I question using the term "ET". If unusual phenomena is taking place, the origin for the phenomena could very well be like us-- native to earth.

Yes, some UFOs have been spotted, IIRC, in space or in orbit, or both. Yet, that hardly implies the origin of those objects was from another world in the universe as we perceive it. Some have seen UFOs emerging from solid ground or bodies of water.

All we think we know is that something we don't understand is apparently taking place. Any questions as to origin, intelligence, or intent are purely notional at this point.

Then there is the question of how much of the reports concern classified human technology. The militaries and intel operations of various governments have certainly gotten up to many things, be they classified research, technology testing, or disinformation operations. All I will say about that is that they have done a good job in obscuring and confusing the entire topic.

Cheers

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

it will almost certainly not look anything like we do. The notion that ET will have a body, with arms, or legs, or a head, like how we perceive other creatures on our planet is almost laughable.

Maybe they do not need real physical bodies anymore after millions of years of development , and now use Von Neumann probes and Biological 3d printers and maybe have the ability to transfer consciousness into these biological printouts

But at some point in their evolution i would expect they would have needed proper bodies to create and use tools.

Firstly I wouldn't use the term "ET" (extra terrestrial) as your last premise would suggest that they are terrestrial and it's only human hubris to think that they know every being on Earth therefore any other being is ET. Example:- a very large white animal (the Asian white rhino) was only discovered a couple of decades ago in the jungle.
I think if ET was ethereal, ie, sitting on your shoulder or staring out from your cereals, up until yet they have not interacted with humans so technically humans have no need to look or interact with them. Example:- humans know about many species on earth but give them no mind as they are not in there sphere of influence.
The majority of humans, and that includes scientists, only think of ETs in a physical sense, therefore they only look for any physical presence. Therefore you must come to the conclusion that
1. ET has evolved into a sentient being, ie, with the want to look for other sentient beings.
2. ET has reached a level of technology to physically look/travel to search for other beings.
And with 2 comes the reasons for physical attributes.
A. they must have reached a technological stage for manufacture of components for travel.
B. to arrange those components they must have dexterity ie, "digits" to manipulate.
C. they must have vision/sight to see what they are doing.
D. they must have a form of bodily mobility to get around.
And in that respect is why people assume that ET is similar to humans, not human looking but with human attributes.

a reply to: crayzeed

An additional human-like attribute that is often overlooked is that in order for them to achieve their level of technology, they needed to rise to the top of their respective food-chain.

That implies they have the ability to be ruthless and to wage war, which includes the extermination of lesser species where it is considered to be in their best interests (sentient or not).

I do not ascribe to the kumbaya theory that aliens are here to help us. Whatever they are, they are exploiting us for their own gain.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Agreed for the most part, but I guess some clarification is in order. I coupled the recent reports of 'other than earthly' artifacts with my opinions about ET for the purposes of illustration and convenience. You are correct in saying we don't know if these reports have any basis in fact.

Let's see...you covered a number of points, so let's take the term "ET" next. While I don't disagree with the words you said, I do have a minor issue with the context in which you used them. If 'ET' was here (on Earth) all along, then yes, 'it' is technically not "extra"-terrestrial. This is a statement of fact. However, that's not the ET I was referring to. I was referring to an ET of other non-Earth origin.

Regarding classified military operations, equipment and capabilities; as you probably already know, I am very familiar with these types of things as I am exposed to many of them on a daily basis. I am equally aware of intentional, and/or accidental, use of disinformation to obscure classified operations. However, that wasn't really the point. I was actually talking directly about ET. So, yes, some of these unexplained phenomenon could well be classified operations/equipment, but that's not ET (at least not the ET I was referring to).

Lastly, a word on semantics; I used the term "ET" mostly for familiarity (i.e people would recognize it from the movie of the same name). I wasn't really intending to get into literal interpretations of the term "Extra-Terrestrial", other than to imply not of Earthly origin.

Not really disagreeing with anything you've stated, but rather more offering some clarification on the point of my OP.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk you can’t use logic when discussing aliens and UFOs. Too many folks have made the culture and lore their religious belief system. They refuse anything that’s not a part of the established lore- aliens are greys humanoid beings that communicate with us telepathically. People get mad and go blind if you can’t give them that.

a reply to: crayzeed

As I noted to 5thCav, my use of the term "ET" was merely out of convenience and more universal understanding. I could just as easily have used the words "Alien" or "other than Earthly origin"

Otherwise, I guess I generally agree with the points you've made, but my sense is you may be responding to a different theme than was intended in the OP. My intent, bluntly, was to contrast the notion of "My Favorite Martian" with reality of the possibilities of intelligent life not from planet Earth.

I think, on a philosophical level, you make some good points though. Specifically, the notion of...if we're not interacting with it in a meaningful way, does it even matter?...is a valid construct. I think this same concept goes down the path of something else I stated in the OP, and that is...how do we define being 'alone'. This same concept can be implied to intelligence. Intelligent life means one thing to humans, but in the Universe it could mean something completely different or foreign to our perceptions of 'intelligence'. For example, there is intelligence of sorts baked into the laws of Physics. We humans view these things in terms of scientific research and understanding, but we could equally look at atomic structure and ask the question...what gives the electron the intelligence to orbit the proton and neutron assembly?

However, I think if we go too far down that path, we can quickly slip into a discussion about theology which I was consciously avoiding in my OP.

originally posted by: ITSALIVE
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk you can’t use logic when discussing aliens and UFOs. Too many folks have made the culture and lore their religious belief system. They refuse anything that’s not a part of the established lore- aliens are greys humanoid beings that communicate with us telepathically. People get mad and go blind if you can’t give them that.

Understood. This is why I stated in my opening paragraph of the OP that what would follow was simply my opinion.

Trying to change the minds of people who are 'hard-coded' into a different belief structure is, as I like to say, like trying to boil the ocean, or solve world hunger.

As a Falun Dafa practitioner, they are discussed a small bit in some of the texts. That said, through experience and some other things I will say this. They are real, but unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Lots of people mix them up with "angels", "demons", "gods", etc. The reality is, all of those things exist in various forms, but aliens are something of the lowest plane of existence similar to human beings.

In each cycle of the earth (and other earth-like planets), there existed some kind of being that filled the ecological niche of human-like existence here. At the end of each cycle of formation-stasis-degeneration-destruction, some were left and generally had moved to other planets, subterranean, or had developed technology to enter the nearest dimension (think plane of particles) molecules of the largest size.

In other words instead of having their surface existing between molecules and planets/stars, they were able to enter the realm between atoms and molecules. When they develop the technology to do this, it also allows their ships to travel in that space for rapid travel.

Others just exist more or less like humans, but different in form and having followed a different path of science. Some have parts that look like animals, insects, etc. They often think of themselves as quite superior, but they see the human body as something very special, so they want to obtain that form. This is their reason for investigating cloning and other things like dumbing down humans until they give up their main spirit to the point they can "wear" a human form.

The current human form is in fact in the form of divine beings from many many many levels higher than aliens and they are in fact made in God's image. The reason is so they could be worthy of participating in this current situation. It is also the reason aliens are interested in them.

That said, what humans really are is something far superior and aliens are on their way to be cleaned-up/rectified in this process as well, so they can no longer hide in those other dimensions. They know this and are somewhat confused and panicky, though they do still think they are the most superior.

While it all might sound outlandish, it is in fact the situation. They are scientifically adept, have taken another path of science, but are more like artifacts-humanoids or relics. A lot of the development of the last 100 years has been driven by them to make humans easy to assimilate (NPCs is not a bad moniker). This is also something that is being cleaned up.

Since I consider them pretty irrelevant in the big picture, I don't give them much thought, but figured I would contribute anyway. Take it or leave it. It really isn't much of a thing. That said, disclosure will happen, but I think it will probably be very irrelevant when it happens. They will be more like something of the past or nearly extinct.

For more of the picture (the non-alien part), try this.
How Humankind Came to Be

The term ET does cover a lot. Once you get past the stratosphere, anything there counts.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Hey Clay,

Thanks for the reply. Perhaps this initial comment of yours sidetracked me a bit;

and potential extra-terrestrial objects being held by various governments

I thought the term I saw used elsewhere was not "ET objects", but rathers "objects crafted by non-human intelligence" or words to that effect. I prefer the latter for the reasons I mentioned regarding assumptions.

As for you question about whether (ET etc.) exists, yes, I expect somewhere in our universe, ET exists. Whether those other life-forms are responsible for the phenomena reported on our world ... no evidence to indicate that as far as I can tell.

Not trying to sidetrack your thread. I just like to bring up the point about how little we really know concerning the phenomena.

Cheers

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Just to be clear, I'm going to assume that by "ET", you are referring to a (possibly) non-human species that are equal to or more intelligent than we are. If that's incorrect, please expound.

What I think is laughable, is that we think we know anything at all. We're a bi-pedal hominid species on a miniscule ball of dirt in a galaxy (let alone a universe) so large our brain can't comprehend it fully. We are an arrogant, self serving bunch who think we can say with some certainty what is and is not possible with our limited brain capacity, infantile sciences, and irrational beliefs.

We're still stuck in Plato's cave looking at shadows on the wall and building our understanding around what we have observed thus far. Then when someone or something comes along and tells us there's a vast reality beyond what we're seeing, we get upset...because we're real smart, and there can't be anything else beyond what we've established as fact.

Pffft!

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

I think the phrasing you used is more correct than what I used for those alleged artifacts. My phrasing perhaps took some editorial license for the purposes of illustrating the opinion stated in the OP. To say it a different way; those recent reports, coupled with the Navy figher videos from a couple years back, was a coalescing of sorts of all things 'Alien', or so the general theme at the time portrayed it. I just used this uptick in coverage of the 'UFO/Alien/Non-Eartly origin' theme, which had been largely dormant for over a decade prior to these events, as an 'excuse' to state my opinion.

a reply to: Klassified

Yes!

Agreed.

And, pretty much precisely my point, but using different words.

It's my position, that the plants/animals/sea creatures that evolved on Earth represent the various kinds of ET life forms through out the Q uadTrillion Galaxies which are visible to the savage human being terrestrial.... life/organisms are common ETs/Aliens abound all over tis material universe

a spiritual, Deity race also exists and creates supernatural entities for unique purposes....

trust none of these to be benevolent creatures... you were pre- warned to be as naive (naif) children

originally posted by: TheGreazel
a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

it will almost certainly not look anything like we do. The notion that ET will have a body, with arms, or legs, or a head, like how we perceive other creatures on our planet is almost laughable.

Maybe they do not need real physical bodies anymore after millions of years of development , and now use Von Neumann probes and Biological 3d printers and maybe have the ability to transfer consciousness into these biological printouts

But at some point in their evolution i would expect they would have needed proper bodies to create and use tools.

It is also possible that they, if "they" exist (and I believe that to be nearly a certainty), still retain a "physical" form, whatever that might be, and that form is likely not too different from its original.

Still, I agree that a technologically advanced species would likely employ their version of Von Neumann-like probes to explore the Cosmos in the most efficient way possible. Not sure I see any particular advantage to incorporating "biological 3D printing" into their exploratory "mix" however. Biology presents physical limitations (and requirements) to exploration that other forms avoid.

However!, building upon this "print-as-needed" idea....


Consider the possibility that a species advanced enough to have significantly populated our galaxy (and it would have had to be a significant population to find Earth) might be capable of assembling any form of device (or any form of matter and/or energy, for that matter) at any desired location (or time) by directly manipulating the resources available as the quantum foundations of the universe.

In essence, "Manifestation-on-Demand".


Talk about "...indistinguishable from magic..."!

a reply to: Mantiss2021

Your reply borders on another concept too, an almost paradoxical one too...

Any civilization advanced enough to travel the distances involved in our interstellar Universe will have also had to master the ability to transform whatever embodies their intelligence into a mass-less state. As mass goes to zero, Energy becomes largely irrelevant.

This begs the question of why that 'life' form would ever seek out (explore, or whatever you want to call it) specific physical places, like say planet Earth?

Another poster mentioned that if alien life did ever come to Earth it would almost certainly not be to make friends with us humans (aka, they want something we have). But, in order to actually take something we have on Earth, they would have to manifest themselves as a physical entity to seize these things, ergo, they would also need to be able to tranform back from a mass-less state into a physical life form. This last part is almost the final nail in the coffin. Why? Because, if a intelligent life form has the ability to disassemble a physical being at one location, and reassemble that same being at a second location (think: Transporter on Star Trek kind of stuff), then they certainly wouldn't ever need anything us silly humans cold give them...so why would they even make an effort to be observed by humans at all?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

"The problem with immortality is...Boredom!"


Not everything unique to Earth is physical. Music, Art, Culture, are all valuable aspects of life on our planet, aspects which would not be the same anywhere else in the universe.


Then, too


"It's not the Destination. It's the Journey."