Foreshadowing the psychological effects of living in 15 minute cities..

a reply to: Moon68
My goodness, you and LSU, what places. Please can you get a couple of containers (I'll pay) put them in the middle of nowhere, then when SHTF here in the UK I can run away to you.

a reply to: olaru12
What would Jesus do????? He would do what he did before, go around preaching. But, he would be arrested for inciting trouble and he would be crucified again.

I love getting outraged over optional things.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I have been keeping up with the news about the proposals for 15 minute cities, and of course always considered them a horrible idea.

And you've lost me completely there, of course.

Our first settlements had multiple temples/ churches, wells and market-places for a reason. And compared with the early city planning, our 10 lane highways would be the actual, horrible status quo we've been conditioned to accept. Until we don't.

Revolution or suicide.

There's a far more likely scenario: revolutions and extinction. The neo-liberal state could be described as a state of constant revolutions, but that doesn't seem to stop us from walking straight into extinction as a species, in order to survive on an individual level. Let that sink in for a minute?

Exhibit A, revolutions wont suffice. We'd need nothing short of a real transgression in our culture, right? And how is that going to happen when 15 minute cities for the working class would be too much to fathom already, not at all? The world moves on, faster than one could ride it.

I live in a 15 minute city essentially. I call it my little bubble and I love it. Have no need to go into the big city which is just 20 miles away, and the expressway is miles from my house so if I want to go up into the high country of Colorado I just get in my car and go.

Are you implying if you live in a 15 minute city you can’t go outside it?

originally posted by: knoxie

Are you implying if you live in a 15 minute city you can’t go outside it?

That's ultimately the plan-

From the Oxford city council site as of March 3, 2023:

"The traffic filters are not physical barriers of any kind and will not be physical road closures. They are simply traffic cameras that can read number plates.
If a vehicle passes through the filter at certain times of the day, the camera will read the number plate and (if you do not have an exemption or a residents’ permit) you will receive a fine in the post.
Oxford residents (and residents of some surrounding villages) will be able to apply for a permit to drive through the filters on up to 100 days a year. Residents living in the rest of Oxfordshire will be able to apply for a permit to drive through the filter on up to 25 days a year."

LINK

Apply for a permit or get fined - all the while being constantly surveilled.
But they will stop there and take it no further right?


Yeah right

Do you think those cameras would be used as surveillance as well? Would that be good or bad?

a reply to: knoxie

You think that they wouldn't?
The FBI will monitor parents complaining at school board meetings as domestic terrorists. Where is this line that you assume the gov't will not cross? Judging from history I don't believe there is one.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

The classic "15 minute city" is actually "small town America."


Work, shopping, dining, entertainment, etc, are all within a 15 minute drive and easy to get to on foot or on bicycle. There's lots of towns like this in Europe. If you absolutely need something else, you drive to a different location or order via Internet (Amazon.com, for example.)

Right now our vacation spot is in a 15 minute town.

Most ancient cities were "15 minute cities" (even on foot) - one of the towns we lived in (Gelnhausen, Germany) is still a 15 minute town (30-50 minutes from Frankfurt.) The concept is literally a return to the roots of humanity; living in smaller areas with more resources.

Easier to police, easier for police and citizens to get to know one another.

Some of you seem to be getting this concept from content providers who get eyeballs if they shout about something scary and dangerous ... so they exaggerate the possibilities. The idea of "fines and tolls for going outside 15 minutes" isn't workable in any system because you need to have food and goods entering and you need to ship products of your area to other locations. While some content providers are suggesting this, a glance at the current "15 minute cities" shows that it's really just a silly and hysterical idea. The city would quite literally die within weeks if you couldn't get access to other cities and towns.

a reply to: Byrd

I'm a sucker for old maps, so your post naturally made me look up the Kaiserpfalz on Kinzig-island. Nice spot for an imperial stronghold on a king-sick island!

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: knoxie

Are you implying if you live in a 15 minute city you can’t go outside it?

That's ultimately the plan-

From the Oxford city council site as of March 3, 2023:

"The traffic filters are not physical barriers of any kind and will not be physical road closures. They are simply traffic cameras that can read number plates.
If a vehicle passes through the filter at certain times of the day, the camera will read the number plate and (if you do not have an exemption or a residents’ permit) you will receive a fine in the post.
Oxford residents (and residents of some surrounding villages) will be able to apply for a permit to drive through the filters on up to 100 days a year. Residents living in the rest of Oxfordshire will be able to apply for a permit to drive through the filter on up to 25 days a year."

LINK

Apply for a permit or get fined - all the while being constantly surveilled.
But they will stop there and take it no further right?


Yeah right

I actually cannot see this passing Constitutional muster in the US. Freedom of movement was so widely recognized as a fundamental right going back to the Articles of Confederation the the founders didn't even consider it needed to be mentioned while drafting the Constitution. The Right to move about was ruled on in Corfield v. Coryell (1823) and Paul v. Virginia (1869). In Crandall v. Nevada (1868), the court declared it as a fundamental right and stated a State could not impose a tax (poll tax) for an individuals movement out of the state. U.S. v. Wheeler (1920) reiterated this position in addition to placing the Right too Move under the purview of the privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment.

a reply to: Moon68

Although tolls could be implemented for whatever reason. If you are going to use the roads often then said roads will need repairing more often, therefore those who use it most often should pay the larger portion for said repairs.

a reply to: Byrd

I think you may be missing the point Professor. Living someplace that has all the amenities one could ask for within 15 minutes is one thing. Being told you MUST live where everything the government thinks you need is within 15 minutes and you'll be fined if you leave the area too much is quite another.

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Moon68

Although tolls could be implemented for whatever reason. If you are going to use the roads often then said roads will need repairing more often, therefore those who use it most often should pay the larger portion for said repairs.

Should government set up tolls for soccer moms walking on the sidewalks to help pay repairs? Everyone pays a portion for taxes collected for infrastructure repair. Commercial traffic will cause more damage to a roadway than Joe Snuffy going to visit his elderly mother a couple times a week.

This is nothing more than a control play from those that consider themselves the betters of the average citizen.

a reply to: Moon68

I love it! I tried to upload a picture I took, from my road, of a super moon back around 2012 but it won't upload. The land looks a lot like yours.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Moon68
My goodness, you and LSU, what places. Please can you get a couple of containers (I'll pay) put them in the middle of nowhere, then when SHTF here in the UK I can run away to you.

When SHTF, you could be out here and stay put and probably be fine for a long time. I'm far from any city. Always houses for sale out here too.

originally posted by: Moon68

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Moon68

Although tolls could be implemented for whatever reason. If you are going to use the roads often then said roads will need repairing more often, therefore those who use it most often should pay the larger portion for said repairs.

Should government set up tolls for soccer moms walking on the sidewalks to help pay repairs? Everyone pays a portion for taxes collected for infrastructure repair. Commercial traffic will cause more damage to a roadway than Joe Snuffy going to visit his elderly mother a couple times a week.

This is nothing more than a control play from those that consider themselves the betters of the average citizen.

I would propose walking surfaces not made of materials that would need constant maintenance. Our manmade materials have come a long way baby, so let's think long-term money savings and comfort for walking, biking and scootering.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Moon68

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Moon68

Although tolls could be implemented for whatever reason. If you are going to use the roads often then said roads will need repairing more often, therefore those who use it most often should pay the larger portion for said repairs.

Should government set up tolls for soccer moms walking on the sidewalks to help pay repairs? Everyone pays a portion for taxes collected for infrastructure repair. Commercial traffic will cause more damage to a roadway than Joe Snuffy going to visit his elderly mother a couple times a week.

This is nothing more than a control play from those that consider themselves the betters of the average citizen.

I would propose walking surfaces not made of materials that would need constant maintenance. Our manmade materials have come a long way baby, so let's think long-term money savings and comfort for walking, biking and scootering.

Again, the point is missed. I find it fundamentally wrong for a government to determine a zone for people to live and fine those people if they try leaving that zone too much.

This isn't the f-ing Hunger Games..........yet.

originally posted by: crayzeed
a reply to: Moon68
My goodness, you and LSU, what places. Please can you get a couple of containers (I'll pay) put them in the middle of nowhere, then when SHTF here in the UK I can run away to you.

Honestly, it would be a better value to build a small 1-2 bedroom slab house. By the time you purchase the container, set it up and refit it, a small house would be cheaper.

originally posted by: Moon68

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Moon68

originally posted by: quintessentone
a reply to: Moon68

Although tolls could be implemented for whatever reason. If you are going to use the roads often then said roads will need repairing more often, therefore those who use it most often should pay the larger portion for said repairs.

Should government set up tolls for soccer moms walking on the sidewalks to help pay repairs? Everyone pays a portion for taxes collected for infrastructure repair. Commercial traffic will cause more damage to a roadway than Joe Snuffy going to visit his elderly mother a couple times a week.

This is nothing more than a control play from those that consider themselves the betters of the average citizen.

I would propose walking surfaces not made of materials that would need constant maintenance. Our manmade materials have come a long way baby, so let's think long-term money savings and comfort for walking, biking and scootering.

Again, the point is missed. I find it fundamentally wrong for a government to determine a zone for people to live and fine those people if they try leaving that zone too much.

This isn't the f-ing Hunger Games..........yet.

It would depend on the reasoning behind the tolls/fines. Do you know what the reasoning may be?