Work Ethic

originally posted by: neomaximus10

Im too nice to run my own shop, i would give too much small stuff away to help people, i dont have the heart to be a businessman lol. The amount of money to open a shop with the right equipment and scanners is dumbfounding nowadays, if you dont have a top of the line scanner for these newer cars, you are just spinning your wheels. i do have many contacts that would love to have me when i do make the jump out of my security blanket. And my wife is pushing me to pull the blanket off

So reading your reply I get the feeling that your situation is acceptable for you, and that is just fine. It is not always about money. It is only the lack of money is when issues come up. That could be 10 to 100 bucks an hour, but it uniquely different for each person. As example a person can be a 2nd grade teacher for 30 years and love it, they are not making big bucks at any point of their career, but it is enough and what they like to do, GREAT!

I make really good income, but I could do better by a good deal, but one needs to weight all the factors. Right now I work when I want to work, take time off when ever I want to, be near my kids in college, don't need to move to a much higher living expense area etc. etc. I could go work for lets say amazon and increase my pay by lets say 30%, but their expectation is I work 50 to 60 hours per week, on call 24/7 and so they demand that level of involvement that I'm unwilling to do at my age to do as I work about 30 hours per week right now, so a big NO to that job. This doesn't mean I don't make bank for my company, but I do it on my terms and my time. So, at the end of the day you need to weigh all factors and when a situation comes a long that "greatly" increases either your pay or potential then take it, but understand the negatives too.

I have a women that works for me and about 2 times a year she askes me what should she do with her life. She makes good money, but is basically stagnated in what she can do at her position. I keep telling her you just keep doing what you are doing for the next 7 years then come ask me again.

The reason I say this is because she is a single mom and is given all the freedom to take care for her kid who is 6. She is in such a fantastic position and she just doesn't know it because she is doing the same job year in and year out, but when her kid hits like 13 then she has a ton more freedom to do whatever.

As I said it is not always about the money...cheers

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: 19Bones79

Work ethic has taken on a different meaning lately.
Today it’s hard to get people to even show up to work yet alone work hard.
In the not to distant past you would be fired if you missed three days in your ninety day probationary period.

We had a girl at my work that within a span of a month call in an average 2-3 times a week after just being hired. She stated she wanted full time hours we gave them to her, then she would call off claiming it was too much for her "disability" that she disclosed to us, and every shift we accommodated her. (She said she has POTS disease). She lasted longer than the 90 day period and I never understood why. Was not reliable and incredibly preachy for a 20 yr old. But, apparently they can get away with it nowadays because "feelz"

I always operated on goals. I have goals I am trying to achieve, and my company has goals they are trying to achieve. Usually I need money to achieve my goals and my employer needs my expertise to achieve theirs.

I never considered a job to be a "marriage." I see a lot of people who do. They expect their employer to take care of everything in their life for them... benefits, time off at a moment's notice, special work conditions... I never asked for any of that. I look at the job offer. If it has benefits, how will those benefits benefit me? Is it enough money for me to accomplish what I want to accomplish? Can I live with the schedule? If the answers are all positive, then I accept the job and do the best job for my employer I can possibly do. That includes learning why they want things done the way they want things done, finding a better way if possible and letting them know about it, being there when they expect me to be there, not complaining about things they don't care about, etc.

It's worked out OK for me. The biggest problem has been a few employers who saw I was willing to give an inch and then demanded a mile, but that's going to happen from time to time.

The best job I ever had was for a drafting service when I was in my "yuppie" phase. I showed up for the interview, looked over what they did, assured them I could do what they said they needed, and they put me on "scrubbing" for the first four weeks or so... "scrubbing" is making specific corrections to someone else's work based on feedback from the checker. The way it works is, a lead draftsman gets assigned a job; if the job is large, they assemble a team of draftsmen; they produce the drawings; the drawings go to a checker who checks for accuracy; the checked drawings go to a scrubber who makes the corrections; the lead draftsman and checker both then sign off that the job is complete.

I used that time to learn. I was being shown errors others had made, and I learned from their mistakes. Every single day I did as much as I could and learned as much as I could. Then, when I got my first draftsman job for that company, I used all that knowledge to produce accurate drawings as fast as I could. It took less than a year until no one cared that i was sitting at my board with my feet propped up shooting the bull with someone; everyone knew, including the owner, that as soon as i dropped those feet (which I always did) I would produce twice the work of anyone else until I needed to rest again and clear my head.

I soon got a reputation as being one of the fastest and most accurate draftsmen they had.

I had enough money for myself, and enough time for myself. All that despite being willing to work overtime 90% of the time. I loved that job, and the owner loved me. The worst career mistake I ever made was taking that Chief Draftsman position closer to home. Hindsight is 20/20.

Later on, I sat on the other side of that interview desk. I wanted someone young who I could train, but who had enough knowledge to do something out of the gate... much lower standards than I was used to fulfilling for myself. But by then, the work ethic had changed... everyone I interviewed was more interested in what I could do for them than what they could do for me, half of them couldn't draw their way out of a brown paper bag, and the other half expected to make more than I did as owner.

That apparently has only gotten worse. I have a friend who in many ways is in worse physical shape than I am. He drives a forklift in a warehouse. The company has given him a more technical position that he can manage to do consistently in return for his decades of hard work, but once in a while he will get pulled off that cushy job to run production again for a day or two. Despite the fact that he is about the same age as me, has two bad knees, is et up with arthritis, has shoulder problems, and has to watch his back to make sure it doesn't go out on him, he still typically pulls more than double the freight of the 20-something, healthy drivers!

His boss has told him why he does that: specifically to shame the newer generation when a guy over twice their age, riddled with health problems, can do twice the work they do.

Ethics is a two-way street. If the employer has no ethics (and yes, i have worked for a few of those... not very long of course) the employees will have no work ethics. If the employees have no work ethics, the employer will have no ethics. Today, it seems people get a job and expect their employer to "prove" that they will treat them well before the new employee makes a half hearted attempt at actually doing the job they agreed to do. That's where the real problem is.

I know of one other person, just a little younger than me, who recently needed work and out of desperation took a job with a company that has a strong reputation of being total jerks. He had to hire on as a temp worker, which made it even worse; all temp agencies are complete jerks. He went in and did his job, every day, without fail. After a while, the company approached him and offered to hire him on directly. Later, when he needed extra time off for a legitimate family health emergency, they gave it without question. Turns out, that job may be hot, hard, and physical, but the company does what they can for their employees... they just have had so many bad employees hire on who didn't want to do their jobs, they went to a temp agency and they treat all temps as though they are problems... until the few ones that are not problems prove themselves.

And their reputation lives on even today. That's the result of people wanting a job but not wanting to work.

Am I sorry I held to my work ethics through thick and thin? Not for one microsecond. I can sleep well at night, knowing that I was a good worker, and that disability check I am now on is not undeserved.

TheRedneck

Its hard to care to work hard for a company when you see them turning large profits and paying executives 10-20x your wage while constantly reminding you how replacable you are.

Why should employees care about employers that would fire them in a heartbeat if it meant a bigger profit.

People are tired of giving everything they have to their company and then being layed off, replaced overseas, and given hardly any raises.

Ive seen it happen to many people. They give their life to a company for 20 years and the company boots them before they can retire properly.

Kids are waking up to the reality that they should treat employers like they treat them.

we've printed and kicked the can so far down the road its hit a wall and bounced back to hit society in the face so the young will be learning a new work ethic soon enough if they want to survive..

our current society in the west is under pinned by cheap labour (socialist or capitalist leaning) all rely on forms of wealth distribution rather than wealth creation, there is nowhere to advance in this society, nor space for any real innovation..

when viewed through that lens its easy to see we have tipped over the cliff and when it hits bottom then the young will create their own work ethic. it'll be our sink or swim moment..

There's still work ethic. I was raised with a strong work ethic, the big question as I've gotten older is simple. Is this company and job deserving of my best effort? If they're going too treat me like dirt and walk all over me then they're going too get the bare minimum until I find another job. On the other hand, if it's like how my current boss is, and I'm seen as a human and they take time too get too know me and want success for all their employees..... well those kind of employers will get 110 % out of me every day.

If you work, THEY will let you.

It still there just depends on the employer more often then not, one job I worked at for a couple of years had one of hell of a high turn over rate due to low pay an crappy working conditions. Reason why I stayed so long was that it was easy, an being paid decent at the time with the last hour being absolute chaos everyday, but as long it got done, no problems all cause I would put up with it.

My next place of employment was great but kind of ridiculous, due to not having no knife policy in the shop for insurance reasons.. When knifees were needed to do some job, but was left with safety scissors basically. After that worked for a small business owner, wasn’t a bad job, fairly easy, just the commute had problems. Basically could get to work easily in fifteen min or less but in the afternoon rush, traffic would grid lock, and I would be in traffic for an easy hour or longer, and he wouldn’t let me start a little earlier to leave earlier when usually it less then minutes to determine if I got back home in fifteen or deal traffic for a whole hour, said I should suffer like everyone else(meh) an we just didn’t meet eye to eye so he let me go.

My current place of employment is or was the best job I’ve had, it’s great but they aren’t making things easier, or are more less fixing what ain’t broken, and bringing something new an improved that keeps breaking.

Not so much working harder as it is smarter, something some employers should remember from time to time, not the micro, squeeze every cent out of them smarter. Usually that ends up costing a lot more.

a reply to: Proto88

I worked in a sector of IT for a very large company.
They totally took advantage of anyone they could.

I had to go out on a long medical leave. I found out they were not having someone perform my work but instead piling it up, yes for months and months. Little did they know I wasn't coming back.
Little did they know I created systems and databases that only I knew how to work (Evil nerd laugh). Boy did I get the last laugh. For example, nobody in my department knew how to use Access, so that's all I used instead of excel. Also I had formed years long relationships with other departments, so when I needed something I knew key people to call.

I was doing the work of at least three people and if they had given me any help like I asked many times, they wouldn't have been screwed over. They tried calling me when I left but I never answered. I did keep in touch with a few colleagues after, to hear about the meltdown. Eventually two other super hard workers also left and gutted that place, total Karma. Years later we still laugh about it. I totally burnt that bridge, but luckily I had zero issues getting another job when I was ready to go back.

The next place I worked, I saved the company millions, actual hard on paper provable millions. I got nothing in return, but my boss did. She was ready to cry when I left. The plus side to that gig is it was peaceful, easy and I could pick any hours of the day or night that I wanted to work. In the end the pay wasn't worth it so I left. To me free time with my family was more valuable. I am fortunate that I have that choice.

If I were to teach young people one thing, it's to know your worth. That doesn't mean you don't have to start at the bottom and work up.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Did my best at every company I have ever worked for. My longest stint had me working four peoples jobs for about a dollar extra than average. I had to ask for every raise and each time it was .25 hour increase. I used my benefits to get my back fixed, left, and they shut down.

I still work my hardest as that was how I was raised. I've never seen anything aside from kissing @$$ or knowing someone actually pat off, though. To be fair, I have always worked blue collar jobs that don't require much in the way of know how, so it may be different in other sectors.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I can believe that, specially when it comes to over managed by ghosts or mega companies, and money ain’t nothing but g thing except for salaries, or budget review kicks in.

Do the bare minimum & make the most free time for yourself. Employers will always take the most from you & give the least .
Be frugal , save your cash & retire early .
Owe nothing to anyone… I would rather suffer not having material things than suffer a job for all the never ending new garbage people think they need.

a reply to: CptGreenTea

Kids are waking up to the reality that they should treat employers like they treat them.

That's the very reason you see Starbucks employees unionizing.

Collective bargaining works!

Union proud, Union Strong

i can't remember the number of concerts and festivities/holidays i gave up so some of my crew could go.
i would trade for a slow day. i don't even think i took a sick day.

but i was appreciated and the boss.

we had a schedule and kept to it if i could bend it i usually would.
if it got slow, i'd ask who wants to go.

very rarely did i have to say, i'll have you training your replacement tomorrow!

but this was decades ago, now i don't know how strong the ethic is.

originally posted by: BaseHead
Do the bare minimum & make the most free time for yourself. Employers will always take the most from you & give the least .
Be frugal , save your cash & retire early .
Owe nothing to anyone… I would rather suffer not having material things than suffer a job for all the never ending new garbage people think they need.

This!!! ^^^^^^ Exactly what I did. I retired for good on my 55th birthday. Took a 45% hit on my pay, but I live within my means. What I do have I enjoy. I'm not interested in buying a bunch of expensive toys. My mental health is better now, and I'm grateful for everything I have. The stress from having a job where I was regularly bullied and gaslighted was an absolute nightmare. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Mantiss2021

Until I realized that I could get the same treatment, for better pay, more employment security, plus health and pension benefits by switching to the public sector.

And I got to top it all off with a big heaping scoop of disdain, derision, and disrespect from the public I was working hard to serve.

And then, like a victim of Stockholm Syndrome, I went back into the private sector to try to apply what I had learned over 20+ years "in the system" to help people face off against the tax system.

Only to be used by my new employer to try to sell their customers useless "products" essentially the same as they could get, for Free!, from the state and federal government.

When COVID19 became a pandemic, it gave me just the "push" I needed to say "Chuck it All" and good riddance to the working life.

Best. Decision. Ever.

Sounds like you picked the wrong profession from the get go...lol

I'm not a big fan of Goverment civilian jobs outside of a few areas as they typically allow apathy with a mix of Nepotism with no real need for production or quality. I got so many stories of people that suck big time that just can not be fired unless they kill someone who basically do nothing all day. One guy would sleep at his desk, untouchable.

All this could easily lead to hard workers being over looked as promotions are typically based on time and not performance. Better click for free papers on business ethics. Run into a crappy employer, or maybe in your profession that is the typical play of most of those businesses, who knows. In any case enjoy your retirement, I got like 3 years.

Government civilian jobs have only one disadvantage - that of small wages. Or maybe I'm misinformed, but my mother tells me to avoid this field and hire only at private companies. I bet the employee's productivity depends directly on the remuneration, that's all. I wouldn't even be retired with good work conditions and business ethics.

My retirement date is 4 1 2023 I've told the company and they have already begun discussions on contracting afterwards. I said 3 days a week Tues-Thurs. They said no and asked for 40 hours. I told them the money I want for 40 hours and they said no. At this point I'm done with discussions until it's 3 days or mo $$$$$. I don't want to work 40 hours anymore. 24 maybe.

originally posted by: mikell
My retirement date is 4 1 2023 I've told the company and they have already begun discussions on contracting afterwards. I said 3 days a week Tues-Thurs. They said no and asked for 40 hours. I told them the money I want for 40 hours and they said no. At this point I'm done with discussions until it's 3 days or mo $$$$$. I don't want to work 40 hours anymore. 24 maybe.

Have you worked for this company for a long time? That unlocks more options in your favor the longer your tenure.

originally posted by: RonaldBrister

Government civilian jobs have only one disadvantage - that of small wages. Or maybe I'm misinformed, but my mother tells me to avoid this field and hire only at private companies. I bet the employee's productivity depends directly on the remuneration, that's all. I wouldn't even be retired with good work conditions and business ethics.

I'm not sure what you see as low wages. You do work towards a retirement and you get a crapload of days off and PTO with a lot of other benefits like medical with a Goverment job. It really depends on the position as to whether it is worth it or not. As to remuneration, the whole package is important, but base pay doesn't equate to productivity as in of you are making 60k a year and the guy next to you is making 75k doing the same job they are not producing anymore than you and could easily produce a lot less than you. Pay and benefits does directly relate to retention as in a person will not look for another job if they feel they are adequately being compensated compared to the same field in other companies. So if you are making 80k in one job and another company is paying 100k for basically the same job a person might move on, but there are a lot more parts to that too like where will you live, cost of living, whether you like your job already, or not etc...

originally posted by: ChiefD

This!!! ^^^^^^ Exactly what I did. I retired for good on my 55th birthday. Took a 45% hit on my pay, but I live within my means. What I do have I enjoy. I'm not interested in buying a bunch of expensive toys. My mental health is better now, and I'm grateful for everything I have. The stress from having a job where I was regularly bullied and gaslighted was an absolute nightmare. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

It really depends on the job though. I get up and put on shorts and I'm working within 5 mins of getting coffee. I typically work from 8 to like 2 then head to the gym and maybe do some other stuff then back home for a quick look at emails. Low stress and I'm in a position the company would be hard to replace me. At 62 people ask me when will I retire and I say why? I still have 2 kids in college (started late in life) and my retirement state is not where I'm at right now, so 3 more years until my kids are all done then I'll move and most likely retire at that point to travel more.

Now compare that to a person that was at a party I had and they were also 62, went to work at 4 AM for the last 40 years and does a good deal of manual labor still... Now that guy is ready to retire...lol