Yoohoo...

a reply to: 19Bones79

Part of the riddle.

Ok so you believe God is an individual?

Clearly the bible is not truth.

What do you mean by damnation?

At the very least, anybody who can read the bible, and has the intent of understanding, should be able to discern it is not truth.

What insurance policy?

Accepting what is not understood sounds like ignorance to me.

I put my keys in the same spots every time, so I never lose them...

a reply to: InachMarbank

No I don't believe in a God.

Damnation meaning sentenced to hell.

At the very least, anybody who can read the bible, and has the intent of understanding, should be able to discern it is not truth.

Clearly not.


The insurance policy believe just in case hell is real.

originally posted by: 19Bones79

Clearly not.

The insurance policy believe just in case hell is real.

Good grief, Bones. You are coming (have come) to the conclusion/faith that the only thing that explains your existence is that you're a cognizant hologram who is being criminally manipulated & enslaved by some kind of preternatural ancient Alien entity/entities who have empowered the Jews to do their dirty work. I hope that made us both chuckle. Affectionately of course.

So maybe a mirror or some humility might be in order. There have been intellects much greater than you or I on both sides of this issue, eh?

I do find it interesting that it's not the faith folk here who are coming across overly zealousl--as you proffered earlier--but, um, yourself. I'm starting to suspect some unresolved turmoil, mate. I find it encouraging because I've not only been there, I understand what it can mean.

Not to say the insurance policy point isn't valid because it is. It leads to some interesting discussion both pro & con. I hope this conversation remains welcoming and openminded. I mean I can argue some of your points better than you have so far. I realize I could be wrong in my current convictions and I love to discuss alternate theories with those likeminded in that sense.

a reply to: 19Bones79

believing in God is a no brainer really... i think anything is possible, however i dont entertain the idea there is no God because one of my possibilities is that we live self fulfilling prophecies based on belief, so if you die and you believe that it is a void of nothingness then thats what you get, however it doesnt matter what happens either to convince you one way or another, because it is also possible that existence is a game you are playing called the human experience, and you are infact a weird looking alien (to the human avatar you created) playing a game to relax with your alien friends that takes like 20 mins in your alien version of time. another is that nobody can die till they are old, so all the people that you see die young are only dead in your personal universe, but really live on in another version of reality, theyr own personal Universe, i could go on tbh, and i think it is healthy to have unlimited possibilities... and to continue to think of different ideas of creation, the main one just now is like a holographic, or electric universe... but before these ideologies when the Sun and moon was a mystery and even animals, that is where our beliefs lay, God is mind although is probably most likely for me at this stage, but i also think we may reincarnate many times till we have passed all tests life has to offer before we move on to a new level of the mind of God, each time growing in conscious awareness to the omniscience of the One, if i were God and knew everything i would divide partitions of myself off to be ignorant so i could experience the one thing i am not, which is ignorance.... like i said many options, but the one that there is no God is actually the one that requires the least amount of thought, so maybe thats their agenda

and another thing these fake Jews are spoken of in the bible which i now know to be a book that is heavily veiled and has within it great secrets, One definite agenda of the elites is for them to make the masses to believe there is no God, i know for a fact that is one of the agendas at play, not sure why though, because many God fearing people have a belief system that keeps their morals in check, so would be less likely to hurt persons they would see as being a threat to them, like Elites.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Well do you believe in THE God? Since you said you don't believe in A God, I thought a clarifying question was in order...

When one's understanding is challenged, say by a snarky question, oh do you believe snakes can talk to humans? that is when an interrogator can discern how sincere somebody's intent to understand really is.

a reply to: The GUT

Good grief, Bones. You are coming (have come) to the conclusion/faith that the only thing that explains your existence is that you're a cognizant hologram who is being criminally manipulated & enslaved by some kind of preternatural ancient Alien entity/entities who have empowered the Jews to do their dirty work. I hope that made us both chuckle. Affectionately of course.

All I need to know now is what to write on any document asking me my preferred religion.

I need a one word summary that will capture the essence in a tasteful and succinct manner.

So maybe a mirror or some humility might be in order. There have been intellects much greater than you or I on both sides of this issue, eh?

I'll have you know that even though Fauci is vastly more qualified than me, medically speaking, I still maintain that even a chimp like me operating yes/no buttons would've done a better job of handling the covid response.


I don't subscribe to argument from authority.

I do find it interesting that it's not the faith folk here who are coming across overly zealousl--as you proffered earlier--but, um, yourself. I'm starting to suspect some unresolved turmoil, mate. I find it encouraging because I've not only been there, I understand what it can mean.

I'm passionately curious about life.

Call me Curious George.

I mean I can argue some of your points better than you have so far.

Please go ahead. I remain open to learning and eager to understand.

a reply to: Adept18

believing in God is a no brainer really...

Behave, Bones.

That's not what he meant.

so if you die and you believe that it is a void of nothingness then thats what you get

What if I believe it's a field of marshmallows where we play a neverending game of rugby high on shrooms without any clothes on against a team of 300lb gorillas that are only allowed to hop on one leg?

but the one that there is no God is actually the one that requires the least amount of thought, so maybe thats their agenda

I would've thought that believing there is a God and that everything will be okay if we just subscribe to the idea requires the least amount of input.

But hey, that's just me.

and another thing these fake Jews are spoken of in the bible which i now know to be a book that is heavily veiled and has within it great secrets,

Careful now, you don't want to risk insulting your God's favorite group of people on earth.

They're special.

because many God fearing people have a belief system that keeps their morals in check

That's what scares me about believers. It sounds like the only thing standing between you and an attack dog is the fact that he's chained.


That's not a very enlightened place to be coming from, mate.


I have do do all that by taking responsibility for myself.

a reply to: InachMarbank

THE God?


Which one would that be? There are 1000s throughout history you're going to have to narrow it down.

a reply to: 19Bones79

I don't subscribe to argument from authority.

What about argument from logic?

If you are truly "open to learning", I recommend an amazing biography that outlines the process by which an intelligent, highly educated, atheist college professor (using techniques for logical thinking instilled in him by the atheist educator who tutored him as a youth) -

- eventually came to the point of realizing that (logically) he could no longer deny the existence of God.

(Don't be fooled by the 'sappy' sounding title - it is not at all a 'religious' book)

"Surprised By Joy", C.S.Lewis
(the word "joy" here is merely a 'placeholder' for a German word which doesn't really translate, 'sehnsucht')

It is an incredibly intellectual work - I was astonished by the sheer amount of learning required for a boy to have any hope of entering university in early 1900's England! People in this day and age have no idea what was once meant by the phrase, 'Classical Education'.

It's quite an enjoyable read, giving one a glimpse into pre-World War Britain.

a reply to: lostgirl

What about argument from logic?

I have already addressed this in a previous reply to you.

So if everything has a beginning, then through the same logic so does God. Who created the Creator? If not, then God is illogical.

This is the 2nd time you've given me a reading assignment. Perhaps you'd like to explain your understanding of the profoundness captured in the book to me in your own words?

If you don't mind.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Here's the thing - I am not trying to 'convert' you, nor am I capable of composing 'written out, piecemeal' arguments debating the logic 'or' illogic of Faith (though C.S. Lewis could absolutely have run circles around you!)

But - I have done more research, reading, and thinking about the question of God's existence than you can possibly imagine and, like The GUT, I can tell you that (comparatively) your 'arguments' against God reflect a lack of genuine study into the matter....

I have not ever "given you a reading assignment", I have simply taken you at your word that you are:

open to learning and eager to understand

and recommended excellent, enjoyable sources of such for your perusal.


And this is the 2nd time that you have asked me to "explain [my] understanding" of materials which had been quite clearly expounded upon -

- and which, having been sincerely offered (in response to 'your' stated desire to learn) as sources of growth in your own understanding, really ought to have been read and reflected upon thoroughly enough to eliminate any need for explanation on my part!


It seems to me that you are much more interested in denying all possibility of any potential existence of any concept of reality involving any form of divinity whatsoever...
...than in genuinely making any efforts toward learning anything that might increase your understanding, or lead to the sort of personal growth which might accidentally cause a shift in your 'anti-God' paradigm.

a reply to: lostgirl

So clear & hard to argue with. If anyone were to--after that and without some sort of clear logic--then the question of whether we're dealing with a scholar and a gentleman will be answered.

a reply to: lostgirl


Just about all your classics are occult, or veiled bible stories that themselves are veiled

Lewis even admitted the Lion was about Christ and the Lion of Judah

which represents the Sun, the solar Plexus, the seed and its movement around the body

including through the chakras and up to the crown to be made king, illumination

Is Narnia based on the Bible?
“The whole Narnian story is about Christ,” Lewis once wrote. He said he “pictured him becoming a lion” because it's the king of beasts and because Christ is called “The Lion of Judah” in the Bible.8 Dec 2010

New "Narnia" film stirs religious controversy | Reuterswww.reuters.com...

a reply to: lostgirl

Here's the thing - I am not trying to 'convert' you, nor am I capable of composing 'written out, piecemeal' arguments debating the logic 'or' illogic of Faith (though C.S. Lewis could absolutely have run circles around you!)

You misunderstood.

I never said faith is illogical. I said the concept of God is illogical and I outlined why very specifically go back to my reply and see.

Faith, to me, is logical in that it is the preferred choice most people would take(the wide road).

The construct is successful because it is setup so most people will gravitate towards it. It also prevents people from taking real action because 'it is in God's hands' and because they wrote about the 'end times' if they destroy this cycle of humanity people will be impressed that their book 'predicted' just such a thing while they think it is wisdom and not worry about it too much because there is another, better world in the afterlife where everything will be just fine.

Having faith is logical to me in the sense that people are mentally lazy and this is their source of comfort, a magic bullet if you will, when all else fails.

And that is why imagination is touted by the people who impress you so much.

I will admit, C. S. Lewis writes beautifully in a way that speaks to yearning.

But - I have done more research, reading, and thinking about the question of God's existence than you can possibly imagine and, like The GUT, I can tell you that (comparatively) your 'arguments' against God reflect a lack of genuine study into the matter....

If you say so, Lostgirl.

I have not ever "given you a reading assignment", I have simply taken you at your word that you are:

If the content of the literature you provided has touched you so deeply, by reliving your experience and understanding of it might have interested me more and tempted me to dip my toes.

Einstein said: If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

really ought to have been read and reflected upon thoroughly enough to eliminate any need for explanation on my part!

If you're really into something that you're passionate about sharing with someone, explanations come naturally, wouldn't you agree?

People are always eager to show their take on something that impressed them, no?

It seems to me that you are much more interested in denying all possibility of any potential existence of any concept of reality involving any form of divinity whatsoever...

It only seems that way, Lostgirl...


And for the record, I am not anti-god.

I would love for it to be real, but it's just wishful yearning for what honestly amounts to a crude caricature, and puts humanity in the precarious position of not taking responsibility and realizing they have the power to fix this world instead of letting TPTB use and abuse it, and us, as they see fit.


But if it makes you feel good and deep down it doesn't conflict with your intuition then who am I to tell you otherwise?


I do understand that most people would be lost without it.

a reply to: The GUT

Haven't you been whiteknighting enough for one thread with your side swipes in my direction?


Poor form, GUT.


You don't have to ingratiate yourself at the expense of an honest conversation.



I expected more from you, sadly.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Woah. I thought you started being rude and side-stepping your proffer of a real discussion. But if it's me I'll own it. I'll be back to elaborate & elucidate on that---got stuffs in my way right now.

I bet we'll have a great and wide-ranging conversation yet.

a reply to: 19Bones79

You misunderstood.

I never said faith is illogical. I said the concept of God is illogical and I outlined why very specifically go back to my reply and see.

You are more than smart enough to have understood, from the context of our previous posts, that my use of the term "Faith" (capital 'F') was 'shorthand' for "the concept of God"!!!

Faith, to me, is logical in that it is the preferred choice most people would take(the wide road).

As well, I clearly gave enough info about the C.S. Lewis autobiography for you to be aware that the book itself offers an education in logic, which utterly refutes your statement above...to repeat:

" I recommend an amazing biography that outlines the process by which an intelligent, highly educated, atheist college professor (using techniques for logical thinking instilled in him by the atheist educator who tutored him as a youth) -

- eventually came to the point of realizing that (logically) he could no longer deny the existence of God."

C.S. Lewis started out as an avowed atheist - he wanted no part of Faith - it was in no way his "preferred choice" and if you had bothered to think about the above info the first time I wrote it, you'd have realized how ridiculous your comment below sounds in response!

The construct is successful because it is setup so most people will gravitate towards it. It also prevents people from taking real action because 'it is in God's hands' and because they wrote about the 'end times' if they destroy this cycle of humanity people will be impressed that their book 'predicted' just such a thing while they think it is wisdom and not worry about it too much because there is another, better world in the afterlife where everything will be just fine.

Having faith is logical to me in the sense that people are mentally lazy and this is their source of comfort, a magic bullet if you will, when all else fails.

Right, so according to you, C.S. Lewis became a Christian despite all his convictions against Faith, because he was "mentally lazy"...

And that is why imagination is touted by the people who impress you so much.

I will admit, C. S. Lewis writes beautifully in a way that speaks to yearning.

So, you googled the German word, "sehnsucht", and then accepted the very first result ("yearning" is not a fully accurate translation) for use in your big 'take down' of C.S. Lewis - wow, way to exercise the old intellect!!

Do you read Latin, Greek, Old English, Old German, and Old Norse? Have you written entire books on ancient authors and their works? Have you ever received scholarly accolades for your intellectual achievements?

Because those are the things which "impress" me "so much" about C.S. Lewis (and J.R.R. Tolkien)....

....though, I admit, the imaginary worlds they created are very enjoyable.

BTW - Have you ever created an entire imaginary world, including it's geography, and the languages which the people within that world speak, and written a series of widely acclaimed novels detailing generations of character's lives in the stories of those worlds?

Because, surely (?) nothing like the above could possibly be achieved by anyone so "mentally lazy" (to quote you), as a person of who believes in God and has an appreciation for imagination?


Sorry - clearly I've been wasting my time here...I thought I was conversing with someone who understood the value of attaining new knowledge in pursuit of intellectual growth.

For the record:
You don't know anything at all about actual 'Faith'...it doesn't in the least "feel good", the truest kind of 'Faith' is a rough journey up a steep road, but I go where the evidence (and the thinking of superior minds) leads...

No literature in the world is going to make be believe in God.

Why would anyone even think it would?

I once took a course in comparative religion, taught by a cleric. One of the most profound things he said was "faith without devotion is just didactic masturbation." It was lost on me at the time because I didn't know what didactic meant. I do now!

Thought provoking thread!!

a reply to: Annee

What a stunningly perspicacious observation!

My goodness, why would anyone think that a work of "literature" had been the topic under discussion?