There is something seriously wrong with Canada

a reply to: ancientlight
"Nazi Germany comes to mind. Auschwitz was full of the 'infirm'."

And thats why it creeps me out the most. Those are the ones who would say, "dont you have compassion?" for pushing suicide on a treatable mental disorder. Same as these unnesessay surgeries on "mature minors" There is no such thing. Minors cannot consent like an Adult without parental consent. And thats highly questionable imo.

a reply to: 20Eyes1974

Those are the ones who would say, "dont you have compassion?" for pushing suicide on a treatable mental disorder.

This is where things are going too far, just because someone identifies with being a crucifix for a day some equally whacked out psychologist cannot bump them off. This is where it is important to have a good open discussion between the medical community, close family, friends and the individual. Some may not want to know anything, that is fine. Death is a tough one to approach, we all do it in our own way. It is one thing we can all count on one day.

Some of the results coming out of this transgender stuff for kids has a high suicide rate. More than capable than requiring any assistance in the matter. Hopefully in time they can work a way through.

a reply to: kwakakev

until recently I'd have agreed to a point, the point being that the medical profession are neither perfect or always right especially in terms of kids,

the problem is we are trusting this question to a strata of society that thinks like Virginia Woolf who summed up the feelings of the left or progressive liberal class in one of her diary entries on euthanasia..

we met & had to pass a long line of imbeciles. the first was a very tall young man, just queer enough to look at twice, but no more; the second shuffled, & looked aside; and then one realised that everyone in that long line was a miserable ineffective shuffling idiotic creature, with no forehead, or no chin, & an imbecile grin, or a wild suspicious stare. It was perfectly horrible. They should certainly be killed.

a class where euthanasia evolves not as a choice but into a solution to crime, to drink, diet, drug, mental health and the ultimate solution to poverty and poor quality workers..

when reading what the progressive liberals thought in the period from ww1 to ww2 its easy to see how the death camps appeared as an extreme expression of those views and why the camps were as little remarked on then as China's camps today.

our society is at risk becoming a similar bystander to it again or worse a participant..

Regardless of the irrationality of wanting to take your own life, it is totally a subjective decision made by the person that is living that life and wants to end it.

Since the decision to do this has been made legal, then it is really nobody's business but the beholder, otherwise, what is the point in having such a law in the first place?

I can see the attempts to talk them out of it, based upon their mental state and other ramifications that their death may have on relatives and such... but in the 'spirit' of that law, they have already been given the permission.

a reply to: charlyv

I have to agree. I never intended to dilute the sincerity with which this bill is intended.

My fear is for "minors" of any ilk.

Certainly not meaning to remove legitimacy from this attempt to make a sane policy about end-of-life decisions. These belong squarely with the relevant citizens - not what I fear can come of it, or how it might be perverted or abused.

Please understand me when I say all my posts were no attempt to diminish this topic. My intent is never to derail.

a reply to: charlyv

the issue though is the process risks evolving into one that shepherds ever more along the path for certain groups and in the midst of a mental health crisis its easy to see euthanasia as the easy option to deal with that crisis and so many other issues, from poverty to mental health to drink and drugs issues, its always been seen as a way to permanently rid rid society of its burdens with progressive liberals as its keenest champions.

a reply to: nickyw

Governments turning on its population is a problem. Is a long history of it, so that trend reoccurring is a real possibility. Can see how this policy is a step in that direction.

We do euthanize animals as an act of compassion.

a reply to: kwakakev

I have to disagree this is an example of a government turning on its' people... governments have no will... its the people entrusted with the government's authority that are the problem.

And perhaps there is "societal" angle to this discussion. Who is doing the deciding "for you" - in the end?

a reply to: kwakakev

its not gov though its society and we see that with other issues such as sterilising kids because they are the odd ones out, some more active in that than others mine turns a blind eye to it all.. but thats going to be a major mental health issue at some point, one that feels tailor made for euthanasia.. itd be a neat solution to a self made issue.

As for animals sometimes that can go wrong too. such as the British pet massacre where the big lie overrode common sense..

One thing I have noticed working on the farms is how population density does impact the culture of the animals. As things get more squashed together, aggression does rise.

Maybe there is something like this going on with humans too? With how China is going with its population density issues, things are getting rough over there. India does have similar population density, but not seam as rough on the surface. Poverty is big thing over there, but while there is enough to go around the general dignity and respect for life does look stronger.

Nature does have many options when it comes to death and it will find its balance one way or another. For the people on the eugenics program, they do appear to be suffering from anxiety issues and pushing for something that nature already has sorted.

originally posted by: kwakakev
So where would you draw the line when the medical community can see this kid is stuffed, the kid knows they are stuffed, some of the family knows the kid is stuffed while others in the family do not want to let that hope go?

It is simple.

Like it or not, minors are minors, and the ultimate authority and decision for something like this is on the parents.

The State does not - or SHOULD not - have a say in the matter.

If you believe otherwise, then you believe that the State has a property interest in our children, which makes you a Socialist/Communist...

a reply to: tanstaafl

which makes you a Socialist/Communist...

I am not sure how you got to that as I do respect ones own self determination. As for where the line is drawn is raising some contention. It is important that the individual in question has the mental ability to understand the consequences of such a decision.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: tanstaafl

I am not sure how you got to that as I do respect ones own self determination. As for where the line is drawn is raising some contention. It is important that the individual in question has the mental ability to understand the consequences of such a decision.

There is nothing to contend.

A minor is INCAPABLE of legally INCOMPETENT when it comes to making such decisions. Period.

a reply to: tanstaafl
a reply to: kwakakev

This conversation could benefit from the concept of "chattle."

In our patriarchal antiquity family members of a household were 'chattel' of the pater familias. Which is to say the master of the household 'owns' the children (and his wife) from a moral perspective. That tradition survives through cultural evolution into today in many cultures... the disposition of the child is exclusively the domain of the parent. This approach to legislation reduces that last to ... the disposition of the child is not exclusively the domain of the parent. Whether this is a desirable thing is arguably debatable (no pun intended.)

The laws pertaining to adulthood are peppered with phrases like "independence" and "freedom" as if the parent status had elements of slave holding to it. In the crafting of these laws the child's existence becomes independent and free from the parent - who no longer are accountable nor responsible.

Your governments codification of laws or policies challenges - at the very least - the parental relationship as many understand it. I wish you the wisdom to move ahead clearly recognizing what you leave behind if you create a new class of citizen beside child and adult.

On the other hand. I cannot judge, for I am not all knowing, nor gifted with great wisdom.

It certainly seems appropriate that even a child can deserve a right to say "no" to end-of-life suffering. But laws don't "think" - people need to be in the equation... not systems and codes.

a reply to: litterbaux

When I hear of MAiD, I think of Aktion - T4.



In those days, it was compulsory, and these days it isn't. I'm not sure that this doesn't make it scarier - that people are openly embracing this as somehow noble and good.

a reply to: tanstaafl

A minor is INCAPABLE of legally INCOMPETENT when it comes to making such decisions. Period.

I disagree. Firstly such decisions are not made alone, it is done in consultation between the medical community and family. As for how things fall when this option is on the table has to stop somewhere.

When palliative care is an option, great. As it becomes less effective in the latter stages of some conditions, the individual going through the agony is in the best position to decide if they can bear it or just wants it to stop. I expect in most situations the family can make a unified decision in how to proceed.

For the situations where such an agreement cannot be made, this policy position appears reasonable.

meh,
justine latrine
has better things to deal with.

a reply to: litterbaux

Yup, we’re pretty screwed up. And a large portion of our population laps it up.

This is what socialism does.

They offer programs like healthcare.

Then they tell you your a burden.

Then they make you tow some imaginary line for the good of your fellow comrades.

Or they just kill ya.

a reply to: kwakakev

Well, I guess at least the kid can't come to regret this one like they can gender transition.