If we are unaware that we live in virtual world and have no free will, does it matter?

So, I've been watching Westworld on HBO. I've only just started season 3, so please no spoilers. If you haven't watched the show, hosts(robots/androids) appear almost human and are at the whim of the guests(actual humans).

At one point in season 1, William, a guest, is trying to figure out if the person who greeted him at the entrance is human or a host. She answers by asking, "If you can't tell, does it matter?". And that is sort of a theme in the series. The hosts that don't like the fact that they've been created to serve the guests rise up.

But I guess my question is, "If our world seems real, even though it may be not, does it matter?". Because even if there is more to reality than what we think, which is what I believe, then we will eventually get there. And this virtual world is just a stepping stone.

Thoughts?

a reply to: VeeSter

Thoughts?

If we are unaware that we live in virtual world and have no free will, does it matter?

I would think it only matters if the simulation/virtual world itself (assuming we people are part of the simulation) is not self-aware - I lean towards. Otherwise what is the point of simulating the consciousness of so many people to just have them follow a set out pre-determined line?

You would have to assume that it is a prison otherwise, or some form of program being run like a game or training, that is experiencing itself if that's possible as it is being run, or the real person/s is plugged in I think?.
What would be the point in having NPC's at all, if the point of the simulation was to just run in a straight line void of creativity or outcomes, its just moving pictures or similar if this is the case? The more real the simulation, the better the outcome? If that's the case then everything you do matters even if none of us are "real".

Anyways just shooting the crap down the rabbit-hole and not my beliefs as such, it's a good question, tickles the mind with boundaries and made me think of this...



"And it shall be called...Ea-bloop!"

We could be the question to the answer

Cheers

This is the type of thing I miss certain members on here commenting on.

PS: im not familiar with the show you spoke about but just liked the question in a general sense

a reply to: VeeSter

no matter what

"there is nothing real outside of your perception of reality"

why

"you cant handle the truth"

this virtual world bs and the "we live in the matrix" thing is all bull sh it, if you can't handle life and question it then you probably don't deserve it, the idea that you have a pre ponderance of it should say something, it should sound like "well if I am thinking about this than I probably am not a robot" A robot wouldn't think like this because it doesn't have:


A soul man

all hail shakaka!

Maybe the NPC's are just neutral elements (preprogrammed to run certain functions, like the robots you mentioned) and the Free Will Human Collective is then free to pursue their personal self enrichment pursuits in accordance with their personal Life Paths?

I'm still new to the simulation theory, but it seems to be a further continuation of the thematics of the Matrix series, just with a different perspective of the premise.

a reply to: XXXN3O

I would think it only matters if the simulation/virtual world itself (assuming we people are part of the simulation) is not self-aware - I lean towards. Otherwise what is the point of simulating the consciousness of so many people to just have them follow a set out pre-determined line?

You would have to assume that it is a prison otherwise, or some form of program being run like a game or training, that is experiencing itself if that's possible as it is being run, or the real person/s is plugged in


I think?.
What would be the point in having NPC's at all, if the point of the simulation was to just run in a straight line void of creativity or outcomes, its just moving pictures or similar if this is the case? The more real the simulation, the better the outcome? If that's the case then everything you do matters even if none of us are "real".

Anyways just shooting the crap down the rabbit-hole and not my beliefs as such, it's a good question, tickles the mind with boundaries and made me think of this...

They sort of address this in the show. At a certain point, many of the "hosts" become self-aware. They still have the "back story" they are programmed with, but are trying to adjust with the actual world around them. And there are many "hosts" who have not become self aware.

And of course, what I believe is the most important question, "What is consciousness?" And if we now, or in the future, have tha capability to create AI with consciousness, should we?

a reply to: Brotherman

this virtual world bs and the "we live in the matrix" thing is all bull sh it, if you can't handle life and question it then you probably don't deserve it, the idea that you have a pre ponderance of it should say something, it should sound like "well if I am thinking about this than I probably am not a robot" A robot wouldn't think like this because it doesn't have:

Well, that's a pretty negative statement. But my question was, "What if we were living in a virtual world, not that I said we were." I wasn't saying that I was a robot, or surrounded by robots, I was just asking, "does it matter if we all were in a simulation?".

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

Maybe the NPC's are just neutral elements (preprogrammed to run certain functions, like the robots you mentioned) and the Free Will Human Collective is then free to pursue their personal self enrichment pursuits in accordance with their personal Life Paths?

I'm still new to the simulation theory, but it seems to be a further continuation of the thematics of the Matrix series, just with a different perspective of the premise.

If we were in a simulation, we would not know who was an NPC. And yes, I always go back to Morpheus's statement, "What is real?". But my question still remains, "does it matter", or are we just going thru the motions? Or, does what we do affect ourselves and others around us?

a reply to: VeeSter
Have you ever seen out your third eye?

Cause when that happens, what's real in this life becomes what could only be described as an illusion, your body is what holds an essence that when free of it, is omniscient, and detached completely from pain, suffering and emotion. Bringing this kind of knowledge back into a body that is conditioned in to a world of lies, leaves you with more questions, but wow, vividness takes on a whole new meaning when you can look within.

When I used to hear that the answers were found by looking within, I would agree, without actually knowing how to look within, but now that I know it turns out it very simple, and is really just a matter of quietening the mind, being aware of the energy flow, the chi, or the prana, and being able to concentrate on this flow, using the imagination to direct it to different locations or chakra, that coexist with the material body. Sexual energy retention and direction is the key to all of this.

a reply to: VeeSter
What if there is no one in bodies anywhere?
The assumption is that there is someone doing thoughts and action.....but maybe there is just what is appearing to happen.
Maybe there is just the one (just what's happening)....and not two (someone/something doing what's happening).

No, it doesn’t matter. Ultimately nothing really does.

a reply to: VeeSter

Of course we have an effect on the people around us.

We can help, offer support and advice or just be there to comfort and add a positive energy to their day.

Some folks go out of their way to make things difficult though.

It's part of the challenges we have as human beings.

We can be a protagonist or an antagonist in our personal storylines.

a reply to: VeeSter


Interesting thought experiment.

Can I send you my bank details so you can send me money?

You will send me money.

Remember, it's only an illusion.

And money is a construct within an illusion.

a reply to: VeeSter

The question is not whether it matters

It is more "What is real?"

What parameters for metric would even classify this world as either being real or fake?

Even if everyone and everything in this world is physical and tangible, what makes that "real", compared to an identical system existing within some type of definable technology?

It is all about perception and feeling

The answer of why is the experience itself. It isn't complicated

The lyrics to one of my songs

All that you feel, is all that is real
Don't let anyone take that
You're alive

Feeling is all their is. The experience of being able to ask the question, is itself, the answer

You either accept your reality, or you don't
The "reality" is you

If you are real, that what you perceive can be as real or as fake as you choose within the experience of self

Think of it this way:

Even if this world were completely virtual and "fake", would it make it any less beautiful?

In a virtual world....you would not experience physical pain.

So if you think you live in a virtual world, cut off your pinky and if that hurts you are not in a virtual world.

P.S. Do NOT cut your pinky off because this life is real and it will hurt like hell.

No virtual world

No matrix

No time travel...flesh and bone can not withstand the stress.

a reply to: VeeSter

a reply to: VeeSter

it would matter if your algorithm were programed or directed to have it matter based on parameters being triggered .

season 1 amazing , then it starts to drop from there but still good.

im hanging in there with it.

if you liked it, you should check out ex machina.

Other than an intensional lie; there's no such thing as artificial intelligence.

a reply to: VeeSter

22 minutes you may find interesting.

Einstein's theory of relativity appears to break down at very small space (10 to the -33 m) and time (10-43 seconds). Donald Hoffman is a cognitive scientist and popular science author and argues that there is no such thing as space time in physics, and that all physical events are ultimately conscious.

This video is a fascinating look at one of the leading minds in cognitive science , and his argument that physical events are ultimately conscious.

Hoffman discusses the problems with the popular idea of space and time being fundamental aspects of the universe, and argues that these concepts are instead results of our own understanding (or lack there of) and experience.

To answer your question , no it probably wouldn't matter but it would be interesting to know.

a reply to: gortex

I remember a book I read, where the premise was the you are actually everyone/everything. Basically, you are experiencing life from different life's perspectives all at one, and only when life ends, does all the different consciousness come together to form the one conscious. Once the one conscious is formed, that conscious becomes "God" which then creates a new conscious, and a new universe, that repeats the pattern. If you think about it from this perspective. As a "God" you would have experienced life on unlimited number of worlds, unlimited amount of animals and plants, during a near infinite amount of time. Think of it this way, big bang, conscious created, when it all goes dark, eventually conscious becomes one. it might take 10's of Billions of years for all life to die in a universe, but eventually as energy drains from the universe, the universe grows cold, and dies out. People say, well if I was God, I would do X,Y,Z. however this concept is based on your life and the experience you gained in that lifetime. I would imagine an ant would have different priorities and different objectives, as does the tree. If you have all these different perspectives, you would have the knowledge and wisdom of a tree, an ant, a fish, a lion. You would also have the experience of a murder, a rapist, a liar, a thief, as well as the perspective of the victims. As a lion, would you view things differently, if you knew the life of a gazelle, and endured being eaten alive? Or as a human, how would your perspective change if you experienced murder wholesale, living the lives all all those that died in every war. If you had the combined knowledge and wisdom of all the universe, how would this impact you perception. Ultimately, if we are in a matrix, the random variations give us the variables in life, as well as the experience of those variables, so having predestination is not congruent with the concept to experience all experiences. On the flip side, each life would have a predestination, as ultimately an ant can only do ant things, while a lion does a lion thing. Anyways, talking metaphysics and conceptual reality ultimately doesn't change factors in ones life. One chooses to life the life they want to live, whether it be that of a father, mother, son, or daughter, and one chooses the the path the lead through the end, through their past experiences which will ultimately dictate your present, which will ultimate dictate your future. Yes people can change, however that change comes from experiences and decisions that factor into that change, that leads to that change, which ultimately, are they changing, or simply following the path .

This is a conversation that can go round and round, might I suggest getting outside, seeing the sun, touching the grass, and maybe, just maybe, find something to make you happy.

Camain

Try
Up-Up-Down-Down-Left-Right-Left-Right-B-A
and see what happens