A small rant about pro gun Americans

originally posted by: iamthevirus

originally posted by: ExiledSpirit777
There's a lot of common traits between these school shooters.

This isn't a school shooting, you must be mistaken?

This is a Church massacre perpetrated by a psychopathic Democrat with gender dysphoria.

Son.. how unaware are you?

"On March 27, 2023, a mass shooting occurred at The Covenant School, a private Presbyterian parochial school in the Green Hills neighborhood of Nashville, Tennessee, United States. Six people—three children and three staff members—were killed."

dOnT bEliEvE dA MeDiA iT wAsNt a SkEwL

originally posted by: iamthevirus

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Freeborn
I can't say anything about your opinion and perspective but where it concerns me is a Constitutional rights issue. Not just mine but my family that fought to keep them and my responsibility to see that my lineage keeps them as well.

Not to mention how moot it is to debate the subject for because they are the very reason you have the Constitution.

England is lost...

Man, can't wait for another school shooting with legally purchased guns by a crazed person that we could of avoided! Very cool!

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Of course I take the deaths of those people seriously, what on earth have I said makes you think I don't?
Same as I take the deaths of all those murdered in New York and elsewhere seriously.

Just countering claims made.

Statistically it was an outlier.
Its never been repeated, nowhere near.
Anyone who has even a basic rudimentary understanding of statistical data would recognise and acknowledge that.

I think one person murdered is one person too many regardless of means or motive or location.
Too suggest other is at best misguided and presumptuous and at worst disingenuous.....I hope its the former.

You have to fix the broken toy, the human. What kind of animal thinks shooting/killing kids is okay, or a way to fulfillment/revenge/being heard???

There are TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans with guns that do not act out nor participate in socially unacceptable activities. 10's of 1,000,000's... yet 3-6 bad-apples [out of +360,000,000 Americans] here and there get stupid and act out through egregious events. Logically think about it. Doctors kill more kids a year through incompetence. Cars are the same... blah, blah, blah...

There are basically no statistics on how many lives are SAVED a year through the judicious application of privately deployed firearms, but I'll guarantee it exceeds "child deaths by active shooters."

The answer is a better mental health system, with institutions, well monitored and staffed available to folks who are in need, etc. The money we send abroad would be a VERY good start in rebuilding the USA ground up.

There's never a need to abandon our constitution. There was NO waiting period on 1776, but everyone also knew who was who and didn't suffer fools like we do today.

a reply to: BaconCrusader

There are basically no statistics on how many lives are SAVED a year through the judicious application of privately deployed firearms, but I'll guarantee it exceeds "child deaths by active shooters."

There are. Not precise for obvious reasons but its between 80k and 2.5 million per year of defensive firearm use.

a reply to: Freeborn

"Democrats, Commie bastards, pro-gun control, pro-abortion, pro-Ukraine etc - as soon as anyone expresses any of those sort of opinions they are immediately lambasted and labelled 'part of the problem'. "
One can only understand if they are a TRUE US citizen .

originally posted by: BaconCrusader
You have to fix the broken toy, the human. What kind of animal thinks shooting/killing kids is okay, or a way to fulfillment/revenge/being heard???

There are TENS OF MILLIONS of Americans with guns that do not act out nor participate in socially unacceptable activities. 10's of 1,000,000's... yet 3-6 bad-apples [out of +360,000,000 Americans] here and there get stupid and act out through egregious events. Logically think about it. Doctors kill more kids a year through incompetence. Cars are the same... blah, blah, blah...

There are basically no statistics on how many lives are SAVED a year through the judicious application of privately deployed firearms, but I'll guarantee it exceeds "child deaths by active shooters."

The answer is a better mental health system, with institutions, well monitored and staffed available to folks who are in need, etc. The money we send abroad would be a VERY good start in rebuilding the USA ground up.

There's never a need to abandon our constitution. There was NO waiting period on 1776, but everyone also knew who was who and didn't suffer fools like we do today.

This person who committed this attack was actually seeing help for their mental problems. Still allowed to buy the guns.

Being involved in mental health treatment does not disqualify one from firearm ownership.
Having been committed on the other hand changes things.
Lots of cops and other professionals have PTSD and are in treatment and continue to work..Many military professionals..mental health and care are paramount to keep an operator operating..wether sweeping floors or pulling triggers, doing lifesaving stuff…so try again on yr mental health accusations..all of you

its already been correctly stated that brand of crazy here matters little or none

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

a reply to: Freeborn

Thats a bunch of bull.

I am quite familiar with statistics. And no amount of back pedaling or side baring will change the fact that I made a factually accurate statement that was denounced as false. I proved I was right and now the narrative changes from whether it was correct or not to whether it was an outlier or repeated. Neither of those conditions matter at all and were not germane to the original claim.

I was very forthcoming with information saying it was for one reporting period. I did not imply it was sustained or long term or repetitive. Those are additional constraints added by you after the fact. That is the very definition of a straw man argument. Adding irrelevant points after the fact and attempting to use them to challenge the original claim.

You can feign indignance all day long but it doesn't change the fact that my statement was true and you dismissed it since it wasn't sensational enough to merit your attention. Now you claim one death is one too many when just a few hours ago you said the numbers of victims in London were just statistical outliers. That statement from you was completely without compassion or care for the lives lost. It was just a reflection on insufficient numbers to warrant your attention. That is not presumptuous misguided or disingenuous. It is just observation. You should learn the difference.

originally posted by: ExiledSpirit777
dOnT bEliEvE dA MeDiA iT wAsNt a SkEwL

Now you'e getting it kid... notice how the media uses the Public School imagery though.

You do know the difference?

originally posted by: ExiledSpirit777

originally posted by: iamthevirus

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Freeborn
I can't say anything about your opinion and perspective but where it concerns me is a Constitutional rights issue. Not just mine but my family that fought to keep them and my responsibility to see that my lineage keeps them as well.

Not to mention how moot it is to debate the subject for because they are the very reason you have the Constitution.

England is lost...

Man, can't wait for another school shooting with legally purchased guns by a crazed person that we could of avoided! Very cool!

Does this look like a Public School?

We have separation of church and state in merica, and them Christians use small little private short busses which are white.

Public Schools in America look like prisons and they certainly don't have a church attached to them.

originally posted by: iamthevirus

originally posted by: ExiledSpirit777

originally posted by: iamthevirus

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Freeborn
I can't say anything about your opinion and perspective but where it concerns me is a Constitutional rights issue. Not just mine but my family that fought to keep them and my responsibility to see that my lineage keeps them as well.

Not to mention how moot it is to debate the subject for because they are the very reason you have the Constitution.

England is lost...

Man, can't wait for another school shooting with legally purchased guns by a crazed person that we could of avoided! Very cool!

Does this look like a Public School?

We have separation of church and state in merica, and them Christians use small little private short busses which are white.

Public Schools in America look like prisons and they certainly don't have a church attached to them.

A school is a school regardless of size. You cannot argue against this being a school because 1. you will look foolish in front of everyone although I kind of want you to continue doing that and 2. its literally a school. Not all schools have 3000 kids. Not all schools are public. Again, how unaware are you?

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: ScepticScot

I said the murder rate in London passed New York for one reporting period. I was exactly and precisely correct and I proved it. What part of that confused you? You and some others here are trying to marginalize the fact by pointing out it was just for a short period of time. The victims are just as dead and the families and friends are just as devastated. If you were face to face with the families of the victims would you tell them it was just a 2 month period so don't get upset about it?

The claim made in the other post is correct since it did not express a duration of the event, only that it happened. I was a little more accurate saying it was for one reporting period which ended up being two months. I did not claim it was sustained nor did I claim one is as bad as the other. Though, for those two months, they were very nearly identical with London just ahead of New York. And it was done with knives after guns had been banned. So, what part of that do you dispute?

The claim made by freeborn was that it never happened. I knew it did and I proved it.

The claim made was 'is as bad'. That isn't correct and you tried to support it by using an anomalous short period.

Good manners and ATS T& Cs prevent me from commenting on your ridiculous appeal to emotion.

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

Having attended middle school in a rural town, on one occasion a student brought a gun to class to show and tell. He asked permission first, and the teacher approved with two conditions: It could not be loaded and it had to stay leaned against the teacher's desk except during show and tell. No one was murdered that day. Something else must have changed. Decades of programming people to create artificial categories in which others must be forced, then taught to hate those who are different than them based on traditional ideologies of race, religion, gender, wealth, or newly minted categories such as preferred pronouns. Consciences are seared, anyone deemed an outsider is to be treated as subhuman. That's why segregation is now being re-introduced after so many fought so hard for equality. Those in power cannot permit individuals to respect other individuals, or their game is up.

Governments have always sought a monopoly of force to preserve their own power. If governments really cared about human life, would the US had fought wars in Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan or Somalia or Syria or by proxy Ukraine? Our government is bloodthirsty and so are its followers. The psychosis is contagious, with everyone believing their side's violence is justified because only they are the true believers. The US murder rate is 5 times the murder rate of the UK. Almost no firearms are used in the UK, where most murders are stabbing. Mexico has also banned guns. The murder rate in Mexico is more than 5 times higher than the US. Banning guns in the US isn't going to turn the US into the UK, it will 100% turn us into Mexico where organized crime gangs who retained their guns have all but neutered the government.

Existing gun laws work. And yes, I have lost a family member in a mass shooting. In that instance, the shooter attempted to purchase a gun legally but was denied due to his record. He stole a .22 instead. Banning any type of scary gun wouldn't have prevented my family's tragedy.

In short, I am sick of people who claim they care about human life focusing only on guns and not the pathological narcissism and hate that drives mass shooters. Where is the campaign to address mental health in the US? Where are the media campaigns to bridge our differences and treat other people as more important than yourself? Where is the lesson that murder is the ultimate selfish act of imposing your will over the rights of others?

The second amendment is a barometer of the respect and trust of the individual to do what's right. Those who can't are already prevented by law from owning or obtaining firearms. You don't get to decry police shootings then immediately turn around and say only police should have guns. The existence of government should always be a necessary evil given only enough power to ensure individual rights are safeguarded from those who would use violence to impose their agendas on others. We should all be truly free.

Those who hate the second amendment generally show their true colors eventually since they also hate every one of the other amendments included in the Bill of Rights. Malicious prosecutions, civil asset forfeiture, unlawful search, all of these will fall immediately after the Second Amendment, and America will be even more of a walking corpse than it is already. The only amendment they love is their sacred 16th Amendment, passed with dubious margin in the middle of the night. If you need a government to stop you from murdering your neighbors, you can't be saved anyway.

originally posted by: ExiledSpirit777
Not all schools are public.

I am glad I could help you and that you learned something here today.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Bollocks.

Statistically it is an outlier.
Trying to use an outlier as representative of a data set is inaccurate and bad practice.
Cherry picking such an outlier in order to support a preconceived viewpoint is a clear example of how easy it is to manipulate statistics.

You may feel this is callous or emotionless but the fact is that emotions are irrelevant to statistics.

You have no idea of my personal thoughts on the subject because I have not mentioned them - something I made perfectly clear from the outset.
Thus your comments on them are presumptuous.

This is becoming quite tedious and is a reminder of why I stopped posting in threads like this.

originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
Wasn't the constitution written about 280 years ago? Thereabouts. When the country was like the wild west and North v South etc. When people needed to bear arms.

Those days are well gone. So should that amendment.

May I introduce you to Chicago?

a reply to: Freeborn

Once again, bullsh1t.

The claim that London passed New York in murder rate is true. You cant agree because it challenges your narrative, which is obviously flawed. It happened - period. The fact that it was of short duration does not negate its importance. No matter how brief, the murder rate of a city with practically no firearms actually passed the murder rate of a city full of firearms. That is the important part of this whole concept, something you either cant or wont acknowledge.

The importance of that point is that you don't have to have firearms to commit murder in great numbers. It suggests that the practice of blaming the weapon is flawed and not conducive to finding a solution to the problem. You cant solve a problem you wont even acknowledge. London actually passed New York in per capita murder for two months straight. Its not the duration of the event. No one is arguing that. The important part is that it happened at all. No matter how brief the event it proves that the weapon of choice is not as important as the desire to commit murder. Your inability to understand and embrace that concept tells me much about you.

Labeling it a statistical outlier and trivializing the event as the basis for your argument is pointless since no one argued the fact that it was a short duration event in the first place. That was never germane to the discussion. You continually bring that point back even though it is meaningless. The title of this thread is "A small rant against pro-gun Americans". The concept I am presenting indicates the flaw in the theory of guns and pro-gun Americans being the problem.

This is becoming quite tedious and is a reminder of why I stopped posting in threads like this.

For someone as prolific as you obviously are this is a strange statement to make. And yes, having someone continually bang on about a point that is meaningless for all intents and purposes it indeed tedious. It makes me wonder why you do it...

a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

The only people more dangerous than gun loving kooks are gun hating kooks.

originally posted by: Dutchowl
a reply to: ExiledSpirit777

The only people more dangerous than gun loving kooks are gun hating kooks.

No crime has every been committed without breaking some law. Laws do not stop crimes from being committed.

I am more afraid of those that take away the guns than I am of a million crazy people that own guns.