Ukraine's fate will determaine the west's authority in the world

a reply to: iamthevirus

What did the farmers and factory workers say then? I don't have time to watch your liberal documentaries. If you don't want to have a discussion then don't, it's fully up to you.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

I for one would prefer a world dominated by Russia and China since they are such super awesome places filled with rainbow-farting unicorns and no one ever gets disappeared for free expression in either one of those countries.

In ATS alternative reality people genuinely believe Russia is a democracy, Putin isn't an oligarch and you don't get tortured and raped in prison if you critisize him, write anything that isn't official narrative state approved wordage or attend a protest.

Seems a mix of extreme partisanship, mindless contrarianism and desperation to be a victim or have something to moan about.

a reply to: bastion



How long has Putin been in power now?

24 years or thereabouts by my guess, pretty much unchecked or challenged.

And anyone daft enough to present any sort of challenge jailed or murdered.

If people think that's democracy in action, you have to ponder if it's sawdust between their ears as opposed to the alternative by my guess.

a reply to: andy06shake

what are you trying to say, the USA was a perfectly formed power when it overtook britain..
go ahead and describe the state of the USA or Britain at the same point.. it won't be at all rosy..

being aware of where the west currently is is not a weakness.. ignoring where it is and pretending nothing has changed is the weakness and why the west risks a soviet like fall. its what is motivating putin in 07/08 china said no to taking down the US$ but today they would, in the same way the US pivoted within a decade to threaten to destroy sterling unless the uk toed US policy lines..

07/08 should have been the wakeup call instead we're now looking at an $80 trillion black hole that's the tip of our economic iceberg, a black swan that's been rearing its head every 6-8 weeks and you have to wonder if china is doing to the us secretly what the us threatened to do to the uk..

but it all has a 1922/23 feel to it when liberal globalism imploded and the various parts of the british empire removed the ability of Westminster to make foreign policy decisions on their behalf.. both sides in Washington risk doing the same.. the west came close with the rejection of obamas red lines in syria.

a reply to: nickyw

Basically, im trying to say i know which side my bread is buttered nickyw and its not China side up.

I don't necessarily disagree with some of the points your making.

But I'm inclined to believe that the majority have it better over here than they do, at least for the time being.

By the way, there is not much perfectly formed in any one of our respective nations imho.

originally posted by: iamthevirus
Point to where it hurts...

For me? It doesn't. I can afford a dozen eggs without having to take a payday loan, no trains exploded next to my house and I still like the Constitution.

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: iamthevirus

What did the farmers and factory workers say then? I don't have time to watch your liberal documentaries. If you don't want to have a discussion then don't, it's fully up to you.

"And then it all unraveled Big Time"

Ukraine is lost... everyone gearing up for something else, don't let the narrative pass you by.

originally posted by: bastion
In ATS alternative reality people genuinely believe Russia is a democracy, Putin isn't an oligarch and you don't get tortured and raped in prison if you critisize him, write anything that isn't official narrative state approved wordage or attend a protest.

Seems a mix of extreme partisanship, mindless contrarianism and desperation to be a victim or have something to moan about.

Victimhood is the new norm. If you aren't being repressed by the violence inherent in the system, then your day of wallowing in the filth and mud is incomplete.

a reply to: iamthevirus

What did they say unraveled big time?

I always said and I still say that Ukraine's and Russia's fates depend on us in the West. Currently they are deadlocked, the fronts have moved very little for several months. So I'm favor deploying western fighters under Ukrainian command, manned by Western pilots and operated from airfields in Poland for example. That should tip the balance and also give useful experience for a war with China if that's what you fear.

a reply to: andy06shake

at this point I would opt for china as powers on the rise are far more sensitive to local cultures and customs as they are still in the adopt the best parts of others phase..

where the USA currently is is akin to Victorian britain and will culturally run over anything in their path just as the Victorians did. your country is case in point, your nation dress and history crafted to suit a victorian mindset as was the celts..

instead of that kind of power china has spent covid wooing the global south and that's the real reason the sanctions are not working its a way to undermine the usa.

a reply to: nickyw

The past is the past nickyw, no point in hating people in this day of age or holding them to account for the mistakes of their ancestors.

Each to their own all the same my friend, each to their own.

But Ile take the UK over China any day of the week and twice on Tuesday.

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: iamthevirus

What did they say unraveled big time?

I didn't say it, the guy on sky news said it...

I always said and I still say that Ukraine's and Russia's fates depend on us in the West. Currently they are deadlocked, the fronts have moved very little for several months. So I'm favor deploying western fighters under Ukrainian command, manned by Western pilots and operated from airfields in Poland for example. That should tip the balance and also give useful experience for a war with China if that's what you fear.

In Russia the war is very far away, life goes on in Moscow, farmers are giving their hay rides and the children are playing.

Ukraine 60%+ of the infrastructure is gone, everyone is demoralized and defeated.

The response wasn't swift enough, resources will be shifted and western democracies are already demanding Ukraine sit down at the negotiating table.

originally posted by: nickyw
the west hit the end of the road by not fixing the corruption from 2007/8.. instead it embedded the corruption into its core..

while the west was busy locking down and deindustrialising the Chinese where working hard to overtake the west.. and they are on course to do just that..

Stolen elections have consequences.

I believe the Ukrainian special operations would have not taken place if Trump were President.

All the Democrat globalists meddling in Ukraine under the Obama administration which was so conveniently kept off of the propaganda box had to come to fruition somehow and at any cost, even the true voice of democracy.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: iamthevirus
Point to where it hurts...

For me? It doesn't. I can afford a dozen eggs without having to take a payday loan, no trains exploded next to my house and I still like the Constitution.

I am all for Democracy Vs Communism.

I am not a big fan of Democracy Vs Democracy.

I'm just old fashioned I guess?

originally posted by: iamthevirus
The response wasn't swift enough, resources will be shifted and western democracies are already demanding Ukraine sit down at the negotiating table.

Do you mean some western democracies among the 141 countries that voted in favor of the UN resolution the other day demanding Russia end the war and leave Ukraine?

Or do you mean western democracies like North Korea?

Slightly confused here.

originally posted by: merka

originally posted by: iamthevirus
The response wasn't swift enough, resources will be shifted and western democracies are already demanding Ukraine sit down at the negotiating table.

Do you mean some western democracies among the 141 countries that voted in favor of the UN resolution the other day demanding Russia end the war and leave Ukraine?

Or do you mean western democracies like North Korea?

Slightly confused here.

I could care less about the nuances of their democracies interact, their democracy is specific to that region and I do not pretend to know let alone care how they interact, it is simply none of my business because Ukraine represents no strategic interest to the USA.

They should have worked it out however they worked it out before Soros and the globalists EU entrenched.

originally posted by: iamthevirus

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: iamthevirus

What did they say unraveled big time?

I didn't say it, the guy on sky news said it...

Yes, but I assumed you know what he said?

The response wasn't swift enough, resources will be shifted and western democracies are already demanding Ukraine sit down at the negotiating table.

Well that's novel at least. Usually people I talk to here will complain endlessly that Western democracies will not let Ukraine negotiate. And I've often said Ukraine should negotiate. It's something every leader needs to do as well just to virtue signal. But I don't recommend making peace. At least we can agree that response should have been swifter, in fact years ago.

a reply to: merka

"At the same time, support is growing in several countries for more active peace efforts. In a December poll by the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, Americans were almost evenly divided on the question of whether the United States should support Ukraine for “as long as it takes” or urge Ukraine to settle for peace “as soon as possible.” Forty-eight percent of respondents favored fighting on indefinitely, with 47% preferring peace efforts."

something not paywalled...

Major countries such as India, South Africa and Brazil have not taken clear sides in the conflict, which has raised energy prices and exacerbated a global food crisis.

originally posted by: Cutepants

Yes, but I assumed you know what he said?

Australian Chinese relations, shockingly so that we should begin now to see them turn on the Nationalism down under... it is trending btw.

Well that's novel at least. Usually people I talk to here will complain endlessly that Western democracies will not let Ukraine negotiate. And I've often said Ukraine should negotiate. It's something every leader needs to do as well just to virtue signal. But I don't recommend making peace. At least we can agree that response should have been swifter, in fact years ago.

The involvement since the operation has exceeded a year engagement, it's just another one of those things. It could have been over sure but that brings us back to if it should have happened in the first place.

originally posted by: iamthevirus
I am not a big fan of Democracy Vs Democracy.

Let us know when Russia and/or China are a democracy.

I'm just old fashioned I guess?

No, not old fashioned, just confused.