the shape of proteins requires an engineer

originally posted by: cooperton

Name one example of a population of organisms evolving into something distinctly new. The research actually says evolution doesn't happen. 73,000+ generations of E. Coli were artificially selected to evolve and not a single evidence that shows it can become anything but E. Coli. It can't even change into some other bacteria, it remains E. Coli. To put things in perspective, 73,000 generations of humans is about 1.5 million years. That is approximately 33% of the time theorized to transition an ape-like creature into a human. So if we can't expect any apparent shift in changing into something distinctly new in that amount of time, it is safe to say evolution does not happen.

You sure like to rehash this over and over. You can go back and reread the dozens of posts already written on this one topic of yours. The environment has a huge impact on evolution as does the sharing of DNA. E. Coli splits every 20 mins asexually through binary fission, so it makes a copy of itself, and that allows it to not change. The predator and prey have had the most impact on evolution. The predator that is most efficient moves on as does the prey with the better defense. Rinse and repeat and you get drastic divergence not seen before. The shark has not changed much over 10s of millions of years because it reached a point of very little change being already top of the food chain in water.

We fully see that life didn't change much from a simple life for billions of years and so 600 million years ago was really the start of life as we think about it. We also know there are many examples of life that have not changed much for 10s of millions of years. Mostly found in water where the environment has the lowest effect. The bottom line is you can't duplicate evolution in a petry dish...

originally posted by: Xtrozero

You sure like to rehash this over and over.

I only say it whenever someone repeats the false statement that evolution has been proven. That's just how many times people fallaciously assume evolution has been observed. E. Coli remains E. Coli, mice remain mice, fruit flies remain fruit flies. I will continue to repeat this as long as people claim evolution has been observed. Organisms adapt, but they cannot change into something new. Evolution in terms of the origin of species does not happen, according to lab results.

Without lab results showing that E. Coli or any other organism can change into something else, it is mere faith that you all rely on. They can't even get E. Coli to change into another kind of prokaryote. It is hard to prove a negative, but this is about as close as you can get. Evolution does not happen.

originally posted by: cooperton

I only say it whenever someone repeats the false statement that evolution has been proven. That's just how many times people fallaciously assume evolution has been observed. E. Coli remains E. Coli, mice remain mice, fruit flies remain fruit flies.

It is true within the narrow range you apply it to. It's been debunked over and over, but yet you still play it out like some smoking gun of truth that a fruit fly doesn't become something else in 1000 generations. You don't look beyond the simple statement you continually fall back to.

You also seem to play two different arguments here with one being only God could provide the spark of life with your engineering statements. The other is all life appeared in its current form frozen in time with no ability to evolve. There is no need for the spark of life argument if God just magically pops life into existence. Also, when was the last time he did that? I'm assuming it would need to be at least a few 1000 for a minimum viable population.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

It's been debunked over and over, but yet you still play it out like some smoking gun of truth that a fruit fly doesn't become something else in 1000 generations. You don't look beyond the simple statement you continually fall back to.

73,000 generations of E. Coli*

What's been debunked? It's still E. Coli, it wasn't able to evolve into anything else. Sure they can adapt, but they cannot evolve. That's what the data shows.

originally posted by: cooperton

73,000 generations of E. Coli*

What's been debunked? It's still E. Coli, it wasn't able to evolve into anything else. Sure they can adapt, but they cannot evolve. That's what the data shows.

This conversation is useless with you...lol

originally posted by: Xtrozero

This conversation is useless with you...lol

Because you can't accept that organisms dont evolve.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: cooperton

73,000 generations of E. Coli*

What's been debunked? It's still E. Coli, it wasn't able to evolve into anything else. Sure they can adapt, but they cannot evolve. That's what the data shows.

This conversation is useless with you...lol

That's because Creationist idiots like Cooperton avoid the definition of evolution: IT'S COMMON ANCESTRY. A turtle never turned into a monkey, a monkey never turned into a fish, an eColi never turned into a snail.

COMMON ANCESTRY means that all life on this planet has some commonality in their genetic profile, some greater than otherS. Primates have around a 97% genetic profile similar to humans. All life on this planet has some percentage of their DNA profile in common.

Evidence for large-scale evolution (macroevolution) comes from anatomy and embryology, molecular biology, biogeography, and fossils.

Similar anatomy found in different species may be homologous (shared due to ancestry)or analogous (shared due to similar selective pressures).

Molecular similarities provide evidence for the shared ancestry of life. DNA sequence comparisons can show how different species are related.

Biogeography, the study of the geographical distribution of organisms, provides information about how and when species may have evolved.

Fossils provide evidence of long-term evolutionary changes, documenting the past existence of species that are now extinct.

If you were a biologist on a spacecraft investigating other planets and you found one with a wide variety of life, the first thing you would do is analyze the different species. If you found that they all had A COMMON LINK IN THEIR DNA, you would say that they HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON. That's how Earth would appear - all life has a common link.

Arguing with idiots like Cooperton is a waste of time. He's a liar and a fraud. He has never come up with a biology textbook that says that an eColi turns into some other creature. But that's a creationist's way of trying to trick you into believing that he's representing the real definition. HE IS NOT.

a reply to: Phantom423

Cool story bro..show one example of evolution occurring in a lab. Lab results show 73,000 generations in a lab and E. Coli is still E. Coli

originally posted by: cooperton

Because you can't accept that organisms dont evolve.

Things are not magically frozen in time, sorry to say and they don't magically just appear in mass out of thin air either.

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: Phantom423

Cool story bro..show one example of evolution occurring in a lab. Lab results show 73,000 generations in a lab and E. Coli is still E. Coli

That's because Creationist idiots like Cooperton avoid the definition of evolution: IT'S COMMON ANCESTRY. A turtle never turned into a monkey, a monkey never turned into a fish, an eColi never turned into a snail.

Isn't that what I said?????????? e Coli never turned into a snail. It's an e Coli. You're a liar and a fraud.

originally posted by: cooperton
Cool story bro..show one example of evolution occurring in a lab. Lab results show 73,000 generations in a lab and E. Coli is still E. Coli

They self-replicate so they are making a mirror image of themselves with no divergent selection going on there, also they divide every 20 mins so no real time for external influences either. We both agree that there should be no changes even after 73,000 generations. Also, it isn't generations, it is binary fission that ends up with identical DNA pairs over and over.

a reply to: cooperton

P.S. I'm not engaging with you in any conversation. I only posted to set the record straight for anyone who's interested. So don't bother to reply.

a reply to: Phantom423

Remember when you posted a theoretical experiment about a recording device the size of Jupiter and thought it was a real experiment?

Lol.

originally posted by: cooperton
a reply to: Phantom423

Cool story bro..show one example of evolution occurring in a lab. Lab results show 73,000 generations in a lab and E. Coli is still E. Coli

Can you link to this research study please?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

They self-replicate so they are making a mirror image of themselves with no divergent selection going on there, also they divide every 20 mins so no real time for external influences either. We both agree that there should be no changes even after 73,000 generations. Also, it isn't generations, it is binary fission that ends up with identical DNA pairs over and over.

This is all theoretical, since evolution doesn't actually happen...

...but it is general consensus that bacteria are capable of evolving faster than humans. So yeah 73,000 generations should yield something that is transitioning away from E. Coli. Literally any other kind of bacteria would suffice to show that evolution might remotely be possible. But it staunchly remains E. Coli after 73,000 generations.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
Can you link to this research study please?

en.m.wikipedia.org...#:~:text=The%20E.,University%20of%20Texas%20at%20Austin.

They're trying to say that bigger cell size and other adaptations are evidence of evolution.. but surely we wouldnt think larger humans are any more evolved than the others. The fact is their experiment showed that 73,000 generations and E. Coli remains E. Coli. Time and time again evolution doesnt stand up to scientific scrutiny.

originally posted by: cooperton
This is all theoretical, since evolution doesn't actually happen...

...but it is general consensus that bacteria are capable of evolving faster than humans. So yeah 73,000 generations should yield something that is transitioning away from E. Coli. Literally any other kind of bacteria would suffice to show that evolution might remotely be possible. But it staunchly remains E. Coli after 73,000 generations.

Did you even read a word I said? It's like you disagree with everything that doesn't align with what you think. What I said is not hard to comprehend, but it seems you just blow it off and go back to your simple point no matter what anyone says. I feel like people are telling you the sky is blue and you say,,, no it is red, my faith tells me it is red and then people just say look out the dam window for once. lol

originally posted by: cooperton
This is explained in the first few chapters of Genesis. The fall of humankind led to death and disease. The flood was also a point when a lot of the prowess of humankind was removed so that they weren't so malignant upon the earth. We inhabit human bodies that were reduced in potential in order to mitigate the potential for destruction that we can wreak upon the earth.

Wow, how convenient. No scientific explanation needed huh?

Name one example of a population of organisms evolving into something distinctly new.

Go to school and get an education. Or at least read up on evolution as that's not how it works. A 'society' doesn't evolve into somthing else. An organism, doesn't just evolve into something else.

Millions of small, tiny mutations occur over millions of years that, if they help the organism to survive moreso than its fellows, it slowly evoles from what it was to what it is. It isn't night and day.

Why do you creationists and religious people have no concept of time?

The research actually says evolution doesn't happen.

100% incorrect, but, keep going...

73,000+ generations of E. Coli were artificially selected to evolve and not a single evidence that shows it can become anything but E. Coli.[/quoyte]
Again, that isn't how evolution works, so, that was a sh*t test or, your interpretation was sh*t. I suspect the latter.

It can't even change into some other bacteria, it remains E. Coli. To put things in perspective, 73,000 generations of humans is about 1.5 million years. That is approximately 33% of the time theorized to transition an ape-like creature into a human. So if we can't expect any apparent shift in changing into something distinctly new in that amount of time, it is safe to say evolution does not happen.

You have no idea what evolution means.

Evolution is also faith-based.

Except it isnt. It's based on observable phenomena. God is not.

There are more recorded instances of virgin-birth than there are of a population of organisms becoming anything distinctly new.

Distinctly new.

Again, go read up what eviolution means. It doesn't mean a single small change means you go from X to Y.

Here - try these:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...
www.scientificamerican.com...

I know you won't read them as they were not in the bible, but some snippets:

Many people learned in elementary school that a theory falls in the middle of a hierarchy of certainty—above a mere hypothesis but below a law. Scientists do not use the terms that way, however. According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is “a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.”

The NAS defines a fact as “an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as ‘true.’” The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time. Although no one observed those transformations, the indirect evidence is clear, unambiguous and compelling.

originally posted by: noonebutme

Wow, how convenient. No scientific explanation needed huh?

Well yeah it's history, not everything can be explained in a lab lol. It wasn't just the Bible that claims that long ago humans were more adept, Hesiod talks of the Golden Age where the earth was so abundant people didn't even need to farm. Same with Hindu history... they all account an initial archetypal state that has deteriorated over time.

Millions of small, tiny mutations occur over millions of years that, if they help the organism to survive moreso than its fellows, it slowly evoles from what it was to what it is. It isn't night and day.

Yes I am aware of the theory. the 73,000 generations of E. Coli that were artificially selected in a lab showed no signs of evolving into any different bacteria. To put that in perspective, 73,000 generations of hominids would be about 1.5 million years. To not exhibit any sort of transition into something new indicates that this time could not have evolved the common ape-like ancestor into a human.

Evolution is based on observable phenomena.

Then show me one example of a population of organisms that have been recorded to evolve into something different. I am not saying E. Coli turning into a snail, or a rabbit into a monkey... I am saying any sort of change that indicates the population of organisms has evolved into something that is no longer the same. Like a finch that becomes anything that is not a finch, maybe like a finch becoming a sparrow. Or perhaps E. Coli becoming a family of salmonella. But it doesn't happen. Finches remain finches, E. Coli remains E. Coli, fruit flies remain fruit flies...

This infuriates the evolutionary dogmatists because their supposed allegiance to science is actually a faith-based system that has no empirical evidence to show it actually happens. Organisms and populations of organisms adapt, but they do not evolve.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

Did you even read a word I said? It's like you disagree with everything that doesn't align with what you think. What I said is not hard to comprehend, but it seems you just blow it off and go back to your simple point no matter what anyone says. I feel like people are telling you the sky is blue and you say,,, no it is red, my faith tells me it is red and then people just say look out the dam window for once. lol

lol what?

You said:

"They self-replicate so they are making a mirror image of themselves with no divergent selection going on there, also they divide every 20 mins so no real time for external influences either. We both agree that there should be no changes even after 73,000 generations."

Which if you stand by that statement then you are essentially saying organisms don't evolve. Bacteria are theorized to be able to evolve faster than hominids. So yes it is alarming that no apparent transition away from an E. Coli was exhibited after 73,000 generations. Again, 73,000 generations is approximately 1.5 million years for hominids. Without a noticeable transition into a new genus, or even a new species for that matter, over that many generations would indicate the theory is bunk. At the very least, it still shows there's no examples of evolution lol. Your faith is strong though!

originally posted by: cooperton
Then show me one example of a population of organisms that have been recorded to evolve into something different. I am not saying E. Coli turning into a snail, or a rabbit into a monkey... I am saying any sort of change that indicates the population of organisms has evolved into something that is no longer the same.

Not sure where your mental impedement lies, but as I said before, 'populations' dont transition into something new.

Individual mutations in a individual orgaisms which benefit that organism over others of its own kind, allow it to survive an pass on its genetic code to the next generations. And this happens over millions of years. It isn't observable in real time.

It IS obersable in the fossil record.

Oh wait - the earth is only 6000 years old according to you and your bible, right?

Like a finch that becomes anything that is not a finch, maybe like a finch becoming a sparrow

Not how it works. Read a book that isn't the bible

This infuriates the evolutionary dogmatists because ...

No. Stupidity and ignorance does.