A question for the masons

Jonestown is well-documented, and autopsies conducted by a local Doctor did not suggest death by Cyanide poisoning, via Kool Aid, as was illustrated by the American media.

Those people were gunned down systematically, because a Congressman had come to visit, because he correctly believed it to be atleast partially a CIA OPERATION.

As the congressman stepped off the plane, his armed guards stood and watched as men with machine guns started gunning down the newly arrived guests. Eyewitnesses describe these killers as 'looking through the men they were shooting', that is, with glazed over eyes, typical of hypnosis.

Surely these men (who did the killing and were witnessed) were among the dead at the final tally, and yet, the witnesses survived.

Hmm, useful in constructing a series of events, if you were an intelligence agency... And then, overshadow the death of the congressman entirely by massacring 900 of the formerly poorest bums from San Francisco, in the middle of the jungle, and tell people they did it willingly, with Kool Aid, of all things.

Oh what tangled webs we weave.
When we Practice (Practice, Practice) to Deceive.

Meaning, it is meant to look highly unplausible that many people were killed to cover for the death of one man. But then, Jonestown also had the added benefit of making ANY Christian look totally WACKO, as easy evidence was available against them, should they try to mention the benefits of the belief in God.

This, in effect, single-handedly kept Christians mouths shut for the 80s, so the double-fake Satanism scare could unfold.

And if you don't know what a double fake is, consider yourself lucky. The Intelligence Community has a lot of pride, in making people look like idiots.

Originally posted by akilles
Jonestown is well-documented, and autopsies conducted by a local Doctor did not suggest death by Cyanide poisoning, via Kool Aid, as was illustrated by the American media.

Those people were gunned down systematically, because a Congressman had come to visit, because he correctly believed it to be atleast partially a CIA OPERATION.

Right, it is well-docmented that the people who refused to drink the Kool-Aid were shot. Why is this a conspiracy? The order from Jones was for everyone to die, willingly or not.

Well, I actually live in New Zealand, and no, it is not a land of conspiracy.
i merely got onto the conspiracy buzz, because of the fact that, I was asked along to a mason meeting one night last year, and... to cut a long story short, someone left a cd rom ( like i have said before) on my doorstep, so i had a look at it, and it sort of blew me away with all the bs from David Icke, so then I delved into searching out who D.Icke was/is.
I spent 14 months researching the trials and tribulations of Mr Icke, read a few of his books, and maybe got a little carried away by the whole thing, but I have been sitting here watching the posts on here, and thought, that there must be some truth to it all, but I have been thinking also over the past couple of days, and my higher self says, that I haven't any right giving You guys BS remarks based on a couple of others theories.
I am a male of 36 years, who very often listens to the higher self, I am a man that plays a part in ritual as well, as I have been a practising solo witch and energy worker for the past 16 years. I make Ritual incenses, and write personal spells for peeople who wish to cast something a bit different in their lives.
I feel it may be time for me to just shut the F up and go research a littl more about what the true reality is with the Freemason Fraternity.
Please accept my humble apologies for bad mouthing you guys as a whole, as well as the singling out BS i have been posting.
I don't think I acted in a very positive way, and have certainly claimed a little karma for it.
I should know how it feels to be tarnished with BS crap from various aspects. as I have pretty much been in the limelight from a few people at work, because of what my beliefs are. I have also been in the firing line of getting the sack from a job I worked at when I was younger and more naive than I am now.
so, Senrak, Nygdan, Sebatwerk, The Axemen, and anyone else I have forgotten to name that I have bad mouthed in the past week or so.
I am sorry.
In Divine Light
In Divine Love
Blessed Be.
From tonight onwards I wish to sit and listen, and not speak out or jump at the throat of another without first reading the whole story.

AND NYGDAN, PLEASE DON'T EDIT THIS ONE.
In fact I think I had better delete all files and e books on my computer relating to the conspiracy crap, and get on with ny wiccan lifestyle like I was more than 14 months ago.
I miss the Spirit of the All.
May the Great Spirit watch over You all tonight.
( sheesh, I can Ramble on)

[edit on 16-4-2005 by Zystesxt9]

I can not do this anymore, I am a male witch, 36 years old, I play a part in rituals myself, i get crap from christians all the time, and I know how it feels when someone doesn't really know what the hell they are on about. When fear plays a part in thier lives, instead of experiencing it. I have just had six months worth of BS from some people at work, I dont feel it is necessary for myself to fling this crap at these guys.
Everyone has the option to be who ever they wish to be. It is not my job to do this.
It is my job to bless, and protect, and send energy, make incense. as that is what I know.
That is what makes me feel whole. I understand spirits, BUT< one thing I dont understand is, the fact that I have been watched for years by different higher forces and the like (ilk),
I have had three accounts of being visited by the M.I.B's, if you know who they are. and they aint just a stupid comedy with will smith. i have seen, witnessed, and experienced many things in this world, many things that most people believe is just plain old BS. I have understanding of many things, and many things still are, very alien to my-self. So you will have to accept my apologies for the fact that I can not keep living the lies.
I have knowledge of things that I cannot explain to the norm of people.
I am denying myself the true path of who I am.
Best of Luck.
I am still coming here to ATS as it excites me, more than repels the BS, because the norm of others that cant understand for the fact of anything, That there is more to ones life than to give BS to people You dont know.
I think I may go and have a look at other threads instead.
CIAO

Originally posted by Zystesxt9
so, Senrak, Nygdan, Sebatwerk, The Axemen, and anyone else I have forgotten to name that I have bad mouthed in the past week or so.
I am sorry.

Wow. I must admit I'm surprised and shocked, but humbly accept and offer my apologies for calling you a troll.

BTW, I have several friends who are practicing Wiccans. One has written quite a bit about witchcraft, wicca, and some various esoteric traditions. Send me a U2U if you like and I'll send his web-site.

AND NYGDAN, PLEASE DON'T EDIT THIS ONE.

Yeah! You've been spoiling some of our fun lately Nygdan!

Regards,

And keep in mind that I rather dislike smilies and stuff like that, so I must mean it when I write it!

( sheesh, I can Ramble on)

HA, I know the feeling!

AND NYGDAN, PLEASE DON'T EDIT THIS ONE.

Ok, I'll just delete it! Mwa hahahaha

But seriously, researching any of these things can result in getting obsessive over them, I think in either direction perhaps. But certainly, once you start looking for conspiracies, then you'd see them everywhere! And certainly, receiving a mysterty CD with 'warnings' on it can spur that!

I really hope you continue to post to ATS, we enjoy people who think critically!, in either direction!

Originally posted by Zystesxt9

so, Senrak, Nygdan, Sebatwerk, The Axemen, and anyone else I have forgotten to name that I have bad mouthed in the past week or so.
I am sorry.
In Divine Light
In Divine Love
Blessed Be.

Apology accepted.

Please accept mine as well, because as we all know this forum can get a bit heated at times and there are occasions when I let my mouth (or fingers, as it were heheh) get carried away.

It takes a big man to apologize and admit when he is wrong, and you have my respect for that.

Fiat Lvx

[edit on 4/16/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by Zystesxt9

so, Senrak, Nygdan, Sebatwerk, The Axemen, and anyone else I have forgotten to name that I have bad mouthed in the past week or so.
I am sorry.
In Divine Light
In Divine Love
Blessed Be.

Apology accepted.

Please accept mine as well, because as we all know this forum can get a bit heated at times and there are occasions when I let my mouth (or fingers, as it were heheh) get carried away.

It takes a big man to apologize and admit when he is wrong, and you have my respect for that.

Fiat Lvx

[edit on 4/16/05 by The Axeman]

"AXEMAN"
My thanks really goes 100% to you, for putting the picture drawn by Levi Eliphas, That took me back some years, I saw many moons ago, while I was researching withcraft, with that same description. It gave me an instant hit in the face sorta thang. So Thank You...
I guess I have been putting on the blinders myself, and not allowing myself to see the vision with true perspective glasses on.
To hell with conspiracy theories, it's time for me to get back into nature. And to accept people for who they are, not what they might be.


If your Ego is not your Amigo,
you know it stinks.

Zystesxt9

I voted you Way Above. You deserve it.

'Nuff said.

Originally posted by Trinityman
Zystesxt9

I voted you Way Above. You deserve it.

'Nuff said.

I would vote for Zystesxt9 for way above also, if I had any votes left. In any case, I, like Senrak, am a bit taken back by this sudden change of opinion. If it is sincere, I truly welcome you as a friend like all my other friends here on ATS. If you search is for the truth, I will be happy to discuss any subject with you for hours on end. And I, too, am sorry for slinging mud. I tend to take the claims you guys make very personally sometimes, and they offend me deeply. I too am guilty of ignorance from time to time.

Thanks for your honesty, brother. It means a lot to me!

Originally posted by Zystesxt9
"AXEMAN"
My thanks really goes 100% to you...

I am humbled. Especially when you consider the caliber of men I keep company with here.

Isn't it amazing how preconceptions and propaganda can cloud our "vision" so easily if we let them?



Here's to open-mindedness!

[edit on 4/16/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
they have made up their minds. Don't confuse them with facts.

Apparently not in all cases.

Oh and thanks for the EM, that was good stuff.

freemasonry is bad mmmkay!

Originally posted by slack
freemasonry is bad mmmkay!

So are trolls who do not back up their claims, mmmmkay?

Originally posted by slack
freemasonry is bad mmmkay!

Why do you think so, Slack, assuming you're not joking?

Break it down for me. Do you have reasons to believe that Freemasonry is bad, or are you just repeating what someone else said?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Originally posted by slack
freemasonry is bad mmmkay!

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT! Wrong.

But thanks for playing. Here's your consolation prize

(Visualize if you will a picture of Rice A Roni...the San Francisco treat here)

I'm very new to this, so please be patient. I have a couple questions for the masons on this board. First, why are known masons forbiden from partaking ing Holy Communion? Please do not say this is propaganda, because this is the offical Holy See's(vatican government) position. Secondly, if the freemasons are not a religious organization, why do the titles of the degrees of masonry contain wording from well acknowledged faiths? I ask these questions out of respect, and desire to be responded to in the same.

Originally posted by SonOfIsaac
I'm very new to this, so please be patient. I have a couple questions for the masons on this board. First, why are known masons forbiden from partaking ing Holy Communion? Please do not say this is propaganda, because this is the offical Holy See's(vatican government) position. Secondly, if the freemasons are not a religious organization, why do the titles of the degrees of masonry contain wording from well acknowledged faiths? I ask these questions out of respect, and desire to be responded to in the same.

Known masons are forbidden from taking Communion because the Church has forbidden Catholics from becoming Freemasons. The main argument is the myth of masonic secrecy. The church believes that masons are required to keep ALL secrets under pain of death, which would conflict with a Catholics duty of Confession. That is actually a fallacy because masons are not required to keep secret any acts or deeds by individual masons, only the rituals and modes of recognition between masons.

The funny thing is that if a mason DOES NOT KNOW that the Church has this stance, he can still take Communion. This means that the Church is really forbidding Catholics from disobeying them, and not actually from being Masons. Holy hypocrisies, Batman!

Freemasonry is not a religious organization, but many of the lessons of Freemasonry were formed and created from the lessons taught in the Bible. There IS a very noticeable overtone of old-testament tales and stories in masonic ritual, and many of the themes from the old testament formed the bachbone of the legends of Freemasonry.

So Freemasonry is not a religious organization because it does not teach any religious dogma, does not worship a God, and does not subscribe to any one theory. Instead, it teaches mason to take his own religion, and apply the lessons masonry teaches in addition to his own worship. It also teaches masons to be better servants of God, whoever a masons personal God may be.

But a lot of the masonic symbols and such that you see WERE derived from a largely Christian and Jewish foundation. Then again, so were our country's laws. This does not mean that the legal system is a political institution.


[edit on 24-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by SonOfIsaac
First, why are known masons forbiden from partaking ing Holy Communion?

Presumably youy are referring to catholic holy communion. As a protestant I take holy communion regularly in my church, but I would be refused communion at a catholic church as I am not a catholic. My status as a freemason is not relevant.

The question is therefore about catholic masons, which I hope sebatwerk has covered to your own personal satisfaction.

Secondly, if the freemasons are not a religious organization, why do the titles of the degrees of masonry contain wording from well acknowledged faiths?

I'm not sure what degrees you refer to - perhaps you would be kind enough to post some examples. What I can tell you is that freemasonry originally was Christian, and although it is now open to adherents of all monotheistic faiths much of the symbolism remains ostensibly christian in nature. All the moral lessons are based on biblical stories and events.

The three degrees of free and accepted masonry are known as Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason, and these have evolved from the grades of stonemason from whence the whole organisation of speculative freemasonry arose.

Some of the Additional Orders are relatively recent in origin, and the degree titles will have effectively been 'made up' by someone. Again, depends what degrees you are talking about.

I ask these questions out of respect, and desire to be responded to in the same.

I hope I have met your expectations in this regard.

I've heard an argument that attacks a particular person who happened to at some point have been a mason supposedly yet I don't see how this shows that freemasons do any harm. Let's take a look at this carefully almost any organization that has millions of members will have somebody that ends up dissappointing the rest. Pretty much the only reason that freemasonry has such a bad rep is because of the old stigmas created by the catholic church. Freemasons are men that come together from all parts of the world and all kinds of different ethnic and religious back rounds. Just because they don't all follow what everyone wants them to follow and follow their own religion whichever it may be christian, jewish , muslim, buddha, doen't mean that there is any conspiracy to be proven as a result of that. Ofcourse they do share alot of things in common and have extreme respect for each other, that doesn't justify the outlandish claims and conspiracies in reguards to them.