Astra Zenaka banned in Australia

a reply to: ScepticScot

The astrazeneca vacimne was used widely and had benefits over the MRNA vaccine for distribution. The fact that it was superseded by other vaccines is indicative of the success of MRNA vaccines, not the failure of Astrazeneca.

Not really, they are all failures when it comes to clotting disorders. All known since 2021, but until everyone's stockpiles dwindle some more, they' won't publicly acknowledge it.

Vaccines and Rare Clotting Disorders: What's the Link?

April 26, 2021 - One hypothesis is that the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna) and those using adenoviruses (AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson) could induce synthesis of the COVID spike protein within platelets, which may then trigger autoimmune reactions against platelets,

www.medpagetoday.com...

a reply to: Deetermined

You have a strange definition of failure.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ScepticScot

That doesn't mean that the Astrazeneca vaccine didn't work or was unsafe it just means others were better.

You're just being dense. No wonder the same stuff gets repeated on here over and over. You're still ignoring the fact that the Australian government initially admitted that it was the increased risk and severity of Thrombosis back in June 2021 that made them decide to stop purchasing AZ and purchase more doses from Pfizer instead.

You failed to understand me when I said all vaccines have risks and I am being dense? They used another vaccine that had less risk. They made public recommendations to that affect and that makes you think they are now lying?

People die from taking antibiotics every year, maybe you agree with Asmode that we should ban antibiotics?

Strawman at the bottom of your reply.

Stop the vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality and stop defending the Pharmaceuticals.

The miracle of science was ditched back in April 2021 in Denmark. Then most other countries that used it have stopped using it a few months later. It took 2 years for Australia to do what they should have done long time ago.

Not the greatest success story. A vaccine that has been withdrawn pretty much from all countries thaits not have used it after 'rare adverse events'.

It's not a strawman, it's what you said on another thread and very relevant to your lack of understanding of risk. Please learn what a strawman actually is, you continually misuse it.

The astrazeneca vacimne was used widely and had benefits over the MRNA vaccine for distribution. The fact that it was superseded by other vaccines is indicative of the success of MRNA vaccines, not the failure of Astrazeneca.

I think it's very telling that you now have to focus on a single make of vaccine.

Of course it is a strawman argument. You are gravitating between strawman arguments and denialism of reality, defending the pharmaceuticals companies on the way.

As I said in many of replies the vaccine ideology is a legitimate as the transgender ideology.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ScepticScot

The astrazeneca vacimne was used widely and had benefits over the MRNA vaccine for distribution. The fact that it was superseded by other vaccines is indicative of the success of MRNA vaccines, not the failure of Astrazeneca.

Not really, they are all failures when it comes to clotting disorders. All known since 2021, but until everyone's stockpiles dwindle some more, they' won't publicly acknowledge it.

Vaccines and Rare Clotting Disorders: What's the Link?

April 26, 2021 - One hypothesis is that the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna) and those using adenoviruses (AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson) could induce synthesis of the COVID spike protein within platelets, which may then trigger autoimmune reactions against platelets,

www.medpagetoday.com...

Only the fact that the AZ vaccine has been withdrawn from most countries that have used it including the UK where it was produced shows precisely how successful the vaccine was...

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: ScepticScot

That doesn't mean that the Astrazeneca vaccine didn't work or was unsafe it just means others were better.

You're just being dense. No wonder the same stuff gets repeated on here over and over. You're still ignoring the fact that the Australian government initially admitted that it was the increased risk and severity of Thrombosis back in June 2021 that made them decide to stop purchasing AZ and purchase more doses from Pfizer instead.

Ignoring the facts will result in more repetition. You are correct about this one just as you are correct about the other comments you have made. When the vaccine apologists and the defenders of the pharmaceuticals conveniently ignore the facts then they will hit again with the same facts ad infinitum.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Deetermined

You have a strange definition of failure.

I thought it was pretty well established that anything that's hurting more than helping was a failure.

The vaccines were never and have never proven to be effective against Covid. My personal story about my daughter contracting Covid within 30 days of her vaccination was more proof of that (along with countless other stories from others). And then slowly, the vaccine was never proven to keep people out of the hospital or having less side effects.

In hindsight, the truth is, it was better to contract Covid and get over it naturally than getting vaccinated.

a reply to: ScepticScot


More facts

www.bbc.com...

Covid: Jack Last died as result of AstraZeneca vaccine – coroner

A man died of a blood clot that was a "direct result" of having the AstraZeneca Covid jab, a coroner said.

Jack Last, 27, from Stowmarket, was vaccinated on 30 March 2021 and a week later was admitted to hospital after experiencing headaches and sickness.

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Deetermined

You have a strange definition of failure.

I thought it was pretty well established that anything that's hurting more than helping was a failure.

The vaccines were never and have never proven to be effective against Covid. My personal story about my daughter contracting Covid within 30 days of her vaccination was more proof of that (along with countless other stories from others). And then slowly, the vaccine was never proven to keep people out of the hospital or having less side effects.

In hindsight, the truth is, it was better to contract Covid and get over it naturally than getting vaccinated.

The member is even trying to insinuate that the mRNA products are safer and more effective than the AZ and J & J vaccines. He has missed quite a lot of episodes of the series as it seems...on the mRNA greatest medical scandal in history.

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Everyone and I mean everyone is allowed to post here on topic and to do so without being called names or becoming the target of others' posts. Debate the topic and leave each other out of it. OPPOSING VIEWPOINTS are encouraged.

The topic is Astra Zenaka banned in Australia


These rules apply to all threads and if you want to engage in personal attacks there are other sites on the Internet where you can do that. Our goal is for ATS to be above that. For members here to post like mature adults.
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originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Deetermined

You have a strange definition of failure.

I thought it was pretty well established that anything that's hurting more than helping was a failure.

The vaccines were never and have never proven to be effective against Covid. My personal story about my daughter contracting Covid within 30 days of her vaccination was more proof of that (along with countless other stories from others). And then slowly, the vaccine was never proven to keep people out of the hospital or having less side effects.

In hindsight, the truth is, it was better to contract Covid and get over it naturally than getting vaccinated.

Only that isn't true.

Study after study, which you say you read, gad shown they are very effective against serious outcomes of covid.

Overall the benefits massively outweigh the risks.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Deetermined

You have a strange definition of failure.

I thought it was pretty well established that anything that's hurting more than helping was a failure.

The vaccines were never and have never proven to be effective against Covid. My personal story about my daughter contracting Covid within 30 days of her vaccination was more proof of that (along with countless other stories from others). And then slowly, the vaccine was never proven to keep people out of the hospital or having less side effects.

In hindsight, the truth is, it was better to contract Covid and get over it naturally than getting vaccinated.

Only that isn't true.

Study after study, which you say you read, gad shown they are very effective against serious outcomes of covid.

Overall the benefits massively outweigh the risks.

Yep! That's why the miracle of science the AZ vaccine was withdrawn in Australia just as in most countries that have used it.

It was 'safe and effective'

A man died of a blood clot that was a "direct result" of having the AstraZeneca Covid jab, a coroner said.

Jack Last, 27, from Stowmarket, was vaccinated on 30 March 2021 and a week later was admitted to hospital after experiencing headaches and sickness.

a reply to: ScepticScot


pharmanewsintel.com...

European Countries Suspend Use of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 Vaccine

AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine may cause unusual blood clots with low blood platelets and should be listed as a rare side effect, the European Medicines Agency said.

Since then they have banned the AZ vaccine because of these 'unusual bloods clots' in the brain and the myriads of other serious adverse reactions.

You seem to believe the mRNA products must be more safe and effective. The AZ vaccine is benign in comparison. You may have missed all the threads recording the deaths and debilitating conditions caused by the mRNA products. Don't worry you can catch up sometime later. Perhaps in a year from now.

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Deetermined

You have a strange definition of failure.

I thought it was pretty well established that anything that's hurting more than helping was a failure.

The vaccines were never and have never proven to be effective against Covid. My personal story about my daughter contracting Covid within 30 days of her vaccination was more proof of that (along with countless other stories from others). And then slowly, the vaccine was never proven to keep people out of the hospital or having less side effects.

In hindsight, the truth is, it was better to contract Covid and get over it naturally than getting vaccinated.

Only that isn't true.

Study after study, which you say you read, gad shown they are very effective against serious outcomes of covid.

Overall the benefits massively outweigh the risks.

Yep! That's why the miracle of science the AZ vaccine was withdrawn in Australia just as in most countries that have used it.

It was 'safe and effective'

A man died of a blood clot that was a "direct result" of having the AstraZeneca Covid jab, a coroner said.

Jack Last, 27, from Stowmarket, was vaccinated on 30 March 2021 and a week later was admitted to hospital after experiencing headaches and sickness.

Australia switched to MRNA vaccines as they work better , as did the UK.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Asmodeus3

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Deetermined

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Deetermined

You have a strange definition of failure.

I thought it was pretty well established that anything that's hurting more than helping was a failure.

The vaccines were never and have never proven to be effective against Covid. My personal story about my daughter contracting Covid within 30 days of her vaccination was more proof of that (along with countless other stories from others). And then slowly, the vaccine was never proven to keep people out of the hospital or having less side effects.

In hindsight, the truth is, it was better to contract Covid and get over it naturally than getting vaccinated.

Only that isn't true.

Study after study, which you say you read, gad shown they are very effective against serious outcomes of covid.

Overall the benefits massively outweigh the risks.

Yep! That's why the miracle of science the AZ vaccine was withdrawn in Australia just as in most countries that have used it.

It was 'safe and effective'

A man died of a blood clot that was a "direct result" of having the AstraZeneca Covid jab, a coroner said.

Jack Last, 27, from Stowmarket, was vaccinated on 30 March 2021 and a week later was admitted to hospital after experiencing headaches and sickness.

Australia switched to MRNA vaccines as they work better , as did the UK.

Not even the hard line vaccine apologists and denialists of reality believe in your interpretations and ideas.

European Countries Suspend Use of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 Vaccine

AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine may cause unusual blood clots with low blood platelets and should be listed as a rare side effect, the European Medicines Agency said.

Since then they have banned the AZ vaccine because of these 'unusual bloods clots' in the brain and the myriads of other serious adverse reactions.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

"Not even the hard line vaccine apologists and denialists of reality believe in your interpretations and ideas."

I am neither of those things, but I don't agree with your spin on this and believe that ScepticScot is simply presenting that which is actually accurate as to the reasons that the AZ vaccine has been largely discontinued in many countries ie because other vaccines had proven to be more effective as things moved on and the very rare but serious adverse reactions.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Asmodeus3

"Not even the hard line vaccine apologists and denialists of reality believe in your interpretations and ideas."

I am neither of those things, but I don't agree with your spin on this and believe that ScepticScot is simply presenting that which is actually accurate as to the reasons that the AZ vaccine has been largely discontinued in many countries ie because other vaccines had proven to be more effective as things moved on and the very rare but serious adverse reactions.

I think you and him can believe whatever you want. The rest of the audience doesn't want to subscribe to vaccine apologetics and denialism of reality.

You seem to propagate the same debunked arguments just as the other member did.

So... the vaccine apologetics, denialism of reality and the defending of the pharmaceuticals.

And no. You are one of them (referring to the beginning of your paragraph)

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Here is the real reason why the vaccine has been withdrawn from almost every country that has used it including the UK where it has produced it.

Safe and effective vaccines are not withdrawn from the market. Only the vaccine apologists and denialists of reality make such claims.

Let's see this again

Covid: Jack Last died as result of AstraZeneca vaccine – coroner

A man died of a blood clot that was a "direct result" of having the AstraZeneca Covid jab, a coroner said.

Jack Last, 27, from Stowmarket, was vaccinated on 30 March 2021 and a week later was admitted to hospital after experiencing headaches and sickness.

a reply to: Asmodeus3


I said this:

"the very rare but serious adverse reactions."

So, there, I agree with you. But, only so far.

Very rare. Like the sad case of Jack Last.

Look, the real reason for the withdrawal of the AZ vaccine has been explained to you.

You dismiss anyone with a viewpoint that differs from yours as being "vaccine apologists and denialists of reality". Hundreds of times, now.

This makes any further attempts at a reasonable discussion pointless.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Asmodeus3


I said this:

"the very rare but serious adverse reactions."

So, there, I agree with you. But, only so far.

Very rare. Like the sad case of Jack Last.

Look, the real reason for the withdrawal of the AZ vaccine has been explained to you.

You dismiss anyone with a viewpoint that differs from yours as being "vaccine apologists and denialists of reality". Hundreds of times, now.

This makes any further attempts at a reasonable discussion pointless.

Safe and effective vaccines are not withdrawn from the market.

You need to be at odds with reason and reality to claim these vaccines were not withdrawn due to health and safety reasons.

The 'rare' incidents are nothing more than unqualified interpretations of journalists and newspapers. The reality of death and debilitating conditions caused by these vaccines is what doesn't serve the narrative. Hence the vaccine apology.

a reply to: Asmodeus3

"European Countries Suspend Use of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 Vaccine

AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine may cause unusual blood clots with low blood platelets and should be listed as a rare side effect, the European Medicines Agency said."

From your own source. "Unusual" and a "rare" side effect".

That is not "Unqualified interpretations of journalists and newspapers."

It's from your own quoted source, the European Medicines Agency.

But, I will leave you to it.