Is Ukraine about to get M1 Abrams Tanki

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Your a FAKE American Citizen , NEXT..............

ah ain't that special, can't support what he posts so he reverts to trying to insult. just sad sad sad.

a reply to: vNex92

The REAL REASON for the US/EU Conflict Right Now with Russia is Not About the Ukraine , but by Somehow Deposing Putin so they can Conquer the LAST Great Nation State Before the " NWO " Can " Seal The Deal " on Bringing on their Delusional " Great Reset " . I Suspect " Some " German Speaking People " are Involved in that to ...........

As long as there are Russian tanks in NATO inventories it is doubtful that M1s will be shipped to Ukraine.

The M1 is a great tank and in a tank-to-tank battle there are very few that have threatened it. That is a bit deceiving though because it matters little what type of tank is shooting at it and more on what kind of cannon and round is being used.

In Iraq, we lost over 500 M1s and I think only 15 to direct action. You have to remember that Iraqi forces didn't have any of the newer shells that Ru developed to penetrate US armor. Many were developed after that war including DU sabots.

All that is even moot because this is primarily an artillery war with ambush tactics of small teams further in with anti-tank missiles. As tough as an M1 is it isn't going to survive a direct hit from artillery any more than a Russian tank is and that is what is happening mostly in these battles.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: vNex92

The REAL REASON for the US/EU Conflict Right Now with Russia is Not About the Ukraine , but by Somehow Deposing Putin so they can Conquer the LAST Great Nation State Before the " NWO " Can " Seal The Deal " on Bringing on their Delusional " Great Reset " . I Suspect " Some " German Speaking People " are Involved in that to ...........

How utterly ridiculous

Does it look like the majority of the western public supported lock-downs and refusnik passports?

Where are they now?

In China right? zero covid lock downs forever?

Notice a PsyOps when you see one do you? obviously not but who cares it works on a GLOBAL LEVEL

Let me break it down for you... what do you want?

A) Russian Christian White Nationalism?
B) Chinese Communist social credit system?

Interesting you picked A

No, you don't even have to tell me that, its obvious i'm writing A on your CV... We'll pop you down as RADICALIZED

These guys know EXACTLY what they're doing, you on the other hand don't IHMO

So let me remind you of the intelligence report

Russia and China represent distinct challenges to U.S. national security. Russia is not a peer or near-peer competitor but rather a well-armed rogue state that seeks to subvert an international order it can never hope to dominate. In contrast, China is a peer competitor that wants to shape an international order that it can aspire to dominate. Both countries seek to alter the status quo, but only Russia has attacked neighboring states, annexed conquered territory, and supported insurgent forces seeking to detach yet more territory. Russia assassinates its opponents at home and abroad, interferes in foreign elections, subverts foreign democracies, and works to undermine European and Atlantic institutions. In contrast, China's growing influence is based largely on more-positive measures: trade, investment, and development assistance. These attributes make China a less immediate threat but a much greater long-term challenge

You've chosen one of their default positions that they'll use to lump you with, yet hmm they're allies? how could that be so?

You're at odds with it?

But they aren't? they're the best of friends?

So strange?

Surely Russian Christian Nationalism shouldn't be allies with Islamic extremists and Marxist totalitarian lunatics?

And if you're not awake now dude, you NEVER FKING WILL BE

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: vNex92

The REAL REASON for the US/EU Conflict Right Now with Russia is Not About the Ukraine , but by Somehow Deposing Putin so they can Conquer the LAST Great Nation State Before the " NWO " Can " Seal The Deal " on Bringing on their Delusional " Great Reset " . I Suspect " Some " German Speaking People " are Involved in that to ...........

putin invaded Ukraine so nwo could depose him?

There are plenty of reasons to dislike (even hate) putin, but that kind of stoopidity isn't one of them.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: TritonTaranis
.....The MAJORITY of the American People Do Not Support the Ukraine nor the Russian Federation . A Vote of " No Confidence " is in Order here . A POTUS Escalating a Military Conflict without the American People's IMPUT is an Unconstitutional Criminal Act .

Not sure where you are getting your information from. Here are the results from a recent (August 18) poll on the subject by the Chicago Council on Global affairs:

Key Findings:

"Majorities continue to support US economic and diplomatic sanctions against Russia (80%), accepting Ukrainian refugees into the United States (76%), providing additional arms and military supplies to the Ukrainian government (72%), and giving economic assistance to Ukraine (71%).

Nearly four in 10 support sending US troops to defend Ukraine (38%).

By a six-to-four ratio, Americans say the United States should support Ukraine for as long as it takes, even if American households will have to pay higher gas and food prices in consequence. However, there are significant partisan differences."

It is true that a majority of the population does not support sending troops, but material and financial support for Ukraine against Russia is strong.

www.thechicagocouncil.org...

You are probably one of those "partisans" on the Trump side of the spectrum. If you only ever talk to others like yourself, you could easily be fooled into thinking yours is the majority position.

You know Boomer , Polls are like Arseholes , Everybody has one . I do not Listen to LAME Propaganda , so , do You > ? ...Hmm..

It's called backing your opinions with evidence.

they apparently got US munitions to work on Mig's so I am pretty sure they can keep anything working but I really dont think we should send them tanks every non-guerilla tactic usable weapon we have sent seems to get blown up pretty quickly.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: MidnightWatcher

A No Confidence Vote can be Petitioned by the American People at ANY TIME according to the Constitution Of The United States . You are Incorrect .

Once again, citation needed. Where does the Constitution say that? But after reading your other responses here it is clear you have no particular expertise. Though you are entitled to your opinion (and that IS in the Constitution), it is not credible.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Waste of a good tank is what is going to happen.

Piecemeal use of tanks has been disastrous in many past conflicts. Look at superior French tanks miss used in 1940, Superior Russian tanks and numbers outdone by German inferior tanks using better tactics and command 1941-43 and Russian return of the favor in 1944-45 against superior Panther and Tiger tanks used piecemeal and in low numbers.

Tank crews train long hours, months and years on coordination and tactics along with an officer cadre' fully immersed in tank warfare to be successful in tank v tank battles.

Infantry mounted on AFV's must also be trained to fight alongside and protect tank formations from enemy infantry deploying anti-tank weapons - one does not use tanks unsupported by other formations including ground and air assets.

I have serious doubts that a few months is any time at all to train any useful force using M-1 tanks in Ukraine other than for show and propaganda.

This'll end up like Tigers at Kursk.

a reply to: Grimpachi


Most of those lost in Iraq were due to mines or shaped charges, and none of those losses came from a tank barrel (though some had minor external damage from russian tank guns)

M1s have a severe vulnerability to modern mines, and a pretty big vulnerability to shaped charges (of 1 specific type that the reactive armor had trouble with in iraq, that might be corrected by now).



M1 is nowhere near being the best tank in the world anymore, but it's FAR better than anything russia can muster, and is immediately available in huge numbers.

An M1 being used properly is practically invulnerable to any russian tank gun, mostly because russia can't even hit them when used properly, but also because the M1 is invulnerable to all but a few russian rounds fired at close range, where an M1 should never be.

100 russian tanks vs 10 M1s would not frighten any American tank crew, and have successfully fought through those exact situations in the past. This would likely lead to a 100 russian tank loss as 10 M1s drove to their next destination.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
they apparently got US munitions to work on Mig's so I am pretty sure they can keep anything working but I really dont think we should send them tanks every non-guerilla tactic usable weapon we have sent seems to get blown up pretty quickly.

The US got the US munitions to work on mig 29s many years ago, we then gave that tech to Ukraine a few months ago. The fact that we had highly modified mig 29s in our inventory was classified until we gave the tech to Ukraine.




The M1 has essentially a jet plane engine, Ukrainian diesel mechanics aren't going to just figure this one out.

It takes years of new training for diesel mechanics to maintain and repair, along with tools & equipment that diesel mechanics would be completely unfamiliar with.

Fun fact: the US wanted to use the same engine for Apache helicopters so a single set of mechanics could easily maintain both platforms from forward positions, but eventually chose a slightly different engine for Apache.

originally posted by: 38181

originally posted by: asabuvsobelow
a reply to: 38181

I wonder if these will retain the depleted uranium armor skirting?

along with the reactive armor I'm sure other wise what would be the point of sending them Abrams ?

Because only the US version is equipped with depleted uranium for obvious control reasons, other countries that have Abrams get the this steel version skirts. That’s why.

I see okay I didn't realize the export version was outfitted with steel skirts.

a reply to: MidnightWatcher

The HARM will work on any aircraft that can supply power through a pylon. It's not actually integrated on the Ukrainian aircraft. They're basically blind firing them and letting the missile seeker find the target.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MidnightWatcher

The HARM will work on any aircraft that can supply power through a pylon. It's not actually integrated on the Ukrainian aircraft. They're basically blind firing them and letting the missile seeker find the target.

Thank you!

I didn't know they were launching blind.

Weren't there some pylon modifications?

There was supposedly some reason why this combo was on a list of things to never discuss given to visitors at a Yuma demonstration a few year back (I think the Top Gun school actually owned the Mig 29s that were there).

That's pretty much the extent of my 'knowledge' on these.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit


"The REAL REASON for the US/EU Conflict Right Now with Russia is Not About the Ukraine , but by Somehow Deposing Putin so they can Conquer the LAST Great Nation State Before the " NWO " Can " Seal The Deal " on Bringing on their Delusional " Great Reset"


Read it yourself, none of it makes much sense in reality.

Starting with 'US Conflict with russia', and ending with 'deposing putin'.



We are not at war, we have no troops fighting in the russian invasion of Ukraine (that we know of), and russia is not 'the last great nation state'.

The russian invasion of a non threatening European country is the only reason we even have issues with putin or russia right now.

Well, that and his frequent nuke threats.




putin did not launch his invasion so nwo could depose him, and the world is not supporting Ukraine for that reason either.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MidnightWatcher

The HARM will work on any aircraft that can supply power through a pylon. It's not actually integrated on the Ukrainian aircraft. They're basically blind firing them and letting the missile seeker find the target.

Do you know if what I posted about the M1's engine is mostly correct?

a reply to: MidnightWatcher

They had to modify the pylon so it could supply power to the missile, but there are basically three options. The first, and simplest, is to identify where the radar and air defense system is located, get within range, and launch the missile with the seeker and missile doing all the work.

The second is similar, but a little more complex. In this case, they add an attack display in the cockpit. This lets the pilots get a more accurate picture of where the radar is. The missile still does all the work, but the pilots can see on the display where the radar is located, so they give the missile a smaller attack window.

The third, and by far the most complex and time consuming, is to fully integrate the missiles. In this case, the aircraft would be down up to two months or more. The wiring would be upgraded so the aircraft could talk to the missile, and HTS would be integrated. This is by far the most accurate system, but the worst of the three options by far in this situation.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MidnightWatcher

They had to modify the pylon so it could supply power to the missile, but there are basically three options. The first, and simplest, is to identify where the radar and air defense system is located, get within range, and launch the missile with the seeker and missile doing all the work.

The second is similar, but a little more complex. In this case, they add an attack display in the cockpit. This lets the pilots get a more accurate picture of where the radar is. The missile still does all the work, but the pilots can see on the display where the radar is located, so they give the missile a smaller attack window.

The third, and by far the most complex and time consuming, is to fully integrate the missiles. In this case, the aircraft would be down up to two months or more. The wiring would be upgraded so the aircraft could talk to the missile, and HTS would be integrated. This is by far the most accurate system, but the worst of the three options by far in this situation.

Thank You Zaph!

It's always nice to have a resident expert!

I do what I can here, as honestly as I can, because russia invaded Ukraine, but this obviously isn't my area of expertise.