US scientists reach long-awaited nuclear fusion breakthrough, source says

originally posted by: network dude
I hate to be the wet blanket, but I have been told by self proclaimed experts for 40 years that this wasn't possible. Just like Hydrogen can't be used to fuel cars. A peek back in ATS history reveals some interesting conversations, debunking things like this.

I've read where somebody was told that man can't fly. Now that that's settled, we won't have to worry about futuristic things like airplanes falling out of the sky on our heads. Shew, what a relief.

a reply to: quintessentone


Huh?

originally posted by: PiratesCut
a reply to: quintessentone


Huh?

Go back and read Boomer and my posts.

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

science isn't an instant thing, would you rather there be no progress? people are so depressing sometimes, always trying to find the negative in everything.

and what are you talking about anyway, im pretty sure net gain is a step past ignition, previous power generated was 1.35 mj with the laser using 1.9 mj when ignition happened before, so i assume they went past 1.9 mj being produced at ignition instead of 1.35 mj, not enough to reach the goal of high energy gain ignition but a gain nonetheless.

well how nice, right after the nuke waste thief

sammy fingers was fired for
stealing luggage at airports.

a reply to: namehere

Missed my fusion thread? I would not call any of that effort “negative” in anyway.

Net energy and ignition are both measurements that are on the road to success (high temperature high pressure regime). You can have one without the other. This announcement is good but it is not such an announcement that requires a pre-announcement!

Net energy means that they have efficient reactions. That can come from a new arrangement of the pellet so that the lasers heat the fuel (and not the container the fuel is in).

Ignition is still the prize. Right now it is about one shot per hour. Each pellet is custom made. Energy is the goal and any efficiency made along the way are welcome! For example, we need a dozen shots in a minute (or less). So, no, we won’t have laser fusion boats anytime soon (which was my tone, chosen to keep those dreams from being argued over).

But I would love to read the science myself instead of “the same process that powers the sun”. Also why the pre-announcement is not a big deal.

originally posted by: Paddyofurniture

I’m just reading it now, apparently DOE is scheduled to announce something tomorrow.

Holy Shi…. Is this actually something?

“ —
For the first time ever, US scientists at the National Ignition Facility at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California successfully produced a nuclear fusion reaction resulting in a net energy gain, a source familiar with the project confirmed to CNN.”

US scientists reach long-awaited nuclear fusion breakthrough, source says

They announce something every year as they incrementally proceed, this doesn't sound much different than the last announcment. They're still a long way off from building a power plant with one of these things. When they do finally reach that point energy is going to probably decrease in price.

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

I'm practically convinced that they've been sitting on this for a while now. And only recently released this "breakthrough" because the BRICS nations are banding together to get rid of the dollar. A little convenient IMO.

Official Dept of Energy release:

www.energy.gov...

originally posted by: Paddyofurniture
Official Dept of Energy release:

www.energy.gov...

This is freaking amazing.

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

LLNL’s experiment surpassed the fusion threshold by delivering 2.05 megajoules (MJ) of energy to the target, resulting in 3.15 MJ of fusion energy output, demonstrating for the first time a most fundamental science basis for inertial fusion energy (IFE). Many advanced science and technology developments are still needed to achieve simple, affordable IFE to power homes and businesses, and DOE is currently restarting a broad-based, coordinated IFE program in the United States.

Same source (DOE)

Again, nice milestone!

Also, even the DOE has confused (ha!) “net energy” and “ignition” in their link: NIF Achieves Nuclear Fusion Ignition.

How will the world economy function post-carbon fuel?
Even if the tech was at the consumer level right now, I really couldn't see it being allowed to flourish in any meaningful manner.

How would it work with fuel and home utility bills?

a reply to: Tagz

Keep on thinking about it!!

Here is what I came up with: You are charged by the expected energy use (personal) over your lifetime (just like insurance). Like taxes, we “household rates” based on the number of people per household. Corporate users have their own rates.

To me, this will change our relationship (value) of money (and generating and consumption of energy/goods).

Again, eventually, a Star Trek civilization! Yes, petroleum will be with us for a long time. But we move away from the “Medieval landed lord” model we are yoked with! And if you still don’t like society at that point, we will be traveling to the stars!

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: Tagz

Keep on thinking about it!!

Here is what I came up with: You are charged by the expected energy use (personal) over your lifetime (just like insurance). Like taxes, we “household rates” based on the number of people per household. Corporate users have their own rates.

To me, this will change our relationship (value) of money (and generating and consumption of energy/goods).

Again, eventually, a Star Trek civilization! Yes, petroleum will be with us for a long time. But we move away from the Medieval landed lord” model we are yoked with! And if you still don’t like society at that point, we will be traveling to the stars!

Then again, maybe, others will understand the science and make affordable knock offs so some of us can be free of government or greedy corporations with their hands in our pockets for our lifetime.

a reply to: quintessentone

That is how we end up with cheap energy all the way around. First, central control, then Radio Shack enthusiasts, and then Mr Fusion!

And don’t forget hydo power…

xkcd.com...

(According to Wikipedia, Q=1 is break even; and they believe that we need Q=5 for ignition and burning plasma. But I like the xocd explanation better!)

Another update says that there were problems with the fuel pellet (confusingly called a “holorum” which is both the physical pellet and the space the fuel will occupy! I think it means ‘cavity’, or ‘hollow space’, in German, and we are lazy Mericans with no regard for specifics!)

And I read (source?? I think, if interesting engineering??), that NIF lasers are less than 5% (??)) efficient at transferring their energy to the hilorum.

So, if those factors can be mitigated, then this is a pretty grand step (despite my original hesitation. “Big announcements” In nuclear fusion are always prefaced with “breakthrough” or “new world record”, and add combative countries to the mix, and “news” is not always “news” but an “announcement”, or, just trying for bragging rights. Because we all remember Kim Jong Un aolved cold fusion years ago!!)

(Warning! Math needed to understand this article! Or, “There be Math here!”):


physics.aps.org...

Interesting timing! Just as we hit winter with Putin holding Europe to energy ransom, there's news from the US that we may not need Putin's gas much longer...

Strong whiff of Reagan-esque Star Wars Project bluffing here!

Sure fusion is in the works and is always 20 years away, but now of all times for this announcement and from all places Putin's arch enemy. Are the US worried that the cold winter that's just hit parts of Europe this week is going to rattle those nation's resolve to stick to the price fix that just pi$$ed off Putin?

I don't want to turn this wonderful announcement into a conspiracy, but come on - the timing!!!

Free energy is a lot simpler than this. Tesla did it with easy more than 100 years ago...

originally posted by: network dude
I hate to be the wet blanket, but I have been told by self proclaimed experts for 40 years that this wasn't possible. Just like Hydrogen can't be used to fuel cars. A peak back in ATS history reveals some interesting conversations, debunking things like this.

But if it was really real, wouldn't something that made more energy than it consumed make Big oil angry?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My immediate take on your post is a question.

So does this mean that Bid Oil is finally being told to F off and go f themselves?

My train of thought quickly descended into a mental rant and is R rated.

a reply to: Paddyofurniture

Really doesnt surprise me that just now when our planet really need an alternative energy solution "they" come up with a fusion break through. I bet they have on the shelve several choices to choose from and decided on fusion.. Maybe when the dust has cleared from the mess we are going through anti gravity technology will surface too..