Roman Catholic church and the Pope are pagan not Christian

I have not read any of her material due to her occult beliefs and practices...

a reply to: infolurker

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
You need to study eastern orthodox Christianity which broke away from the Roman Catholic church...Schism 1054....
What caused the break up? Reread OP....for the reasons mentioned in OP.

You tell me that I need to do something, but for what specifically?...

I'm simply writing for Christians to remember what their teacher told them. The only thing a Christian needs to do is READ THE GOSPELS. All the rest is politics, manufactured history, political agendas, power plays, noise, distractions... which leads you astray from your spiritual path.

Calm your mind and focus.

I’d go out on a limb and posit, to allow you to deepen your understanding and strengthen your reasoned arguments?

a reply to: ltrz2025

One more thing. I'm not going to go deep on this. But what is Babylon?

Babylon, if you check the Greek and Akkadian etymological origins, means: the essence of the material power. Babylon simply means materialism, greed, power on the physical earth, and all its consequences. The realm which is opposite to that which is immaterial and "heavenly".

Every city is Babylon, including the Vatican.
When you work for money you are an anti-christ as well.
But Christianism still gives you ways of salvation, even if you are a cheeky boy/girl.
So no worries, do your thing and do it right.

originally posted by: Dalamax
I’d go out on a limb and posit, to allow you to deepen your understanding and strengthen your reasoned arguments?

a reply to: ltrz2025

Sorry, what? English is not my first language.

To help complete your understanding and make better arguments.

a reply to: ltrz2025

Thanks DeathSlayer. That source has some interesting content and is presented in an easy to consume format.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Dalamax
To help complete your understanding and make better arguments.

a reply to: ltrz2025

o.O ... whatever you say....

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Often here at ATS. former Roman Catholics talk about their leaving the Roman Catholic church and its beliefs and I can understand why.

If you are Roman Catholic, I am not calling you pagan, however you are being taught paganism by the Roman Catholic church.

I know many RMC (Roman Catholic) and some of them appear to seek out and worship God and they look to the Pope and to his church for guidance but are not aware of the danger the Pope and the Roman Catholic church promote and believe.

I believe it is crucial that you listen to the clip below. It is 77 minutes long, basically a church sermon. It will answer all your questions!!

Is 77 minutes worth saving you and your loved ones from hell? You will be surprised, possibly shocked at the information provided.

Revelation 18:4 - 3. All the nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her immorality. The kings of the earth were immoral with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown wealthy from the extravagance of her luxury.” 4. Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins or contract any of her plagues. 5For her sins are piled up to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.…

Spiritual discernment shows the RMC church to be "The Babylon" that Apostle John speaks of in the book of Revelation. (Not the city of Babylon being rebuilt)

While there is a growing schism among the Roman Catholic's with many calling for a return to Tradition the original Catholicism that has been watered down by secularism and now is in danger of becoming entangled into a true false one world religion according to them I have to say as far as the title of the thread is concerned that the statement is probably very wrong.

You know that bible you are reading, that is Catholic (Which means orthodox by the way).

All the non protestant church's are CATHOLIC, Syriac Orthodox the oldest continuous church in the world older than the Church of Rome and the Church of Greece and even older than the Ethiopian orthodox and the Coptic church's, they joined the Roman Catholic Church just a few century's ago now after there own patriarch and bishop's having reviewed the catholic doctrine, traditions and beliefs of the time found they were in full accord with there own but kept here autonomy and traditions including their Aramaic mass intact with the Roman catholic body having no authority to impose the NEWER Latin mass over the superior older mass.

That makes them Catholic.

The Greek Orthodox call themselves Catholic (just not Roman catholic due to a schism that began with an argument about how much authority the bishop of Rome actually had when prior to the papacy all bishops were Equals, this was compounded later by them arguing the nature of Christ and who send's the holy spirit).

The Ethiopian Orthodoxy which remains independent also shared many of the same beliefs and is noted for still holding may texts that were lost in the west.

The Anglican church is arguably lapsed Catholic rather than Protestant though it is more in line with the Orthodoxy on it's argument about the authority of the pope and is recognized by the GREEK orthodox as a Western Orthodoxy of sorts albeit inferior to their own.

The Protestant and it's outgrowth of new denominations are actually NEW religions that CLAIM to be old ones, that claim to be more true to the bible but DENY the established traditions, belief's and anything not in the abridged bible they have as their main text, they were founded by a man whom frankly was off his rocker and died ranting and raving against Rome, cursing the Catholics like a possessed man.


As for the veneration of the virgin Mary, well let's get something straight, she is not to be misidentified with the PAGAN queens of heaven of which their were several false god's by that name, she is not prayed to as a God but is treated as a top saint and is asked to INTERCEDE that is to ASK on the behalf of those that pray to her since it is established that SHE Glorifies God, on his cross Jesus said to his apostle Behold your mother and to his mother Behold your son.

In Jewish tradition based on old Testament history the mother of Solomon was called the Gebirah which roughly translates as the Queen mother, she was the Queen not his wife, he said to his mother ask anything of me even to half my kingdom and I shall give it into your hands, this is the tradition that is reflected and continued in regarding the MOTHER of the KING of Heaven as the QUEEN of the TRUE HEAVEN, the highest intercede between us and the King.

In no way is this Pagan or false though those that attack it are suspect since either they wilfully do NOT understand OR they are part of the devils attack upon the woman who brought forth the man child that saved us.

Even the apparition at Zeitun in Egypt seen by Christians of many denominations and also by Muslims (Pagans) showed the apparition BOWING to the cross and praying toward it, INTERCEDING.

The greater question should be are Catholic's still Catholic's? (most are but there are claims of Anti popes and other claims that may or may not have weight).

The greater measure we all have to keep in mind is how many of us is Jesus going to look at and say "I never knew you get away from me".

How many of us are actually really Christian, probably Ananias and Sapphira were better Christians than many alive today and they were made an example of for the ages though will likely be resurrected and taken home if they have not already since they were still under the blood of Christ despite there wrong in lying to the holy spirit, it was not the fact they kept money aside but that they lied about it and yet they were probably more honest than the bulk of us today.

The Catholics have a tradition were they try to get people to confess, to unburden their souls to a priest who hides his face from there face and listens then just gives what advice he can and tells them to pray and repent.

It is actually a good tradition but no real get out of jail card, how many other denominations at least try to do that for there flock?.

My belief is that there are Christians members of Christs flock in all Christian denominations, sometimes they are led astray but they (hopefully WE) are still his.

If anything many of the Catholic denomination have in the past been too lenient upon their own and too hard upon members of other denominations but that is another debate and we are getting into the territory of wars of fanaticism there but of course very denomination has them, evil shepherds wolves in sheep's clothing and worse, the Borgia for one whom were if the claims are true disgusting anti Christs that will undoubtedly face there just deserts at the Lord's hand if they have not already and today the child abuse scandal something that has apparently gone on for century's in some denominations, if anything is a black stain upon Catholicism that is it and those priests that did not defrock but covered up this anti Christian behaviour even Satanic behaviour in my opinion defrocked themselves.

God will sift them just as he shall all his Church's.

One thing I love about the Orthodox and the Syriac is they simple refer to themselves as CHRISTIANS and seldom if every claim a denomination as if that flag gives them greater right or something.

a reply to: LABTECH767

If anything the traditional Orthodoxy of the Greek AND the Syriac Christians are better examples of what it should be like, many Catholics especially those losing there faith in there church go to the Orthodoxy as well, just depends if God calls them to that.

And to my mind people arguing about who is right, who is wrong are often ALL wrong, it is not about what you know but about Christ, not about GNOSIS that battle for the faith was fought in the early century's of the faith when pagans tried to hijack it but about HIS Sacrifice about his blood about his mercy and about his grace.

We are saved by HIM not by ourselves or any denomination though being part of the church any denomination with fellow believers is to be part of his Kingdom.

I personally feel drawn to the Greek orthodox but have little or no real knowledge about it.

I know one thing though, God's miracles do not discriminate and all Christians have experiences them and his grace.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

Here is a good one from the archives:

www.catholicnewsagency.com...

“(The Church) is like a mother who tenderly holds Jesus and gives him to everyone with joy and generosity…Without the Church, Jesus Christ ends up as an idea, a moral teaching, a feeling,” he said.

Without the Church and her guidance, our relationship with Christ “would be at the mercy of our imagination, our interpretations, our moods,” the Roman Pontiff continued.

It is not possible to understand the salvation offered by Jesus without also appreciating the motherhood of the Church, he explained, adding that it is also impossible to love and belong to Christ without loving and belonging to the Church, because the Church is God’s family who brings Christ to humanity.

Catholic means universal not orthodox.

a reply to: LABTECH767

originally posted by: Dalamax
Like the concept of karma cola? The new age brand for western tastes!

a reply to: RAY1990

I'm borrowing other people's words when I say nothing is original.

Might be good cola with a little spirits!

a reply to: LABTECH767

As for the veneration of the virgin Mary, well let's get something straight, she is not to be misidentified with the PAGAN queens of heaven of which their were several false god's by that name, she is not prayed to as a God but is treated as a top saint and is asked to INTERCEDE that is to ASK on the behalf of those that pray to her since it is established that SHE Glorifies God, on his cross Jesus said to his apostle Behold your mother and to his mother Behold your son.

In Jewish tradition based on old Testament history the mother of Solomon was called the Gebirah which roughly translates as the Queen mother, she was the Queen not his wife, he said to his mother ask anything of me even to half my kingdom and I shall give it into your hands, this is the tradition that is reflected and continued in regarding the MOTHER of the KING of Heaven as the QUEEN of the TRUE HEAVEN, the highest intercede between us and the King.

This is where Catholicism becomes blasphemous. Jesus only told John to take care of his mother Mary because she was a widow. Taking care of widows and orphans was always the standard. When Jesus was asked if he had anything to say to his mother or brothers while He was on the cross, his response made it clear that believers made up his family of mother and brothers. There was NO SPECIAL DESIGNATION given to Mary or any other saint. Jesus kept telling the disciples (in the form of a parable) that none of them would be sitting at his right hand in heaven because it didn't work the way they thought it did. The ONLY MEDIATOR between man and God is JESUS and he tells us so! So, why do Catholics believe that saints have any ability to intercede for anything between man and God? It's not biblical and it's blasphemous.

a reply to: LABTECH767

My belief is that there are Christians members of Christs flock in all Christian denominations, sometimes they are led astray but they (hopefully WE) are still his.

This is what I believe as well. Many of the falsehoods, practices and traditions can be overlooked as long as we love God/Jesus with a pure heart and accept Him as our ONLY Lord and Savior. The ones who misled us in the rest will be judged accordingly.

Yeah it was watered down karma for bored rich western housewives to help them get off prosac. Or something.

en.wikipedia.org...

Mehta observed the spectacle of European and American "pilgrims" interacting with their hosts, and recorded her observations in Karma Cola. It describes the traditions of an ancient and long-lived society being turned into commodities and sold to those who don't understand them.[2]

a reply to: RAY1990

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: LABTECH767

As for the veneration of the virgin Mary, well let's get something straight, she is not to be misidentified with the PAGAN queens of heaven of which their were several false god's by that name, she is not prayed to as a God but is treated as a top saint and is asked to INTERCEDE that is to ASK on the behalf of those that pray to her since it is established that SHE Glorifies God, on his cross Jesus said to his apostle Behold your mother and to his mother Behold your son.

In Jewish tradition based on old Testament history the mother of Solomon was called the Gebirah which roughly translates as the Queen mother, she was the Queen not his wife, he said to his mother ask anything of me even to half my kingdom and I shall give it into your hands, this is the tradition that is reflected and continued in regarding the MOTHER of the KING of Heaven as the QUEEN of the TRUE HEAVEN, the highest intercede between us and the King.

This is where Catholicism becomes blasphemous. Jesus only told John to take care of his mother Mary because she was a widow. Taking care of widows and orphans was always the standard. When Jesus was asked if he had anything to say to his mother or brothers while He was on the cross, his response made it clear that believers made up his family of mother and brothers. There was NO SPECIAL DESIGNATION given to Mary or any other saint. Jesus kept telling the disciples (in the form of a parable) that none of them would be sitting at his right hand in heaven because it didn't work the way they thought it did. The ONLY MEDIATOR between man and God is JESUS and he tells us so! So, why do Catholics believe that saints have any ability to intercede for anything between man and God? It's not biblical and it's blasphemous.

Then show us the early Christian church's that learned from the apostles that did NOT venerate her, you see this assumption is where Lutherans get it wrong.

The woman is even mentioned in the Book of revelation, the dragon makes war with HER and with HER SEED that is the mother and son that is the Virgin Mary whose own conception and birth were miraculous as her parents were well past the age of child baring and also whom was sent specifically to be the mother of the Son for which purpose she was born.

There was no OTHER woman as sinless and no one worthy to bare him into the world but her.

We do not WORSHIP her we ASK her to pray for us and in those prayers glorify the father and the son and the holy spirit repeatedly.

The only thing I think they have wrong but is it really wrong as it is about shaping the mind is repetition as Jesus said he did not want ceremony but true prayers from the heart not mantras, talk to God don't give him a headache with meaningless sound and repetition.

She gives Glory to God far better than you or me, sinless spotless glory and here is something you miss as well she suffered to see her son suffer.

We could debate this forever, Catholics and Orthodox do not claim Mary is God but they do believe she is Queen as she is the mother of God, if that tradition is seen as heretical by YOU then please explain why the Jewish tradition would NOT be followed by the JEWISH KING whom came to take the THRONE OF DAVID as Solomon had done and why he would not stick to the JEWISH tradition of having the MOTHER OF THE KING serve as the Gebirah the Jewish Queen mother second only to her son the King in authority.

Gebirah probably translates more accurately not as Queen but as GREAT LADY but means the same thing.

In Jewish tradition the Kings wife the mother of his children was NOT the queen she was his WIFE but his mother was the one with that authority.
www.agapebiblestudy.com...

HE has the Throne of David for all time and so his mother has the Throne of the GEBIRAH for all time, that makes her in our language the Queen but if you prefer the great lady then go with it.

Also remember once you are part of the body of Christ she is your mother just as he makes your mother his by taking YOUR place on the cross.

He is the King and by default his mother the Gebirah is second in authority to him according to JEWISH tradition within the kingdom the kingdom being his body, his people YOU if you are of that body so that makes her YOUR GREAT LADY, YOUR HEAVENLY MOTHER OR QUEEN MOTHER.

a reply to: LABTECH767

The woman is even mentioned in the Book of revelation, the dragon makes war with HER and with HER SEED that is the mother and son that is the Virgin Mary whose own conception and birth were miraculous as her parents were well past the age of child baring and also whom was sent specifically to be the mother of the Son for which purpose she was born.

The book of Revelation has many symbolic visions in it and the woman DOES NOT represent the virgin Mary. The woman in Revelation represents...


Galatians 4:22-26

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Revelation 12:1

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The twelve stars in her crown represent the 12 tribes of Israel.

In short, while she did give birth to Jesus Christ, the woman as a whole represents the seed and children of God, which was born and came through the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. One day, the seed of God and the seed of Satan will battle each other. After that...


Revelation 21:9-10

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

a reply to: LABTECH767

We could debate this forever, Catholics and Orthodox do not claim Mary is God but they do believe she is Queen as she is the mother of God, if that tradition is seen as heretical by YOU then please explain why the Jewish tradition would NOT be followed by the JEWISH KING whom came to take the THRONE OF DAVID as Solomon had done and why he would not stick to the JEWISH tradition of having the MOTHER OF THE KING serve as the Gebirah the Jewish Queen mother second only to her son the King in authority.

It's the same reason that God bucked Jewish tradition in the Old Testament when it came to the first born son and always gave special acknowledgement to the second born. The Jews were putting too much emphasis on tradition and birth rights as a means of honor and salvation. God/Jesus did not give any special designation to the order of families or the role of mother within the family. As humans, we are all brothers and sisters through and with Christ and that's it. Mary was a human and neither Jesus nor the apostles gave her any special privileges, designations, or showed her any kind of severe reference as high as the Catholic church has placed her. No one is closer to God than anyone else when it comes to humans. The practice of praying to Mary or saints is a total waste of prayer. Take it to Jesus.

a reply to: Deetermined

Look it's one of those debates that will go on and on and on, we both can argue till we are blue in the ears on this point.

But let me tell you something personal, my mother DIED on the operating room table after a midwife left the afterbirth from my sister Jeanette's birth in her and it caused blood poisoning, they were about to give up on my mother but she came back.

Her experience was to find herself on the side of a mountain with many other smaller mountains around it and a beautiful woman whom was larger than life was standing at the top radiant with light and beckoning her to come to her, my mother thought of her children and the abusive man she was at that time married to and knew that her children would not be safe, she had been beaten by him for fighting to keep him away from them when he was drunk if you get my meaning the man was evil.

So my mother turned and RAN down the mountain, through a valley then up another mountain that was smaller and then down into a darker valley below that was full of shadow, as she ran into that shadow she came back to THIS World.

She KNEW that was the mother of God, she KNEW that she had an experience and she knew things.

She also had visions of the sun falling and I told her about the miracle at Fatima in Portugal and she said it was very similar when I showed her the documentary.

My mother was Anglican.

When she came back the doctor and nurses were in shock as they had given up trying to resuscitate her, she said things in that state and they called a CATHOLIC priest, she refused to speak to him saying simply that she was Anglican but had us all baptized Catholic.

I will tell you that you do not know half and assume that because someone interprets it that way they are correct, experience trumps someone's opinion in my humble estimate any day.

My mother only came back to this world to try to protect her children, she gave up paradise having suffered her whole life to suffer even more.

I am not interested in an EVIL God, My God is the one who forgave his persecutors on the Cross, My is the one who gave his most precious son to save You and Me, My God is Good not a slaver, murderer or hater of his son's and his daughter's.

My God took death AWAY and beat it into the ground leaving it in his Tomb when he rose from death having suffered as a man in OUR place.

I believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, I also believe in his Mother/Daughter who had to watch as the Roman's paraded him through the streets with his flesh hanging off from the scourging, who tried to reach her son when he stumbled only to be pushed back and whom washed her son's body with her own tear's when he was lowered into her arm's from the cross before being taken to the tomb.

I do not have time nor patience for this other god that is more like the Islamic Allah than the Jehovah of Yeshua.

In the past IDIOTS on both sides, Anti Christs on both sides of this argument KILLED one another and for What?.

Called one another Heretic, murdered, butchered and committed crimes against humanity.

The Catholic church has blood on it's hands and so too does the Protestant faith, millions died at there hands, millions of CHRISTIANS.

For what, semantics?.

Live and let Live, even the apostles would argue and debate, as long as your faith is in Yeshua that is good enough for me but I have my belief and you have yours let's leave it at that.