A question for the masons

Hello everybody, you probably don't remember me but I'm back. I used to post here alot and I see things haven't changed much since I left with the trolls. Good to see PublicGadfly not posting... Where is Theron Dunn though?

Ever heard of baiters? How about argumentative #*@#&*'s?
There everywhere.

Fact: Masons do wonderful things for people. END OF STORY.

Unfortunately for the baiters/trolls - their judgement day will SUCK
cause they'll realise they were wrong. I'd love to see that lol

I'm a firm believer that in some cases, there is simply NO POINT in trying to make people understand basic facts. They just simply aren't up to the task - they prefer to be stupid.

I say - leave 'em to it! You can "feed them" with defenses - OR - you can ignore them and just accept their ignorance.

Simple choice in my book.

Originally posted by sanse_nz
I say - leave 'em to it! You can "feed them" with defenses - OR - you can ignore them and just accept their ignorance.
Simple choice in my book.

sanse_nz, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Trolls are trolls. They'll NEVER admit they're wrong...most of them know it though. Speaking for myself, the majority of my responses are for two reasons.

1: A non-Mason who's heard various nonsense about Masonry might believe some of the garbage the trolls post about it if no one speaks up to defend it....so it's really not FOR the trolls themselves. Ignorance is bliss and they're a happy lot, situated under their bridges...

2: I find them terribly amusing.

Regards,

[edit on 13-4-2005 by senrak]

Originally posted by sanse_nz
Ever heard of baiters? How about argumentative #*@#&*'s?

There everywhere.

Fact: Masons do wonderful things for people. END OF STORY.

Unfortunately for the baiters/trolls - their judgement day will SUCK
cause they'll realise they were wrong. I'd love to see that lol

I'm a firm believer that in some cases, there is simply NO POINT in trying to make people understand basic facts. They just simply aren't up to the task - they prefer to be stupid.

I say - leave 'em to it! You can "feed them" with defenses - OR - you can ignore them and just accept their ignorance.

Simple choice in my book.

The reason for calm and reasoned response is so that the thousands that read and watch are clear , it is a load of nonsense and is shown to be such.

If it is left un - challenged the reader may well think it is fact.

senrek...
I gotta admit......their ignorance CAN be funny at times *giggle*

I'll just sit back and read your fantastic rebuttals and leave ya to it then!

Originally posted by billmcelligott
If it is left un - challenged the reader may well think it is fact.

Sorry Bill, I challenge that. I have no choice reading this forum, my job but it becomes appearent very quickly that the EVIDENCE leans towards those that present it and you know who that is. Continued bickering actually turns one off of both sides.

Food for thought.

For the others, I'm a non-Mason 69 degree.

Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by billmcelligott
If it is left un - challenged the reader may well think it is fact.

Sorry Bill, I challenge that. I have no choice reading this forum, my job but it becomes appearent very quickly that the EVIDENCE leans towards those that present it and you know who that is. Continued bickering actually turns one off of both sides.

Food for thought.

I don't know intrepid, that attitude is what got Masonry to where it is now, in the firts place. I see your point, but these antis have gone un-challenged for too long, and look what's happened:

all the books bashing masons
all the "popular myths" about masons
all the conspiracy theories about masons

And all this is at least in partn due to the fact that masons have adopted a policy of silence and non-confrontation in the past.


[edit on 13-4-2005 by sebatwerk]

Originally posted by sebatwerk
I don't know intrepid, that attitude is what got Masonry to where it is now, in the firts place. I see your point, but these antis have gone un-challenged for too long, and look what's happened:

all the books bashing masons
all the "popular myths" about masons
all the conspiracy theories about masons

And all this is at least in partn due to the fact that masons have adopted a policy of silence and non-confrontation in the past.

Don't you see that there IS non-movement by the Masons as well.

I've shown you that there is a counter-productive force in what you do AND you don't pay heed, you challenge. Do you not see a problem here? I sure do.

Status Quo doesn't work.

Originally posted by intrepid
Don't you see that there IS non-movement by the Masons as well.

I've shown you that there is a counter-productive force in what you do AND you don't pay heed, you challenge. Do you not see a problem here? I sure do.

Status Quo doesn't work.

But what is the status quo here? And where is there non-movement by masons?

I understand what you say about the counter-production in the constant arguing that goes on... it's comparable to an american public that HATES political mud-slinging. I hate it too, trust me. But I just can't sit and read this stuff anymore, these blatant and offensive LIES, slander, it makes me feel like someone is calling my sister a whore... no joke.

It wouldn't be half bad if these guys could just understand that they need to back up their statements with fact. If that was the case, the arguments would be nothing more than discussions, like the many other discussions we have on this forum.

Originally posted by The AxemanWhat is interesting is that all these folks have all these problems with the image of baphomet and I'd be willing to bet 90% of them have NO IDEA what the symbolism means, who came up with it, or his significance as a thinker and philosopher of sorts.

Why is Baphomet considered to be a Satanic or evil symbol? Because of his upper body being that of a goat? The pentagram on his forehead? What you have to realize Driver old chum, is that all this Satanism crap is FAR OUTDATED by the symbols that everyone seems to associate with it. The symbols themselves have far deeper meanings than LaVey and his accolytes would have you believe (Do they even specify? I have a copy of the Satanic Bible on the old bookshelf, but I haven't even read the first page.).

I agree most of what people call Satanic, evil and anti-christ in Freemasonry is based entirely from their false indoctrination from religion and the church.

What most perceieve as Satanic and evil, when researched a little, can turn out to be totally harmless and in alot of cases, good and righteous.



[edit on 13-4-2005 by Driver]

Originally posted by Driver
I agree most of what people call Satanic, evil and anti-christ in Freemasonry is based entirely from their false indoctrination from religion and the church.

What most perceieve as Satanic and evil, when researched a little, can turn out to be totally harmless and in alot of cases, good and righteous.

What the hell just happened!?!? I cant believe what just happened! Driver! You made sense! And what you said was intelligent, and actually denied ignorance! Good job bro

Whoa......I agree. Driver, I couldn't agree with you more!

i have a question.

Why do you Masons not reveal the knowledge of the world and the true history of humanity and the earth and all the other ancient secrets that never get told to the masses or get replaced with outright lies but get taught to you lot.

Originally posted by Driver
i have a question.
Why do you Masons not reveal the knowledge of the world and the true history of humanity and the earth and all the other ancient secrets that never get told to the masses or get replaced with outright lies but get taught to you lot.

We do. ...to those who are worthy to know. It's revealed through initiation and knowledge is attained by degrees. It's just as simple as that....

That knowledge could set this world free and would help stop the New World Order.

Originally posted by Driver
That knowledge could set this world free and would help stop the New World Order.

Perhaps that's what we're trying to do....just perhaps. Perhaps those "high-ranking" Masons everyone says is involved in the NWO are there to help destroy it from within. Just perhaps.

Ok so you and other Masons want to get the knowledge out, then? Its just you fear being expelled from Freemasonry?

Why not write an annonomous book then?

Originally posted by Driver
Ok so you and other Masons want to get the knowledge out, then? Its just you fear being expelled from Freemasonry?

Why not write an annonomous book then?

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying perhaps that's the ultimate GOAL of Freemasonry....to get that knowledge out. But we have our own ways of doing it...anonymous books don't have a great degree of credibility

Originally posted by Driver
i have a question.

Why do you Masons not reveal the knowledge of the world and the true history of humanity and the earth and all the other ancient secrets that never get told to the masses or get replaced with outright lies but get taught to you lot.

As far as my understanding goes, Freemasonry doesn't have a monopoly on the knowledge itself; it's everywhere! All you have to do is look for it. You don't need a fraternity or anything else for that matter to discover this knowledge, this truth that the Freemasons teach. It is an open book for anyone with the initiative and will to learn. It is in you, in me, in all of us! It is the way of the world!

The thing with Masonry is how the lessons are taught, that's what makes it different. Their rituals and the structure is what makes Masonry special to Masons. Without that, what is Masonry? A social club. Well I can assure you, even from the outside, a social club it's not.

So you see Driver (maybe you are starting to see), it's not the Knowledge that makes Masons Masons. It is the bond that comes from walking the same path, traveling the same road, together, with your Brothers, both past and present. Who wouldn't want to say that they have walked the same path and have that bond with the kind of men who have been (and are today) Masons? They are by and large good men who I personally would be very proud to call Brothers (present company included, of course).

That is (partially) what Masonry is to me, and that is part of the reason I am so anxious and ready to walk that path.

Does this make sense to you? It has nothing at all to do with power, prestige, or anything like that. It is about a bond, it's about being part of something bigger than yourself, and learning (or rather elaborating on truths that are all around us, perhaps highlighting some of the more important parts) about yourself, strengths and weaknesses, and knowing that when you are down you have BROTHERS who will help you to your feet, and always being willing to do the same for others, be they Brothers or not. Brotherly Love, Relief, and Truth. Get it?

[edit on 4/13/05 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by Driver
Why do you Masons not reveal the knowledge of the world and the true history of humanity and the earth and all the other ancient secrets that never get told to the masses or get replaced with outright lies but get taught to you lot.

Freemasonry does not have the knowledge of the world or the real history of humanity. That's just silly. What Freemasonry teaches is not secret. Morality, truth, justice, charity, faith, hope... these are not mind-blowing revelations or unknown mysteries. Everybody knows these in one way or another. What masonry aims to do is TEACH these things through the use of allegory and symbolism, aka ritual.

And these things don't get replaced with lies. Masonry has never replaced a secret with a lie, masons have always been very candid as to what they will and will not talk about.

I agree that these things could help save the world (though I think we are all safe from the NWO), but people don't listen. That's why masonry restricts who can participate in these lessons... So that only those that truly want to know will come knocking.


[edit on 13-4-2005 by sebatwerk]