Putin says Russia wants end to war in Ukraine

a reply to: Creep Thumper

As a citizen, I'm not interested in paying to fight Ukraine's war. They've gotten over $68 billion now, with another $30+ billion on the way. Plus they've gotten God knows how many weapons.

It's time to withdraw the tit.

You started the mess in the first place with your fomented coup in Ukraine. Ukraine's war is your war, own it and pay for it. Shifting 'weapons is the American way. You need enemies so there can never be peace. There's no money in peace.

a reply to: Creep Thumper

We have always stood on our own two feet here in the UK and paid our own way.

Through two world wars for instance where your own nation was late to the party on both occasions for a start.

But at the end of the day it was a team effort hence we are allies.

We have also repaid any lend-lease assistance remaining debt the USA provided around the year 2006.

But please feel free to continue with your simplistic short-sighted assessment of the situation in Europe and Ukraine major general Creep Thumper.

What America should do, and what you are sick of.

As you obviously have the ""real"" gist of what's transpiring down to a tee. LoL

Wee hint, but security, just like your beloved notion of what constitutes freedom, are illusory notions at best.

Everything has its price, and there is always a cost to be had, especially where war is concerned, which we will always have money for, more is the pity really.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: putnam6

If nothing else I'm am impressed with our intelligence community so far they have seemed to be pretty spot on

Have they? At the start of the war our intelligence said Kyiv would fall in a matter of weeks. That's a pretty serious intel blunder.

Then the narrative shifted to that didn't happen because Russia's military was so inept.

And we didn't know that? Our estimates of their effectiveness were that far off? That's an even bigger intel blunder.

Either way it looks like our intel community screwed the pooch on this one. Maybe they should stop being so focused on domestic politics and do their #ing job.

No intelligence is 100%

yea you are probably correct...

news.usni.org...

The director of the Defense Intelligence Agency described the sharing of information and intelligence between the United States and the Ukrainians as “revolutionary in terms of what we can do” at a Thursday congressional hearing.

Army Lt. Gen. Scott Berrier told the House Armed Services subcommittee on intelligence that he could go into greater detail on how this is being done in a closed session.

Army Gen. Paul Nakasone, who heads both Cyber Command and the National Security Agency, said that “in my 35 years” he has never seen a better sharing of accurate, timely and actionable intelligence than what has transpired with Ukraine.

The value of sharing information and intelligence with allies is that it “builds coalitions” and can “shine a light on disinformation” campaigns like the one Russia used to lay the groundwork for their invasion, Nakasone added. The question came down to “how do we share information that is relevant … and usable by the Ukrainians” in the conflict.

warontherocks.com...

americandefensenews.com...

www.nytimes.com...

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: putnam6


Why you believe anything Putin says?

Should be clear by now that words from known liar dont count . They are pathological liars, it has been modus operandi to lie .

That was March 27th it's now Dec 23rd (Merry Christmas btw) a lot can change in 9 months. Still, if someone wants to negotiate set it up and go, call his bluff, If he isn't sincere it will be obvious soon enough. Even if you walk out immediately upon arriving it still sends a message.

Besides if the goal is to turn up the heat on Putin in Russia, the best way to accomplish that is to set up negotiations and when they fail because of Putin's nonsense then perhaps internal pressure could force his hand.

The west holds the high ground they don't have to give up anything but just listen.

Do I think he wants to negotiate? no, and that's why you call him out on it. He will have to state his terms again publically and considering how it's going it's obvious he has no leverage

Through two world wars for instance where your own nation was late to the party on both occasions for a start.

Not the only time, and a major problem all of us certain types have always been displeased with..Its good that You can let go of that and use the word ally..I wish more Cuban Nationals thought the way You do, plenty do, just sayin, can always use help

a reply to: LouisCypher

originally posted by: LouisCypher
a reply to: putnam6

i have a question. putin said he wants to end the war but this is a special military operation. will he now be put in prison for spreading false propaganda?

He said in one of his last speeches that it's a war and the frontline gonna get everything they need , whatever that may be nukes maybe ? more weapons + soldiers thats for sure, we shall see time will tell what really gonna happen

3 things Russia wanted before the SMO/War started

#1 a neutral Ukraine
#2 LPR/DPR (Donbass reconized as republics)
#3 Crimea part of the Russian federations

Putin/Kremlin and Russia won't pull out of Ukraine just like that , and Zelensky + crew wants Crimea and Donbass.
So i doubt there gonna be any negotiations between the two

as previously mentioned, this is the only way he has a hope of keeping the land he claimed, cause right now he is in danger of losing most to all of it including the breakaway portions.

ETA: before anyone goes Bruh... for 8 years ukraine couldnt do anything...

Equipment change, on top of 8 years training by some of the best warriors from the west, then being turned lose by their commanders to wage war as they see fit on the ground since russia broke the rules outright.

originally posted by: Dizle81
He said in one of his last speeches that it's a war and the frontline gonna get everything they need , whatever that may be nukes maybe ? more weapons + soldiers thats for sure, we shall see time will tell what really gonna happen

they need a much better military since they havent accomplished any of their goals since february...

a reply to: Dizle81

I dont know about getting what they need.

My guess is the frontline troops will receive plenty of frostbite and hypothermia in spades.

If the piss-poor equipment Russian forces field and inadequate supply lines are anything to go by.

I would not wish to die in the snow for Putin's failed wet dream aka failed invasion that's for sure.

a reply to: LouisCypher

They still have Crimea as part of Russia.
and he got a "neutral" Ukraine ,they aint gonna join EU/NATO any time soon thats for sure.
So 2 of the 3 things Putin wanted before the SMO/War started he got done.

Only thing he needs is the rest of the Donbass and after that he got the things he needed done.

a reply to: Dizle81

crimea was already stolen prior to this invasion and now ukraine has applied for EU membership and is being told they can join nato once the war is over so putin got the opposite of what he wanted because ukraine is far from neutral...

a reply to: andy06shake

At the moment the weather is cold in Ukraine,but i doubt they are walking bare feet with no clothes on in the snow.
Don't think it's cold enough that they get frostbite , they can get hypothermia but thats for both sides not just the Russians.

So far i still see alot of Russian equipment getting shipped to the fronlines or near ,it's not the best of the best for every one thats true ,but it works and both sides are using old equipment .
Ukraine doesn't have 300km range missles yet either to really hit the supply lines from Russia as far as i know ,so i don't know where you get information that Russia's supply lines are inadequate ?

They were a few months ago that's true when they had to defend alot more ground,with less people.
Thats why they eventually pulled back and got beaten to the defence lines they are now.

You would not die , and i would not die either in the snow for Putin.
And the war wasn't what Putin expected that's for sure,should have been done months ago .

But you forget that alot of Russians lost family in the past because of wars against western countries and it goes back centuries,and they will fight for the fathers/grandfathers and great grandfathers.

The patriotism is big in Russia and propaganda is a hell of a drug (same in all of countries around the world btw)
We got our stories on how we wrote the history ,but they got their own stories how history was written .
“History is Written by Victors.” that's what they say .
and time will tell who is gonna be the victors of this war ,i doubt anyone knows how this really gonna end to be honest.

Everyone who has it in their heads that Russia is about to crack needs to look at the hardships they endured in WW2, there's nothing even close to that level of suffering or casualties for Russia right now, this is going to go on a long time.

originally posted by: LouisCypher
a reply to: Dizle81

crimea was already stolen prior to this invasion and now ukraine has applied for EU membership and is being told they can join nato once the war is over so putin got the opposite of what he wanted because ukraine is far from neutral...

Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

I try to discern who really knows what they're talking about and who doesn't

originally posted by: storyshooter
Everyone who has it in their heads that Russia is about to crack needs to look at the hardships they endured in WW2, there's nothing even close to that level of suffering or casualties for Russia right now, this is going to go on a long time.

What about WW1 though?

Weren’t they one of the first countries to succumb and give up land?

a reply to: storyshooter

The red army was at peak in 12.5 million men , Stalin had a lot men to throw battle .

It`s really different ball game now, with bad moral , no motivation , not enough men , lack of munitions etc.

originally posted by: Annee
Thank you for your contribution to this thread.

I try to discern who really knows what they're talking about and who doesn't

i was born in ukraine in zhytomyr oblast when the soviet union existed. my family emigrated to the usa in 1987 but we still have family and friends in ukraine...

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: storyshooter
Everyone who has it in their heads that Russia is about to crack needs to look at the hardships they endured in WW2, there's nothing even close to that level of suffering or casualties for Russia right now, this is going to go on a long time.

What about WW1 though?

Weren’t they one of the first countries to succumb and give up land?

They lasted until March 3rd 1918 which isn't much shorter than Germany herself lasted.

originally posted by: Kenzo
a reply to: storyshooter

The red army was at peak in 12.5 million men , Stalin had a lot men to throw battle .

It`s really different ball game now, with bad moral , no motivation , not enough men , lack of munitions etc.

All those things clearly existed for the Soviets in the first two years of WW2 and they haven't really begun a mass mobilization yet.