NHS to Ban Puberty Blockers to Children Outside Research Settings

a reply to: ketsuko

If they pay for it privately then they can do whatever the hell they want. Inject dirty river water directly into your eyeballs for all i care, as long as you don't expect me to pay for your stupidity.

originally posted by: CircumstancialEvidence

On to a more conspiracy minded note and something which may offend yet is purely fact:

There are a lot of dual citizens of a certain ethnic group which occupy many positions of power in western government. These dual citizens follow a belief system put forth in the Talmud a very long time ago:

Zachar, male.

Nekevah, female.

Androgynos, having both male and female characteristics.

Tumtum, lacking sexual characteristics.

Aylonit hamah, identified female at birth but later naturally developing male characteristics.

Aylonit adam, identified female at birth but later developing male characteristics through human intervention.

Saris hamah, identified male at birth but later naturally developing female characteristics.

Saris adam, identified male at birth and later developing female characteristics through human intervention.

www.myjewishlearning.com...

Ive been thinking about this recently, wondering if the original concept of genders and the portrayal of the hermaphrodite in alchemy with many of its roots in the middle east were always meant symbolically, thus psychologically, to attain the state of holding qualities of both genders in balance rather than meant to be acted out upon the physical. These states and their transformation can represent a growth pathway of the individual when they open their mind to awareness of other and the whole.

In this light, each of these eight states of gender can be seen as internal transformative processes. Personally, I think it was never meant to be taken literally but such is the nature of people. The number trans people in high positions in society, with their interesting connections to each other, seems unlikely due to chance. The trickle down into society where we see this play out in the public, aided by complicit governments and corporations is bizarre without knowing the background. Whether those in control take it symbolically or literal, it is damaging without true context and informed consent of the public. Some would say this is the point and damage brings eventual awareness, thus transformation.

Its too bad critical thinking and symbolism wasnt taught in school and society has to take the route of herding itself off a cliff.

This isnt my culture and I lack any depth in its knowledge so Im just stating this from my own interest in symbolism and psychological transformation.

s+f

about time common sense prevailed

a reply to: ketsuko

I hope this experimental approach works out well for the children, but even with all the tools the children may be armed with they still have to face and deal with all the hate, that will be projected towards them, out in the real world.

Also, it appears that treatment for children is in phases and transitional as the document below outlines.

I hope the upcoming research and clinical trials reap benefits for the children and adults suffering.

It appears children already taking puberty suppressing hormones will be handled differently. As well, hormone suppressing hormones will still be administered if it is deemed a harm reducing measure (preventing suicide).

The Service will aim to maintain a therapeutic relationship with young people and their families throughout any subsequent social changes or physical interventions. This ensures that decisions about gender expression and the treatment of gender incongruence are thoughtfully and recurrently considered. The same reasoning applies if a young person has already socially changed gender role prior to being seen by The Service.
Referrals for assessment for endocrine interventions

Separate but linked NHS England clinical commissioning policies will define the use as part of the NHS commissioned service of i) puberty suppressing hormone treatment; and, ii) masculinising / feminising hormones from around the age of 16 years.

Prescribing from unregulated sources and unregulated providers Children, young people and their families are strongly discouraged from sourcing puberty suppressing or gender affirming hormones from unregulated sources or from on-line providers that are not regulated by UK regulatory bodies.

If a child or young person has already been started on puberty suppressing hormones outside of NHS protocols by the time that they are seen by the NHS, The Service may consider assuming clinical responsibility for prescribing through NHS protocols if The Service’s MDT jointly concludes with the related endocrine clinic that this is an appropriate harm reduction measure. In such cases administration of puberty suppressing hormones would need to be stopped for a
brief period of time to allow baseline investigations to be undertaken by The Service. If the patient is felt to be appropriate to be restarted on treatment after assessment by The Service treatment may be resumed in accordance with NHS protocols, including the requirement for the patient to be enrolled in the formal research protocol.

If a young person has already been started on masculinising / feminising hormones outside of NHS protocols, The Service will consider (jointly with the related endocrine clinic) a continuation of prescribing through NHS protocols as a harm reduction measure where ALL of the following criteria are met:

• Evidence of a comprehensive documented assessment by a multidisciplinary team that includes a medical practitioner with specialist expertise in gender incongruence in children and adolescents; and
• Evidence of continued psychological support through engagement with the MDT; and • Administration of puberty suppressing hormones was commenced not before Tanner stage 2; and
• Masculinising / feminising hormones commenced after at least twelve months on puberty suppressing hormones; and
• Masculinising / feminising hormones were commenced not before approximately 16 years of age; and
• Evidence that impact to fertility was discussed with the young person before initiation of the hormones.

www.england.nhs.uk... -People.pdf

It is clear to me that nobody really knows what they are doing and all of this is the NHS switching gears to limit the risk of being sued.

I hope this new approach proves fruitful.

a reply to: quintessentone

Pills that are billed to "prevent suicide" rarely achieve that goal. It could be argued they do the exact opposite.

Don't feed your kids pills or stupidity and they'll be fine.

and they still dont address the underlying health issues that cause the problem

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Pills that are billed to "prevent suicide" rarely achieve that goal. It could be argued they do the exact opposite.

Don't feed your kids pills or stupidity and they'll be fine.

None of us can speak to that and time will tell whether or not the suicide rate will increase without the pills.

a reply to: quintessentone

There's certainly some debate on the subject within the medical field.

Suicide and antidepressants

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

There's certainly some debate on the subject within the medical field.

Suicide and antidepressants

Suicidal thoughts are not always driven by depression and that applies to trans people. As well, there are different ways of helping people manage a suicidal crisis along with different drug therapies.

Suicidal thoughts or behaviors can be one way that a person deals with problems associated with a significant life crisis or intense emotional pain. In our recent book, we stress that suicidality is not always driven by psychiatric illness, and that there is a psychotherapy tool set that is useful in managing a suicidal crisis derived from a variety of etiologies. Mental health professionals often find themselves dealing with a patient presenting with suicidal behaviors. The appropriate use of medication is an important tool both in treating a specific psychiatric illness and in reducing excess negative feelings (sadness, anxiety, or shame) that contribute to suicidal thoughts.

psychnews.psychiatryonline.org...

a reply to: quintessentone

Meh, if my child has a psychological problem, drugs would be the very last resort. A lot of neurotic mothers with no patience for behaviors they don't understand, treat them as a first option.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Meh, if my child has a psychological problem, drugs would be the very last resort. A lot of neurotic mothers with no patience for behaviors they don't understand, treat them as a first option.

It really isn't up to the mothers or fathers, it's up to the medical professionals as they are the only ones with the medical expertise to properly assess psychological issues and how to help the child.

a reply to: quintessentone

The safety, well being and mental health of your children is the responsibility of parents and before medication, it might be an idea to reflect on the content and environment parents subject them to. Choosing to wear provocative clothing, wearing makeup, wanting to mutilate your reproductive organs, being pumped full of drugs etc is not indicative of a well balanced or mentally healthy young boy. These behaviors are not encoded within our biology or brain chemistry, they're social constructs which we have indoctrinated them into following.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

The safety, well being and mental health of your children is the responsibility of parents and before medication, it might be an idea to reflect on the content and environment parents subject them to. Choosing to wear provocative clothing, wearing makeup, wanting to mutilate your reproductive organs, being pumped full of drugs etc is not indicative of a well balanced or mentally healthy young boy. These behaviors are not encoded within our biology or brain chemistry, they're social constructs which we have indoctrinated them into following.

So just how would you deal with a young boy of yours deciding they want to wear non-traditional gender assigned-type clothing?

There must be arrests and prison time for such child abuse. Child abuse IS illegal despite the recent politics and travesty of justice. We all know that. In the UK, Canada, US, etc. Butchering a child's body is literally that. It is blatant child abuse and an assault on the law and our fundamental principles as a civilized people.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: ketsuko

I definitely agree that children lack the ability to make such an important decision for themselves. But I do think the right needs to leave the adults alone who are choosing to change their bodies.

The adults can do whatever they like, at the same time, they need to leave us alone, quit being so demanding of us, to play along with the made up language and terminology games, we are not here to validate them, if some want to that, it's perfectly fine, but not everyone wants to participate.

Long long past due.

Glad a measure of sanity is continuing to leak out from the nordic countries that started this mess, hopefully more western nations realize those things are not without consequences for the kids down the road.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: ketsuko

I definitely agree that children lack the ability to make such an important decision for themselves. But I do think the right needs to leave the adults alone who are choosing to change their bodies.

Your two sentences contradict.

You first say children lack the ability to make that choice for themselves, but then you say the ones who choose to make that choice need to be left alone?

How about this - You make up your mind. Either kids can decide or they can't, but if a kid can decide they need to try to force their body physically to match what they prefer to believe it should be, then they ought to also be able to drive from the age, buy firearms, drink, smoke, vote, and do any number of other things we have decided societally they are not equipped as children to do because they are simply not mentally developed enough to make those kids of life altering decisions for themselves.

I think the meaning of the second sentence is,

But I do think the right needs to leave the adults alone who are choosing to change their (own) bodies.

Although there may be some long-term benefits for commencing gender re-assignment therapy at or right before puberty for a person who really wants to go that way, but that just seems too young an age for a person to decide. The NHS ruling sounds reasonable.

I guess precocious trans youngsters can opt for going the experimental route if they really think they need to, but there needs to be a much more thorough vetting system.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: ketsuko

I definitely agree that children lack the ability to make such an important decision for themselves. But I do think the right needs to leave the adults alone who are choosing to change their bodies.

Your two sentences contradict.

You first say children lack the ability to make that choice for themselves, but then you say the ones who choose to make that choice need to be left alone?

How about this - You make up your mind. Either kids can decide or they can't, but if a kid can decide they need to try to force their body physically to match what they prefer to believe it should be, then they ought to also be able to drive from the age, buy firearms, drink, smoke, vote, and do any number of other things we have decided societally they are not equipped as children to do because they are simply not mentally developed enough to make those kids of life altering decisions for themselves.

How about you learn to read. The first sentence talks about children. The second talks about adults. I’m sure you know the difference, no?

a reply to: quintessentone

Never happened to me or any of the people I know. The only “trans” person I’ve ever met is certifiably insane and basically a homosexual who can’t admit it to himself. Boys with strong active father figures who’ve brought them up to encourage their natural masculinity are never going to suddenly change their entire identity for attention. Not that anyone will admit it but these kids are being raised by irresponsible overbearing mothers who don’t understand men.

originally posted by: Grenade
a reply to: quintessentone

Never happened to me or any of the people I know. The only “trans” person I’ve ever met is certifiably insane and basically a homosexual who can’t admit it to himself. Boys with strong active father figures who’ve brought them up to encourage their natural masculinity are never going to suddenly change their entire identity for attention. Not that anyone will admit it but these kids are being raised by irresponsible overbearing mothers who don’t understand men.

Well, that lack of understanding goes the other way too because if you read any psychologist's advice to parents of young children that want to experiment with playing with other genders' toys, clothes etc. you will learn that it is a completely normal phase. So it appears your bias' run deep.