Ukraine War - the Narrative is Slowly Changing

a reply to: TDDAgain

You mean like, using civilians as canon fodder and shields? So you are okay with that? I think you got it real wrong here.

You imply civilians are kept there against their will , you have no evidence that they are "using civilians as canon fodder and shields" , if the army set up artillery outside my house I'd go to a shelter.

The whole reason the military even exists: To protect the citizens, not to protect themselves. A concept you should try to understand.

The military exists to defend the country not adhere to your fanciful idea of what war is and how it should be fought.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Nexttimemaybe

Wonder why they have not given that information out?

By the way, it didn't just catch fire. It sank.

I'm aware it sank while being towed back to port, luckily it had been evacuated.

I just don't buy it was hit by missiles, russian ships are quite good at catching fire all on their own. They also have very good anti missle defences.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

I agree. Fog of war and everyone want's to highlight the unjust the other's did to them. Saving face a bit. I trust Wehrmacht numbers as much as I trust Allied or soviet numbers. But I do recognize the numbers must be somewhat accurate and it's horrible. Doesn't matter a few million more or less for me. In a way like, the holocaust was horrible. For every single victim, that's how I look at it.

In these digital times and with the gaslighting currently about many things, I am sure the problem of perception will not get better. Maybe it's time we make a law so articles have to be in a blockchain and can't be changed and permanent forever?

I am sure in some dark room inside a governmental building, someone is working on a Frankenstein blockchain technology for keeping track of everything we do permanently, except some levers to delete or permanent hide unfavorable stuff. Like the truth that people post and shall not be seen. Twitter style.



@Oldcarpy2, get over it already, you fulfill my prediction and you do not even notice it. You're already going back and answering second and tripple. Maybe take our conversation as a friendly hint and sort of mirror to reflect on yourself. If you have anything more to say, you can PM me and tell me my shortcomins. Or make a thread or whatever, I actually appreciate feedback like that. Hopefully by the time I send this you didn't tripple down and made a third post for me to ignore.

a reply to: gortex

You imply civilians are kept there against their will

No. I do not.

you have no evidence that they are "using civilians as canon fodder and shields"

That's your definition of evidence that is making the difference. Potato potaters. Arming untrained civilians, capturing civilians at the border -including foreigners- and sending them to the front is indeed canon foddering them. Arming children and tell them to shoot at Russians is certain death for them. Want to argue that away?

The military exists to defend the country not adhere to your fanciful idea of what war is and how it should be fought.

Please do tell me, who lives in the country? The civilians. Saying that military is okay to hide in cities and towns where the civilians are because they use every advantage to them... you don't see the discrepancy here? You don't see any wrongdoing by that, when the military uses the protection of the city as an advantage? No matter if there are civilians that THEY are supposed to protect?

Fanciful? All I know about war is that it happens and when it happens the civilians that did not instigate it are suffering. Acting like it's okay for the military to use civilians as canon fodder and shields to protect the same citizens is being dishonest towards acknowledging the whole situation.

It's like, I can't even wrap my head around that concept being acceptable in any way.

Come on you can't be serious.

Didnt Volodymyr Zelenskyy have all the witches casting spells on Putin? Perhaps Mr. Volodymyr Zelenskyy should call all the witches out onto the battlefield to cast lead bound with their spells at the Russians. Lets se how powerful the entities they bow to, perform in the real world. Maybe they can have Tamuz or Baal bring down fire from the sky on the invaders. It will show just how much faith they have, and how powerful their gods are.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Grimpachi

My question is how much faster the Russian narrative (IE "propaganda") will shift?

If it goes by your propaganda people will see through it.

a reply to: gortex

Also, let's talk about the habit of those soldiers liking to sleep in schools.

I am sure that's not because they like to remember their good old days.

Could it be a similar reason like arming children? Using them as pawns and getting some killed for the world wide outrage and to fulfil Zelensky biddings about weapons and soldiers, no fly zones and that he is now justified to have nuclear weapons?

Could it be that? Or is it that the soldiers just enjoy some good old day memories of staying overnight in their school? Maybe they read books in there in their cozy sleeping bags? I mean, sure they kept the light on so it's clear that it's a school.

Careful, it's ripping sarcasm.

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a reply to: Grimpachi

You're right. No one hears both sides of the story objectively. My own family in the Crimea has often said they identify as Russian - always had - so did most of the community who were born and raised there.

But sympathies are just sympathies. There's still the legality of the conflict which hasn't been dealt with. No one seems to want to talk about that. The eastern republics have always identified as Russian. Yet Kyiv insists they're Ukrainian.

The Russian position that they just want to oust a Nazi regime is ridiculous and has never flew very far, even though there are certainly extremists in the region. But that has always been the case - remember WWII, concentration camps and deportation of Jews, gypsies and whoever else the Nazis didn't like. A lot of that sentiment has never gone away.

When Russia secures the southern coast and turns Ukraine into a land-locked country, someone might take notice because no country, including the UK and the US is ready, willing or able to support an entire country financially. Ukrainian exports will diminish to the point of non-existence. Then what is Zelensky going to do? At some point, they have negotiate a deal for their survival - if that's even possible now. Somehow I doubt it.

originally posted by: TDDAgain
a reply to: gortex

Also, let's talk about the habit of those soldiers liking to sleep in schools.

I am sure that's not because they like to remember their good old days.

Could it be a similar reason like arming children? Using them as pawns and getting some killed for the world wide outrage and to fulfil Zelensky biddings about weapons and soldiers, no fly zones and that he is now justified to have nuclear weapons?

Could it be that? Or is it that the soldiers just enjoy some good old day memories of staying overnight in their school? Maybe they read books in there in their cozy sleeping bags? I mean, sure they kept the light on so it's clear that it's a school.

Careful, it's ripping sarcasm.

Could it be that children and families were used as shields?

a reply to: someolddog

This old dog get's it.

a reply to: TDDAgain

PM sent.

www.theamericanconservative.com...

Diogenes, one of the ancient world’s illustrious philosophers, believed that lies were the currency of politics, and those lies were the ones he sought to expose and debase. To make his point, Diogenes occasionally carried a lit lantern through the streets of Athens in the daylight. If asked why, Diogenes would say he was searching for an honest man.

Finding an honest man today in Washington, D.C., is equally challenging. Diogenes would need a Xenon Searchlight in each hand.

Still, there are brief moments of clarity inside the Washington establishment. Having lied prolifically for months to the American public about the origins and conduct of the war in Ukraine, the media are now preparing the American, British, and other Western publics for Ukraine’s military collapse. It is long overdue.

The Western media did everything in its power to give the Ukrainian defense the appearance of far greater strength than it really possessed. Careful observers noted that the same video clips of Russian tanks under attack were shown repeatedly. Local counterattacks were reported as though they were operational maneuvers.

Russian errors were exaggerated out of all proportion to their significance. Russian losses and the true extent of Ukraine’s own losses were distorted, fabricated, or simply ignored. But conditions on the battlefield changed little over time. Once Ukrainian forces immobilized themselves in static defensive positions inside urban areas and the central Donbas, the Ukrainian position was hopeless. But this development was portrayed as a failure by the Russians to gain “their objectives.”

Ground-combat forces that immobilize soldiers in prepared defenses will be identified, targeted, and destroyed from a distance.

Good article. Expect to see a lot more like it in the future. I have said from the beginning that this is like Iraq and people in the future are going to be complaining about how they were deceived by MSM and the government. Again, no one will be held responsible. There will be an investigation and some wrist-slapping at most but that will be it.

The author talks about the consequences of politics but let's face it both sides play the same games.

a reply to: TDDAgain

Well, apparently a lot of the stingers can now be bought on the dark web starting at thirty thousand. Any fringe group with a real or invented grievance now has sophisticated weaponry courtesy of the Industrial complex. Afghanistan is a dead duck now, so roll on Ukraine. Even old CIA guys are getting pissed at what's going on. Putin's speech in St Petersburg mentioned that the west was backing neo nazis. So America will either have to # soon or get off the pot. Yeh Russia is full of it as well but on balance they are not carrying as much BS as the opposition.

Incorrect, a military is organised and utilised to seek out and close with the enemy, to kill or capture him, to seize and hold ground, or support the seizure and control of ground, by day or by night, regardless of season, weather or terrain.

A defence force is a different animal.

a reply to: gortex

Time to just call it done. Send ol pedo Joe and the other puppet Z off to Russia and let them do with them what they will and we'll call it good.