Christian Ideas Of Justice

a reply to: ketsuko

I don't think that Jesus expected people not to defend themselves. The New Testament gave us stuff like: Luke 22:36 KJV "Then said he unto them, but now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." or Luke 12:39 KJV "But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into."

I am questioning some people's rights to call themselves Christians rather than the right to self-defense.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: olaru12
I'm old school as in Old Testament Christianity; Where you can sell your daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
I wonder what the going price for daughters is in todays market.

and violence is SOP.

So you are Jewish, can’t be Old Testament and christian that is the Jewish faiths book, practices
And teachings

it was sarcasm...

No, I was raised Southern Baptist but saw early on that organized religion was what the pastor wanted it to be. Usually centered around the passing of the collection plate. The Bible was picked apart to fit an agenda, targeting the type of people that attended the services.

However, I did enjoy Jim and Tammy Baker before their fall from grace.

If I ever decide to return to the fold, it will probably be Catholicism. I had a semi religious experience when I lived at the base of Guadalupe Mesa.

a reply to: olaru12

Sorry, missed the sarcasm
As for organised religion and its adherents, you are wise to leave but, to go Catholic, thats a more organised religion than most protestant churches
Faith is in Jesus, not southern baptists, butchers, bakers or catholics
as for the "experience" Mormons have a "burning of the bosom", evidently thats a religious experience
Not that I advocate putting your faith in religious experiences either
Again, faith is in Jesus, if it ever catches your mind, just Him, just pray, just ask

Not unlike yourself, I accept that churches are run by fallibles, that organisations are greedy, men, for the most are, well they sell what they think will best help themselves

As for the parent question, Jesus commanded His followers to love not harm

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SeaWorthy

I'm of the opinion that if I am walking along like the elderly man and minding my own business and someone decides to smack me with a traffic cone, then I should be allowed to defend myself enough to make then stop.

I agree.

Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12;14

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SeaWorthy

I'm of the opinion that if I am walking along like the elderly man and minding my own business and someone decides to smack me with a traffic cone, then I should be allowed to defend myself enough to make then stop.

That is a concept shared in British law, the idea of REASONABLE force which means you can fight them off but not then take revenge as the representative of the law then has to take over be that a court bailiff or a police officer.

And it shows how the Bible actually helped to moderate the law.

It is not the ideal Christian model but is still far more lenient than most other systems around the world as a result, for example in the US they in some states have the right to use Unreasonable force, a trespasser may be shot for example while in the UK we are not allowed to harm them except and only if we are in danger ourselves and can prove we are or where, we are allowed by law to use up to lethal force but only if we feel and can prove we had reason to feel that our own life or the life of others was in imminent danger at the time.

But of course it is not the bible it is just how we may react.

In a sense people have the freedom to commit crimes and wickedness. You are there right now in your chair or whatever and you can go outside and shoot people passing by. You aren't free by law, you will become punished for the freedom you took when they catch you, but the freedom to do so was there. Do you see my point. In that sense a repressive government wouldn't be that bad at all to protect civilians.

Some dangerous people are imprisoned, so this is in a sense the repressive government at work.

We have Putin in leadership making war and killing hundreds of civilians but that seems to be a different issue. Daily wars are fought. A lot of men are men of war. It pays money and I figure some people like doing what they do.

So my point is repressive governments are already established in a good way and in a bad way.

The only thing left for humans to be is good and make every effort to live in peace with everyone no matter how evil this world is.

Not one is perfect, everyone is a sinner and we can all fall off the Jesus wagon on occasion. At that point we can only pray for forgiveness and repent to the best of our flawed ability as mortal humans. Knowing about sin, feeling remorse for giving in to it and trying to repent will bring you closer to the Lord.

Fear of loss, as in your possessions or your very life, is what motivates people to be vengeful and use force. Because our mortal bodies will expire eventually, the soul is what becomes important. If you believe you are truly saved then your eternal soul is at no risk and your mortality is in the hands of the Lord for his purposes, not your own.

a reply to: MeatHookReality

Paul said we are to submit to our governing authorities in Romans 13, and he said this under the reign of one of the most wicked Roman Emperors in history: Nero. The only time we are to rebel against the governing body is if they directly tell us to do something against God’s Word, such as Daniel in the lion’s den or 1st century Christians refusing Caesar worship.

Well, technically Christianity kind does base itself under the Golden Rule, or Judge not less ye be Judged. Judaism an other mythologies tend to make it about irony, and it being a constant struggle of man vs nature. While the bible says ye all be Gods just because of self awareness.

Makes me think of the story of Jesus being tried thanks to Judas, and that the roaring angry local mob, had to pick ether Jesus or a convicted murderer, to be crucified for the Passover. Murderer got set free, Jesus was punished by his own people, Rome killed him, and everyone praised the Hebrew God.

Later, Judas hanged himself, the murderer no body cared about probably got murdered(there parable about vengeance), Jesus punished his people after Rome destroyed an ransack Jeurasalem, and Rome kissed his ass after Pompei, which rumbled and his dark clouds more then Mount Sinai.

And every idiot praising an tempting the Hebrew God all over again.

a reply to: Proto88

The Golden Rule is “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.