Ghoulish Battle Over Possible Political Motivation of July 4 Shooter Begins

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: olaru12
Didn't take long for even this thread to turn political and finger pointing.

Some people are incapable of processing nuance, they live with an overly simplistic world view that doesn't permit them to analyze things critically, including their own behavior.

Yes, we probably couldn't even get past inventing the wheel, if we were incapable of thinking..outside the box..pun intended!!

a reply to: projectvxn

Every damn shooting is used as a pulpit for further erosion of the 2nd.

Just like J6 was used to erode the 4th

Just like metoo, cancel culture and every other hot button issue is used to erode the 1st.

I can go on but you get it.

By and large those erosions come from a certain "side."

I get it though, its gross to do and most want no part in it. That doesnt change the reality however and certainly doesnt stop a side from doing it.

a reply to: JinMI

I'm not asking people to not have those discussions.

I am asking people to at least try to have a more complete picture before assigning blame.

You will find that I often don't comment on things until they are well passed the breaking news cycle. Because agendas are always at the forefront and I hate being lied to no matter who is doing it.

I get passionate too. I'm not preaching from a position of moral superiority. I just think we should at least wait until we actually know something before we indict a huge percentage of the country for the crime of one deranged individual.

a reply to: projectvxn

The term "ghoulish" is so apt, too. I think most of us can be in danger of exhibiting ghoulish behavior, particularly the way we've set up and fed our media.
A ghoul is a creature said to feed off of or rob the dead. It's definitely worth contemplating as a society, imo.

a reply to: zosimov

We all get passionate about the topics we care about.

I've fought everyone in the room, so to speak.

But I bet I can find common ground with most people given enough time.

I think I've learned my lesson on indicting too many people with # they didn't do. I say that with a number of caveats, of course, because standards aren't what we say they are, standards are what we tolerate.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: TomLawless
a reply to: SleeperHasAwakened

This is a fantastic summary of my thoughts on the matter.

Another thing that's different from the 80's is the internet. Take people teetering on the brink and combine that with the combustible rhetoric online, and it's total powder keg.

The fact that there are fewer firearms per capita now than in the 80's is objective data that should not be ignored.

No offense intended here, but you might want to take a second look at the "objective data" (the 1980 statistic is 67 million guns owned. Gun ownership has declined but the overall number of guns has increased.

Hi Byrd,

You seem like a pretty bright gal; keen enough to understand the term 'per capita'. Also keen enough to interpret the data to distinguish between the net total guns in circulation, and how those firearms are distributed among the population.

The percentage of U.S. households owning a firearm has dropped, by around 5%, since its peak in the 1980s.



So, as Twain said about "lies, damn lies and statistics", citing the net increase in the number of guns, without qualifying "to whom" those firearms have accrued, is a big disingenuous.

The data says, unequivocally, that if you pick a random U.S. household, you are LESS LIKELY in 2022 than in say 1985, to find a firearm there. The logical interpretation: fewer households own most of the firearms.

We can both argue how "fewer households owning more firearms" now vs 1980, is an important factor, or an orthogonal detail, impacting gun violence. But we should both agree on the meaning of statistical information, i.e. the ratio of guns to people, the % of U.S. households owning a firearm, is smaller now than it was in the past.

a reply to: projectvxn

We always look for "Why" it happened.

When a loved one dies, we scream at God and ask, "WHY!???"

When a tragedy happens, we ask why.

How could it have happened.

What can we do to not make it happen again.

We guess, we speculate, but why does anyone ever do anything evil?

a reply to: projectvxn

He was clearly anti-Trump. Those two pictures of him in Trump garb and at the Trump rally were stillshots that have endless captions. In reality, he was mocking Trump supporters, I still remember the Waldo one, he was there to stir trouble.

The reason people are arguing over whose side he's on is because we always hear that these shooters are right wingers, when in reality they're not, so it's more or less calling out the hypocrisy of the left.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: IAMTAT
TBF...One of the first things people always try to figure out (police included)...is WHAT was the motivation for any senseless crime or tragedy?

The three nearly completely aligned characteristics for mass shooters are: physical/mental abuse as a child, real or perceived grievances and a desire to emulate other mass shooters for notoriety. That's it.

They are almost never politically motivated nor have a clearly defined political stance. They are sick people looking to kill innocent people for fun.

Yet they target people celebrating the Fourth of July, or people at a country concert, or Republicans at baseball practice, or gays at a nightclub, or people at church... The only time I don't see a political affiliation or motive is when it comes to shooting kids at a school or the guy who killed those people at the movie theater.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: shooterbrody

I'm well aware of everyone's need to use this shooting and many others for political gain.

That's literally the point of this thread.

Didn't take long for even this thread to turn political and finger pointing.

That's because every time it's a lefty who does the shooting, everyone is so quick to throw the story to the back or blame mental illness. Had this been an Asian massage parlor, Planned Parenthood, or black church, we'd hear about it until the elections were over. Since it was just some people celebrating America's victory and freedom, suddenly it was just a crazy guy.

originally posted by: LSU2018
Yet they target people celebrating the Fourth of July, or people at a country concert, or Republicans at baseball practice, or gays at a nightclub, or people at church... The only time I don't see a political affiliation or motive is when it comes to shooting kids at a school or the guy who killed those people at the movie theater.

Nearly every mass shooter has no discernable political affiliation or stance. That's the reality and I'm sure this guy, who killed a bunch of people on July 4th who live in a very liberal community, will be the same.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: LSU2018
Yet they target people celebrating the Fourth of July, or people at a country concert, or Republicans at baseball practice, or gays at a nightclub, or people at church... The only time I don't see a political affiliation or motive is when it comes to shooting kids at a school or the guy who killed those people at the movie theater.

Nearly every mass shooter has no discernable political affiliation or stance. That's the reality and I'm sure this guy, who killed a bunch of people on July 4th who live in a very liberal community, will be the same.

That's not reality, but you're free to see it that way.

a reply to: projectvxn

Sure, its reasonable and i think most try to their extent, outside of some obvious political hacks.

Point being, the inevitable cudgel will swing and rarely, if ever, is it a fix or a solution coming from leaders, political ones.

originally posted by: LSU2018
That's not reality, but you're free to see it that way.

Yeah, actually it is. With a very few exceptions they have no political affiliation or stance.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: IAMTAT
TBF...One of the first things people always try to figure out (police included)...is WHAT was the motivation for any senseless crime or tragedy?

The three nearly completely aligned characteristics for mass shooters are: physical/mental abuse as a child, real or perceived grievances and a desire to emulate other mass shooters for notoriety. That's it.

You left out the biggest one: drugged up by their schools.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Gus, it doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. It's optics.

It's memes.


Many are just doing what the left has done for decades.

We're anti-women, anti-gay, anti-trans, anti-"democracy".



We're deplorable insurrectionists that are white nationalists if we put out the American flag, we're racists, even those of us that are brown or black.

But to see the hysteria over calling this evil little worm a leftist is amusing.

Makes me want to go to a Senate softball game with Bernie Bro's.

It always seemed strange to me that never in school are there any courses on how to raise children.

Let’s face it most of the madness going about has a microcosmic cause (parents, and raising of the child)
and a societal or macro cause, the influence of the culture.

Micro and macro-America is kind of messed up.

The only thing that makes this bearable is the huge population, so the right-wing can pretend it’s not about rampant guns and the left-wing can pretend it’s not about rampant mental illness. Two truths and two falsehoods side by side so nothing changes, it only gets worse.

But that can change when they start killing 100s and 1000s or, more at a time... God forbid.

originally posted by: tanstaafl
You left out the biggest one: drugged up by their schools.

It isn't, I listed them.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Gus, it doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. It's optics.

I'm with Project on this, it does matter. People are ****ing gross with this stuff.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Gus, it doesn't matter. Facts don't matter. It's optics.

I'm with Project on this, it does matter. People are ****ing gross with this stuff.

I know.

And I get it.

But in the battle of ideologies, when only one side is fighting fair, they gonna lose.