Industrial sized Lathe type devices in Ancient Egypt

and what i wondered was what would be strong enough to connect and turn all those tons at any working speed.

I personally think they would have cast a copper square block a few inches thick that connected into the ‘dog drive’ end , with easily enough torque generated from that square shape that connected to a drive system , whether it be a hand crank , or water , possibly the same copper casting for a centre point on the opposite end , or a diorite centre on the right hand side .

Remember , that this column will almost act like it’s own flywheel, it’s own weight and volume helping itself turn once moving .
Again, this would be turned at quite a slow speed due to its circumference . a reply to: sarahvital

a reply to: bluesfreak

If you undertake to make certain objects, you are sort of committed to developing some basic machinery. The Lathe and mill. but everything previous to that can be done with a forge and anvil and file. In fact, you could make just about anything, not fast but I would bet that there were advanced workshops making some interesting stuff in ways we couldn't even guess at. It's like when you start the road to engineering stuff you have to develop a wheel of some kind then you are on a roll. A wooden push bike isn't out of the question, wooden pumps are no problem. What is plastic now was wood, the bits that wear like bearings could have been brass, and brass on brass does not wear. but we will never know.

Totally agree. The more I look at all the varying designs of AE columns , the more I realise how really GOOD these people were at fabricating them. And that’s just the columns !
They were super smart to replicate these designs consistently .
Super smart .

I get a bit fed up with mainstream archaeology talking like the AE ‘just’ did this , or ‘just ‘ did that , they ‘just ‘ carved a,b,or c .
No.
To make ONE of these columns is an incredible achievement , and there’s no ‘just’ about it-
This is highly technically thought out design work, efficiently and confidently reproduced on an industrial scale.

a reply to: anonentity

a reply to: CthruU

That makes an awful lot of sense, would also explain the missing workshop and tools, all washed away.

Did egyptologist ever searched the sedimentary beds of the nile?

a reply to: Terpene

Did egyptologist ever searched the sedimentary beds of the nile?

Wrong way. The search should be done to the West, sighting the evidence of a massive flood all the way through Mauritania to a giant land deposit in the Atlantic ocean.

It seems obvious that some giant lathe machinery was used, perhaps mounted in water. The scored columns show evidence that this was the way they were machined. We will probably never find any of the original tooling due to the apocalypse that scoured the Northern part of Africa, in most places down to bedrock and then covered it with rock and sand. If this did not happen, then we would certainly find some of the tool evidence that would also reveal how the pyramids were built, as well.

Harbor Freight has some decent stuff once in a while. Their mini metal lathes are pretty neat. a reply to: jerryznv

There is some underwater archeology in the Nile going on near Abydos and also at Aswan. Here in this video they have brought up some granite grinding wheels that they say were probably discarded or from a wrecked boat.... interesting links:

Aswan submerged granite grinding wheels

Possibly, tools like the suspected Lathe(s) could be underwater !!!

It would make sense that Lathe mounts would be in water, and most likely close to where the columns would be installed, like in Abydos and Aswan. I am going to see if I can find more links to video like this.

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: Terpene

Did egyptologist ever searched the sedimentary beds of the nile?

Wrong way. The search should be done to the West, sighting the evidence of a massive flood all the way through Mauritania to a giant land deposit in the Atlantic ocean.

As noted in another thread this didn't actually happen. 'Jimmy' made up stuff

It seems obvious that some giant lathe machinery was used, perhaps mounted in water. The scored columns show evidence that this was the way they were machined. We will probably never find any of the original tooling due to the apocalypse that scoured the Northern part of Africa, in most places down to bedrock and then covered it with rock and sand. If this did not happen, then we would certainly find some of the tool evidence that would also reveal how the pyramids were built, as well.

So how did the Roman's make tapered single piece granite columns adjusted for entasis in the 1st century AD? They don't seem to have used a giant lathe so how did they and the earlier Greeks do it?

originally posted by: charlyv
There is some underwater archeology in the Nile going on near Abydos and also at Aswan. Here in this video they have brought up some granite grinding wheels that they say were probably discarded or from a wrecked boat.... interesting links:

Aswan submerged granite grinding wheels

Good link, thanks

originally posted by: bluesfreak
Totally agree. The more I look at all the varying designs of AE columns , the more I realise how really GOOD these people were at fabricating them. And that’s just the columns !
They were super smart to replicate these designs consistently .
Super smart .

I get a bit fed up with mainstream archaeology talking like the AE ‘just’ did this , or ‘just ‘ did that , they ‘just ‘ carved a,b,or c .
No.
To make ONE of these columns is an incredible achievement , and there’s no ‘just’ about it-
This is highly technically thought out design work, efficiently and confidently reproduced on an industrial scale.

a reply to: anonentity

What word would you like? How about the Greeks and Romans who also made columns? "industrial scale"? How many obelisks did they make over 3,000 years?

Answer

31 that are known not counting those abandoned in quarries. So one a century.... I have no way to guess how many columns they made? Any ideas? The Roman's had an industry of making columns out of Egyptian granite and shipping them around the Empire not sure how many of those they made or stole from Egypt.

a reply to: Hanslune

These are the ones that have been found, how many are under the sand, quarried, and repurposed? Just making one column, requires a skilled industrial infrastructure to back it up. That sort of complexity does not pop up overnight.Plus if hard granite can be cut and polished to such a fine degree, then there must have been spinoffs with regard to other areas of industry.

a reply to: bluesfreak

I'm no machinist, so I'm having difficulty figuring out how you lathe a square hole.

a reply to: Schmoe11

Many ways,

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Hanslune

These are the ones that have been found, how many are under the sand, quarried, and repurposed? Just making one column, requires a skilled industrial infrastructure to back it up. That sort of complexity does not pop up overnight.Plus if hard granite can be cut and polished to such a fine degree, then there must have been spinoffs with regard to other areas of industry.

Such as? We have a fair idea of where the Roman's industrialized, they made water and man/animal-powered mills, and stone saws. They make no mention of huge granite lathes however. Quarry work and making of large columns would have been quite an endeavors but probably using standard masonry techniques.

en.wikipedia.org... patentpending.blogs.com...

Interesting paper on stone columns

dergipark.org.tr...

i.imgur.com...

Paper on quarries of the Eastern Med. with a few left over columns...

www.eeescience.utoledo.edu...

www.alamy.com... BC32F059&p=27227&pn=1&searchId=02a48d33b67413ba8d68aaf77b627ed9&searchtype=0

www.alamy.com... F5B8A1D9&p=27227&pn=1&searchId=02a48d33b67413ba8d68aaf77b627ed9&searchtype=0

originally posted by: bluesfreak

This guy figured it all out!

That’s exactly the type of thinking and mindset that I believe the AE would have used.
Logical, efficient.
Smart guy. A problem solver, just like the Ancient Egyptians.
Bloody awesome!! a reply to: Wide-Eyes

That guy on YT only made the pillar stand up.
How is he gonna put up a mega ton weighing structure to connect the bridge?

a reply to: Hanslune

They made the columns in sections and assembled them on-site. It looks like they couldn't move the weights that their predecessors could.

What word would you like? How about the Greeks and Romans who also made columns? "industrial scale"? How many obelisks did they make over 3,000 years?

I know a word - “ distraction”. Seeing as we aren’t talking about obelisks or the Romans.
But the Romans certainly stole Egyptian granite pillars, took them back to Rome and added them into their architecture didn’t they?
Why?
If they were so great at doing it, why did they revere these enough to transport them back to Rome to help add to their own image of grandeur ?
How do you KNOW they didn’t turn things? I mean how do YOU actually KNOW? (!!)
Do most people know how the Rolling Pin for baking that sits in their kitchen was made? I do.

An obelisk isn’t turned so not really what we are talking about is it?

Do you actually believe these objects are shaped by ‘rubbing’ them externally into shape??!!

Also , if you don’t think that all the columns we see in AE is not “industrial scale “ you obviously don’t really understand manufacture and repeatable fabrication on a large scale .
The AE had several design templates for their columns (the Romans and Greeks didn’t) ranging from this Palm Frond design to some seriously complicated -and repeated designs.
All show hallmarks of turning , and division of some complexity .

And btw, TAPERING (which you refer to the Romans employing ) is a classic Lathe ‘manouver’ if you will, and is only accurately achieved using a lathe with the tool guide set at an angle to achieve tapered parallelism .

There’s a book called “ The Amateurs Lathe” , you can prob find a PDF of it online .
I suggest you have a read up on what Lathes ‘do’ before wading into deep waters here…

a reply to: Hanslune

I'm no machinist, so I'm having difficulty figuring out how you lathe a square hole.

Hi Schmoe, this I believe would be cut by hand first , to a template that matched the size of the ‘dog’ drive end.


a reply to: Schmoe11

That guy on YT only made the pillar stand up. How is he gonna put up a mega ton weighing structure to connect the bridge?

I don’t know as I haven’t seen how he proposed to achieve this.
How did the Ancient Egyptians lift multi tonne roof supports that sat atop these columns once they were in place?
I don’t know, but they plainly did !

a reply to: Dumbdowned