Christian Ideas Of Justice

This question is for anyone who practices Christian religion from Orthodoxy , Roman Catholicism , Evangelical, Protestantism , Anglican or Evangelical Free non-denominational . I would believe that list to cover most all Christians under the Nicene Creed.

My question is this : If you as a Christian believe that your country & it’s leadership have become repressive, does that justify violence & death to the repressers . Or would you be passive ?
Please state your reasons for fighting fire with fire or being compliant , as well as your Biblical support of what way you chose…Physical Fighting or the Passive ?

With the crazy division of the left & right today , I find this to be an interesting question to ask members here ? What are your thoughts ?

Hi there, friend.
You raise some wonderful questions and it is a subject that will run the whole spectrum from Christian’s that choose to engage.
So I’ll give it a shot from my own personal understanding.
In a time of war, there have always been conscientious objectors. And I honestly get that.
Maybe a poor example, but Winston Churchill was an example on the other side of the coin that had the prescience to recognise Hitler was building a war machine when no one else wanted to consider it because of numerous reasons.
History tells us that humanity goes through cyclical periods. Dictators come and go, oppressors come and go, chancers come and go. They occupy the full spectrum of political, social and religious ideology.
People need a cause, a leader, a shepherd to rally round when things are tough or a scapegoat for their decline is needed.

I’ve had to think long and hard about this issue over the last 2/3 years, particularly when government forcibly mandated shutdown of churches based on fear of…a certain disease. I remember how ‘established’ churches during lockdown were shut over the Easter/Passover period.
Please try and consider deeply in your own minds the message being sent by ‘the church’ to the rest of the world during the period we celebrate Christs’ triumph and victory over sin and death, by shutting down buildings, contact and fellowship because’We’re afraid of death’ 🤦🏻
We are not supposed to conform to the likeness of the world, but the ‘official/religious church’ has no moral compass and no idea of What’s m it is accountable.
It desires to be acknowledged and valued by the world, and so it will throw away it’s foundation stones for the sake of being recognised by a world based on post modernism where moralism is a relative construct and truth is subjective.
This is where the established church finds itself now.
It no longer holds any values, but seeks to relate to no people on their own terms, not Christs’. The modern day church is a whore.

The other issue regards an understanding of Romans 13. Obedience to authority figures over us.
I’ll go into this later, but I’d rather get some feedback first. 👍🏻
a reply to: MeatHookReality

a reply to: MeatHookReality

We are only human BUT if we were to try to emulate the apostles we would do as Jesus told us and turn the other cheek, we would accept our rulers whom are almost always rotter's even today and pray for them and for God to make then do what was right.

Christian justice is about Forgiveness and REPENTENCE and failing this latter it is then about GOD dealing with the unrepentant the way he has warned them he shall.

There is always a price to be paid and that goes for Christianity and for the Old Testament, the difference is not a difference at all but rather it is a fulfilment the paying of that price by Jesus whom suffered in our stead.

As a Christian we recognize that every single one of us is guilty, we are born in the sin of this world and yet GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son as a sacrifice to take our place upon the cross and to cover our debt of sin with his precious blood.

In the modern CHRISTIAN INSPIRED (Not the same thing) World of the west before it went all woke on us Punishment under the law was supposed to serve two purposes, the REFORM of the offender and the keeping safe of the rest of Society from the offenders actions.

For the longest time however it was even less Christian and punishment was about punishment nothing more because remember the law was never really meant to serve you or me but to keep us in our place so that government could rule over us and so that rulers do pretty much what they wanted with or to us.

Remember the ruling elite are seldom Christian even if they pay lip service to it.

As a Christian the hardest thing is often forgiving those that have done you wrong and also like many Christians I have not been strong enough to stand there and take it without striking back.

That said this is how we are SUPPOSED to live.

18If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the Lord.” 20On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head.”

That last part about the burning coals is if the one that has done wrong to you yet you have forgiven him then remains unrepentant and evil, the most important forgiveness to find is God's Forgiveness for when we do wrong against anyone we are wronging GOD.

a reply to: MeatHookReality

God have many times used bad people in governing positions to further his plans, he has everything in control
we are ordered to put on our armor for this war and let him take care of it.

Deuteronomy 32:35
New King James Version
35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’


Ephesians 6:10-18
New International Version
The Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

a reply to: MeatHookReality

If all Christians were a monolith, you could answer that, but I don't think that's the case. There are some who claim to be Christian, but are advocating for late term abortion. Killing a human is a bad thing regardless, but some have no issues with it. in War, it's necessary to detach your feelings from the duty, or you will be killed by the opposing side due to them being able to detach their feelings. Not everyone can do that, even if they aren't Christian.

But taking a life is not something that should ever be easy, and all other options should be exhausted first. (IMHO)

why do you seem to place all Christians in such an easy to use basket? there are all kinds of Christians, to include good one's and bad one's. Just as other Faiths have varying degrees of good followers.

The answer pretty clear here

Romans 12:17-19
New King James Version
17 Repay no one evil for evil. Have[a] regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

Is it vengeance to defend yourself though?

I've heard the expression, "Love the sinner, but not the sin." It makes me wonder, if we hate the sin, shouldn't we also hate Adam and Eve for the original sin? What about Cain the first murderer and all the fallen angels including Lucifer? These are the ones who brought sin into the world, it's hard to not hate them for it, much less love them and ignore what they had done to all mankind. It's hard to love the enemy and as far as self defense goes, unless you had a method that causes your enemy to love you back, it's on them to make such a choice and you are left defenseless.

Personally, I'd just as soon dispatch them as quickly as possible to meet with the Lord and have him deal with the eternal consequences of their sins. Otherwise you might be able to live up to the gold standards of Christianity if you imprison them until they confess and repent or die a natural death. Sounds kind of like the Spanish Inquisition though. I guess we'll be damned if we do and blessed if we don't and if that means getting nailed to a cross and killed, well the reward is in heaven waiting for us.

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

Love the sinner. Adam and Eve were sinners. The choice to disobey God was the sin. Hate the action, not the actors.

Matthew 5:43-48 King James Version

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

I'm old school as in Old Testament Christianity; Where you can sell your daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
I wonder what the going price for daughters is in todays market.

and violence is SOP.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: MeatHookReality

If all Christians were a monolith, you could answer that, but I don't think that's the case. There are some who claim to be Christian, but are advocating for late term abortion. Killing a human is a bad thing regardless, but some have no issues with it. in War, it's necessary to detach your feelings from the duty, or you will be killed by the opposing side due to them being able to detach their feelings. Not everyone can do that, even if they aren't Christian.

But taking a life is not something that should ever be easy, and all other options should be exhausted first. (IMHO)

why do you seem to place all Christians in such an easy to use basket? there are all kinds of Christians, to include good one's and bad one's. Just as other Faiths have varying degrees of good followers.

I placed no one in any lump basket . It is a simple question. Fight with force or Passive tactics.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
a reply to: MeatHookReality

God have many times used bad people in governing positions to further his plans, he has everything in control
we are ordered to put on our armor for this war and let him take care of it.

Deuteronomy 32:35
New King James Version
35 Vengeance is Mine, and recompense;
Their foot shall slip in due time;
For the day of their calamity is at hand,
And the things to come hasten upon them.’


Ephesians 6:10-18
New International Version
The Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.

So your take is that violence is ok as a Christian ? Thats all Im asking. Fight or Passive

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: MeatHookReality

We are only human BUT if we were to try to emulate the apostles we would do as Jesus told us and turn the other cheek, we would accept our rulers whom are almost always rotter's even today and pray for them and for God to make then do what was right.

Christian justice is about Forgiveness and REPENTENCE and failing this latter it is then about GOD dealing with the unrepentant the way he has warned them he shall.

There is always a price to be paid and that goes for Christianity and for the Old Testament, the difference is not a difference at all but rather it is a fulfilment the paying of that price by Jesus whom suffered in our stead.

As a Christian we recognize that every single one of us is guilty, we are born in the sin of this world and yet GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son as a sacrifice to take our place upon the cross and to cover our debt of sin with his precious blood.

In the modern CHRISTIAN INSPIRED (Not the same thing) World of the west before it went all woke on us Punishment under the law was supposed to serve two purposes, the REFORM of the offender and the keeping safe of the rest of Society from the offenders actions.

For the longest time however it was even less Christian and punishment was about punishment nothing more because remember the law was never really meant to serve you or me but to keep us in our place so that government could rule over us and so that rulers do pretty much what they wanted with or to us.

Remember the ruling elite are seldom Christian even if they pay lip service to it.

As a Christian the hardest thing is often forgiving those that have done you wrong and also like many Christians I have not been strong enough to stand there and take it without striking back.

That said this is how we are SUPPOSED to live.

18If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says the Lord.” 20On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head.”

That last part about the burning coals is if the one that has done wrong to you yet you have forgiven him then remains unrepentant and evil, the most important forgiveness to find is God's Forgiveness for when we do wrong against anyone we are wronging GOD.

It seems to me that you understand what Jesus taught & those teachings are of passive behavior. Never harm or kill others, but accept martyrdom over violence.

originally posted by: Lucius Driftwood
Hi there, friend.
You raise some wonderful questions and it is a subject that will run the whole spectrum from Christian’s that choose to engage.
So I’ll give it a shot from my own personal understanding.
In a time of war, there have always been conscientious objectors. And I honestly get that.
Maybe a poor example, but Winston Churchill was an example on the other side of the coin that had the prescience to recognise Hitler was building a war machine when no one else wanted to consider it because of numerous reasons.
History tells us that humanity goes through cyclical periods. Dictators come and go, oppressors come and go, chancers come and go. They occupy the full spectrum of political, social and religious ideology.
People need a cause, a leader, a shepherd to rally round when things are tough or a scapegoat for their decline is needed.

I’ve had to think long and hard about this issue over the last 2/3 years, particularly when government forcibly mandated shutdown of churches based on fear of…a certain disease. I remember how ‘established’ churches during lockdown were shut over the Easter/Passover period.
Please try and consider deeply in your own minds the message being sent by ‘the church’ to the rest of the world during the period we celebrate Christs’ triumph and victory over sin and death, by shutting down buildings, contact and fellowship because’We’re afraid of death’ 🤦🏻
We are not supposed to conform to the likeness of the world, but the ‘official/religious church’ has no moral compass and no idea of What’s m it is accountable.
It desires to be acknowledged and valued by the world, and so it will throw away it’s foundation stones for the sake of being recognised by a world based on post modernism where moralism is a relative construct and truth is subjective.
This is where the established church finds itself now.
It no longer holds any values, but seeks to relate to no people on their own terms, not Christs’. The modern day church is a whore.

The other issue regards an understanding of Romans 13. Obedience to authority figures over us.
I’ll go into this later, but I’d rather get some feedback first. 👍🏻
a reply to: MeatHookReality

We are to submit to even the worse of our leaders . This is a huge tenant of Christ’s teachings, yet so many people who are very conservative & Christian by faith sure call for violence as a way to stop evil . We are called to turn from evil , violence & revenge by Christ’s teachings. There are many people here on ATS that quote the bible , talk about Jesus etc… but then they will post things about taking back America with force , hangings , revenge etc..
The hypocrisy is at times mind boggling.
The only thing that gets me riled up into any thoughts of eye for an eye is when children are being abused or destroyed, yet calling for violence against those monsters is wrong under the teachings of Christ.
No one has the right to destroy a life for any reason including abortion as birth control.
It has been my 50 plus years observations that most Christians pick & choose what they want from the bible or use the OT as proof that vengeance is ok as long as it’s God’s enemy you are killing & that is so misplaced for a devotee of Christ .

a reply to: MeatHookReality

The hypocrisy is at times mind boggling.

The hypocrisy is what made me leave organized Christianity. I come from a family of Baptists and regularly attended church until my 30s. I saw very few people who were actually living or even trying to do, as the scriptures say. I learned what it meant to be a Christian from my great-grandparents. They both worked hard, earned decent combined incomes, but lived very modestly. My great grandmother spent much of her free time and their money doing things like making two hundred hoagies at a time a few times a week, which she would take to the church for any of the hungry people in the area to come and eat. In the church, there was no judgement of the people who came to eat, and there weren't any strings attached either. No proselytization or being forced to hear the Gospel before being allowed to eat. The attitude was "Are you hungry? Come eat. We don't care who you are or what you've done. Just eat and then leave if that is what you'd like to do" They would speak the word of God and pray with any who sought it, but it wasn't required to eat.

For only one reason, it'd be hard for me to get back to a closer relationship with Christ. I am no longer big on forgiveness. Especially when it comes to violent criminals. I wish for the harshest of penalties for all but trivial crimes. 

a reply to: tamusan

Nothing there rules out self defense though.

originally posted by: olaru12
I'm old school as in Old Testament Christianity; Where you can sell your daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7.
I wonder what the going price for daughters is in todays market.

and violence is SOP.

So you are Jewish, can’t be Old Testament and christian that is the Jewish faiths book, practices
And teachings

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: SeaWorthy

Is it vengeance to defend yourself though?

I don't think so but choosing to not do something with the fact in mind that the body is nothing I guess there is a choice to make ahead of time!

18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

a reply to: SeaWorthy

I'm of the opinion that if I am walking along like the elderly man and minding my own business and someone decides to smack me with a traffic cone, then I should be allowed to defend myself enough to make then stop.