Proof Creationism Is BS

a reply to: Quadrivium

Which is taken on faith.
I can separate what I believe from know fact, why can't you and others?

So then, you agree that the Genisis creation story isn't meant to be taken literally, that's it allegorical? Adam having been created first, and the biblical god seeing that "It's not good for man to be alone", created Eve, who is ultimately responsible for all of humanity being exiled from Eden, is all just a reflection of culture and justification, right?

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

Except, the creation story of Gensis does try to tell us how it happened, not so much why creation happened. Believers can only speculate on the reason why the biblical god created the heavens and the earth, etc.

Genesis does not say how... Just that God did it. The "why" is because God wanted it. Now when we ask how did God do it the idea of God using the laws of the universe he created is somehow wrong to think that for creationists.

The real debate is about intelligent design against a random process. Personally, I do not see a need for intelligent design, so I lean in the direction that we are here by random acts as to where the evolution process might take life.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Quadrivium

Which is taken on faith.
I can separate what I believe from know fact, why can't you and others?

So then, you agree that the Genisis creation story isn't meant to be taken literally, that's it allegorical? Adam having been created first, and the biblical god seeing that "It's not good for man to be alone", created Eve, who is ultimately responsible for all of humanity being exiled from Eden, is all just a reflection of culture and justification, right?

I take it on faith as being true.
I can not prove or disprove it but I believe it to be true.
I believe that God created everything and though God all things are possible.
That is my faith. That is what I believe.
I have no evidence, it is faith.
I can admit it, not sure why others can't do the same with their faith.
Eta; and I RARELY discuss it, unless asked.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Creationism vs not-creationism is does evolution take life somewhere or does life exist.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

So then, you agree that the Genisis creation story isn't meant to be taken literally, that's it allegorical? Adam having been created first, and the biblical god seeing that "It's not good for man to be alone", created Eve, who is ultimately responsible for all of humanity being exiled from Eden, is all just a reflection of culture and justification, right?

I kind of think that Edan is the world of animals where none wore clothes, are typically not self-aware, evil does exist, etc in the natural world of animals. When Adam and Eve became self-aware as a species they left the world of the jungle so to speak, never to return. That could be the story of evolution...

originally posted by: Quadrivium

I take it on faith as being true.

That's the most beautiful evidence to have, to know wrong from right.

originally posted by: Untun

Creationism vs not-creationism is does evolution take life somewhere or does life exist.

I don't fully understand what you are saying. Creationists mostly think that life was created in its current form. We can even suggest that there is no such thing as life as we think of it and it is just a social construct to explain advanced chemical processes.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Genesis does not say how... Just that God did it.

He made man, in his image, how? From the dust of the earth, then he "blew" life into him. He made Eve how? By putting Adam into a deep sleep, extracting a rib, creating her from his rib.

The "why" is because God wanted it.

The Bible says no such thing. It does say he thought what he did was "good".

The real debate is about intelligent design against a random process.

The real debate? Or the debate you want to have? This thread is about Adam's nipples, not intelligent design. What's intelligent about that? LOL

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

He made man, in his image, how? From the dust of the earth, then he "blew" life into him. He made Eve how? By putting Adam into a deep sleep, extracting a rib, creating her from his rib.

Well, that explains it all...

The Bible says no such thing. It does say he thought what he did was "good".

Actually, it does...

Genesis 1:31. Behold, it was very good — It had been said of each day’s work, except the second, that it was good, but now, of every thing, that it was very good. For man, the master-piece of God’s works, and his visible image and deputy here on earth, was now formed and constituted the head and governor of the whole.

The real debate? Or the debate you want to have? This thread is about Adam's nipples, not intelligent design. What's intelligent about that? LOL

In the title "Creationism" is that not intelligent design?

This is the OP's point...

is conclusive proof there is no Creator

So you just want to talk about nipples?

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

He made man, in his image, how? From the dust of the earth, then he "blew" life into him. He made Eve how? By putting Adam into a deep sleep, extracting a rib, creating her from his rib.

Well, that explains it all...

It has satiated the masses up to this point, even in this thread.

The Bible says no such thing. It does say he thought what he did was "good".

Actually, it does...


Genesis 1:31. Behold, it was very good — It had been said of each day’s work, except the second, that it was good, but now, of every thing, that it was very good. For man, the master-piece of God’s works, and his visible image and deputy here on earth, was now formed and constituted the head and governor of the whole.

What? What bible are you reading? The King James Version says:

Genisis 1:41
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

At any rate, whatever you're quoting there, doesn't say anything about the God of Genisis creating anything because "he wanted to.

In the title "Creationism" is that not intelligent design?

Not necessarily. Often, biblical creationists justify the intelligence of the design, while scientist question it. Like, why is there a proverbial amusement park/entertainment center right next to the sewage department? I know, it's Eve's fault.

This is the OP's point...

The OP only addresses the Gensis account of creationism, not all creationism. Alien overlords, for example.

So you just want to talk about nipples?

That's the OP's point of contention within that particular belief system, for the purpose of this thread. There's a bunch more, like the "Y" Chromosome, genetic diversity and why are humans the only animals that can choke to death on their own spit? I know, it's Eve's fault.

originally posted by: TerraLiga
a reply to: incoserv

Allow me to summarise your response (using the bible to defend the bible...).
...

No, I didn't say any of that. You are twisting my words because you are mad at God and want to smear me in a attempt to destroy my argument. Nothing you said has any relevance to anything I said. My faith is, as I said, based on observation. Observation is the first step and basis of the scientific method. I observe a cosmos that is ordered, highly complex and exhibits a purpose. I therefore deduct that it was planned and built that way, just as you know that the device you are looking at didn't just pop out of The Void.

"Peer reviewed research?" That's laughable. Have a look at a paper entitled Peer review: A philosophically faulty concept which is proving disastrous for science published online by Cambridge University Press as early as February, 2010.

People lie. Evidence doesn't. Creation is evidence of intelligent design just like your phone/computer/tablet is.

originally posted by: incoserv
Observation is the first step and basis of the scientific method. I observe a cosmos that is ordered, highly complex and exhibits a purpose. I therefore deduct that it was planned and built that way, just as you know that the device you are looking at didn't just pop out of The Void.

How deep do you observe?

Just a cursory glance at the surface of things?

Or do you try to observe deep to try and understand how things are ordered and what makes them complex? The ultimate how and why can be God if you want it to be. Science doesn't take that away from you, or anyone.

Why not use science as a tool to study and marvel at the beauty of Creation, and a way to bring you closer to your God?

originally posted by: incoserv
People lie.

I think that statement would include the people who made up the Council of Nicaea.

What's good for the goose and all that jazz.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: Quadrivium

Which is taken on faith.
I can separate what I believe from know fact, why can't you and others?

So then, you agree that the Genisis creation story isn't meant to be taken literally, that's it allegorical? Adam having been created first, and the biblical god seeing that "It's not good for man to be alone", created Eve, who is ultimately responsible for all of humanity being exiled from Eden, is all just a reflection of culture and justification, right?

ask Him if you see Him

i'd say HE just gave us another thing to think and discuss besides the spectrum of trans and other boring man made bs.


so yes, you are correct.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer

originally posted by: incoserv
Observation is the first step and basis of the scientific method. I observe a cosmos that is ordered, highly complex and exhibits a purpose. I therefore deduct that it was planned and built that way, just as you know that the device you are looking at didn't just pop out of The Void.

How deep do you observe?

Just a cursory glance at the surface of things?

Or do you try to observe deep to try and understand how things are ordered and what makes them complex? The ultimate how and why can be God if you want it to be. Science doesn't take that away from you, or anyone.

Why not use science as a tool to study and marvel at the beauty of Creation, and a way to bring you closer to your God?

I agree completely with that, and though I am not a "scientist," (a moniker that holds less and less value as the days go by), I do enjoy science and read and study what I can comprehend. The more I learn, the more my faith is an intelligent Creator is bolstered.

I once had a conversation with a Russian physicist who taught at a major US university. I told him that the more I read about physics, the more I certain I was that an intelligent Creator was behind it all. This answer from this Russian physicist - a man raised and educated under atheistic communism - surprised me. He said, "The deeper you get into the math behind creation, the more evidenet it is that God is behind it all."

originally posted by: Xtrozero
We can even suggest that there is no such thing as life as we think of it and it is just a social construct to explain advanced chemical processes.

That would explain that either we create life or life created/creates us.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha

At any rate, whatever you're quoting there, doesn't say anything about the God of Genisis creating anything because "he wanted to.

LOL just stop it... Are you looking for my exact words now? What does this mean?

man, the master-piece of God’s works

The OP only addresses the Gensis account of creationism, not all creationism. Alien overlords, for example.

The generalization in all this is either intelligent design or not, you pick whatever God. I tend to keep it all generic, otherwise, things kind of spiral out of control.

originally posted by: Untun

That would explain that either we create life or life created/creates us.

Or there is no such thing as life. We kind of pick and choose what life is anyways. A lighted match or star is life by our definition, and there might be things out there we call life but don't act like any life we know.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
The generalization in all this is either intelligent design or not, you pick whatever God. I tend to keep it all generic, otherwise, things kind of spiral out of control.

OP specifically mentions Adam so I think the god they are talking about is locked in.

a reply to: Xtrozero

LOL just stop it... Are you looking for my exact words now? What does this mean?

Oh no you don't! You get to plagiarize the Bible and then say "semantics and inuendo"! We're debating the scientific applicability of the Genisis creation story. Not some Rabbi's theory of what God was thinking on the 6th day.

The generalization in all this is either intelligent design or not, you pick whatever God.

We are talking about the unlikely intelligence of the design of the god of the Genisis creation story here.