Uvalde PD, school district PD no longer cooperating with investigation into school shooting

a reply to: carewemust
Actually most think it stands for assault rifle… google is free my friend.

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70
In combat cowardice is punished by death.

Now that this is out of the way let’s discuss just being stupid. They think they are protecting each other with that hold the blue line crap but plans are being made to sacrifice someone else besides these children. By shutting up everyone at that scene is leaving themselves wide open to being the one standing when the music stops.

Cops are really stupid.

They knew that the gun fire was children geting shot!
they just stand out side and wait for All the kids to die.
them go in and kill him.

Some one needs to ask the top cop.
"what is you policy in this situation" ?
and why did you NOT follow it.

why is the un writen policy to wait for all the kids to die.
so non of the cops can be made to blame for any kids geting killed?

a reply to: buddha

Several months ago the school police and I believe the city police had active shooter training. Everything they were trained on was ignored (based on the info I have heard/read).

a reply to: shaemac

Hadn't read that one but it sounds interesting.

Reminds me of a documentary I saw on Netflix called Sons of Sam.

Synopsis: Author Maury Terry becomes convinced that serial killer David Berkowitz did not act alone and tries to prove that the web of darkness behind the Son of Sam murders goes deeper than anyone imagined -- and is part of a vast cult.

Maury Terry died disappointed that the public never accepted his evidence.

But he was vindicated posthumously, based on the following:

The body of Arliss Perry was discovered by the church security guard, Stephen Blake Crawford in 1974. He claimed to have found her at 5:45am, face-up with her hands across her chest. She had been brutally killed, with reports saying she was found with an ice-pick in her head and she had been sexually assaulted with a candlestick.

Maury Terry said he had suspicions that the person who killed Arlis Perry was Crawford, but nobody believed him – mainly because there was no evidence at the time that linked him to being a person of interest.

It was thought the murder might have been linked to a satanic cult, because of how it resembled a ritual killing, and, Berkowitz is linked to the crime because he sent a detective a package containing the book The Anatomy of Witchcraft and a written note that read: “Arliss Perry, hunted, stalked and slain. Followed to California.”

Terry suspected the church security guard, Crawford, was involved based on his research of how this cult operates.

The police raid shown in the final episode of The Sons of Sam on Netflix was that of 72-year-old Stephen Blake Crawford. Armed police attended his home, and the gunshot heard in the Netflix documentary was Crawford committing suicide before he could be served a search warrant.

Santa Clara County Sheriff Laurie Smith, said at news conference, after Crawford killed himself: “There was no DNA at the time of the murder, but there had been enhancements in capability and we continued to submit evidence to the crime lab.” She added that Crawford's DNA sample had come from an item of Perry’s clothing.

Detectives had arrived to his San Jose apartment to serve a search warrant, and there they found a copy of Maury Terry’s book, The Ultimate Evil, which is about the Sons of Sam killings and the potential links to a cult.

I tend to think these school shootings could be linked to some kind of cult, who is able to stalk, influence, and trigger these disturbed mass shooters.

Maybe there are people in school districts, local and federal law enforcement agencies, and intelligence agencies, who also have links to this occult, called by Maury Terry, as, the ultimate evil.

There seems to be much misunderstanding in this thread. I’ll try to clear a few things up for everyone here.

1. The AR-15 stands for Armalite Rifle. The 15 stands for Eugene Stoners 15th patent on his line of rifles.
2. Civilian AR style rifles in current production are “semi-automatic” in function, which means you need to pull the trigger once for every round fired.
3. It is possible for a civilian to purchase a “full auto” rifle. They have to be produced prior to 1986 and require a Class 3 firearms license. These firearms are VERY expensive to the average citizen, costing up in the 10’s of thousands of dollars.

Double post

www.cnn.com...

Pete Arredondo, the Uvalde school district police chief who was the incident commander during the Robb Elementary school shooting, was sworn in as a city council member on Tuesday.

There is more here folks. I think this guy was ultimately worried that he will either lose his council seat or he is in for a rough time.

this event will go down just like every other breaking news event it will slowly fade away and fall off at the end.everybody will forget to remember just like they want , theres only a handful of events that people remember or recall. old news is about a week or two...here is an example ny mayor deblazioblabla got his wife over 1 billion in tax payers money for some city function that never worked out was finished or completed as was stated in the news so where did that billion go ? nobody knows nobody cares its just gone. thats how it goes when the gov is included...we have a big problem in the usa right now the price of gas is going up for no reason the food is running out now they r leaking out monkey pox to scare u even more but they can freely send 40 billion to a country that is at war with another country not our country why does this happen ? the reason i said any of this is because we the citizens of the usa have to pay for all of these exec decisions no matter what and we dont get a say in any of it we didnt stop the production of the oil products when we have about 400 years of stock left we didnt start a war or aid to the continuation of it and we dont go around leaking shiz out of labs either ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY

a reply to: HUSARIA

"require a Class 3 firearms license"

This is FALSE.
This is ONLY if you wish to buy and sell them as a business.

For a civilian to own a full auto or "machine gun" you were correct about pre 1986 but you are wrong about requiring to have a class 3 firearms license. How do I know? I own a full auto "machine gun" legally and I don't have a class 3 firearms license.

You buy them just like you buy suppressors.

So much misinformation on this thread.

originally posted by: traderjoe99
a reply to: HUSARIA

"require a Class 3 firearms license"

This is FALSE.
This is ONLY if you wish to buy and sell them as a business.

For a civilian to own a full auto or "machine gun" you were correct about pre 1986 but you are wrong about requiring to have a class 3 firearms license. How do I know? I own a full auto "machine gun" legally and I don't have a class 3 firearms license.

You buy them just like you buy suppressors.

So much misinformation on this thread.

youtu.be... Here is a video with all the details so we aren’t sitting here splitting hairs over “misinformation”.

a reply to: traderjoe99

Type of automatic gun, when was it made and when did you purchase it?

I just don’t get why they waited in the hall. Even if cowardly it makes no sense. The guy was supposedly already executing people one by one. So then it’s not like any action on the police’s part would have triggered anything worse to happen than already was happening. So why wouldn’t they at least break the door down from an angle out of the range of gunfire and give themselves a bit of knowledge on the shooters location, how he was armed, heck even just wait for him to raise and point the gun an anyone would give them the second they need to strafe the shooter through the open door with little chance of being hit. Why just slow gunshot after gunshot as if they were afraid entering or breaking down the door might cause something bad they’d feel guilty for. I think mass execution is about the worst thing that was gonna happen already. I mean, open door, smoke bomb, tear gas grenade, strafe while shooting toward shooter the second he is focusing elsewhere, I don’t get it. SMH.

And this is the job they chose and for these reasons the IMHO totally misplaced “honor” they’re given...they should forfeit all their salaries this year to the families since obviously they weren’t doing the job they were on the clock for. Sure it can be scary or dangerous. But nobody made them sign up nor did anyone not get the risk...I’ll bet they use every little legal and or traffic perk there is for cops to take advantage of so it’s BS to the highest degree of any scenario I can think of. And twenty adults not one willing to lose his life for a whole heap of children? I have never been there sure but I like to think it’d be a no brained reaction for me and I’d just act and so be it if I had any chance of saving a kid.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Mac11 9mm made 1985.
Purchased about 1.5 years ago.

It's in the same classification as an AR-15 full auto. It's classified as "machine gun". You don't need a class 3 firearms license. That's if you want to buy and sell "machine guns" after 1986 to law enforcement or military.

Any civilian over the age over 21, living in a free state, can legally purchase a "machine gun" that was manufactured and recorded previous to 1986. This include "sears". These are registered devices that make the gun full auto. So you can buy a pre 1986 full auto ar-15 sear and put that into a brand new ar-15 that can accept full auto sears. The process is closely the same as buying a suppressor. It's an NFA item so you can submit your finger prints and they do a background check. It used to take about 10 months average. Now there is an E-File system that does it in under 3 months.

Lots of people, living in a free state have full auto machine guns. They could be more deadly in certain situations but if I was to go to war I would use semi auto and not full auto. Full auto is less accurate after the first shot and you expense TOO much ammo.

You should note any illegal activities or illegals killings are extremely rare with "machine gun". So those that think law abiding citizens that goes through the process to legally purchase a machine gun is dangerous thing please know these never ever really happen.

If I wanted to I can get my SOT and 1 or 2 different FFL classes and I can buy post 1986 full auto weapons (non dealer sample). I would also be able to manufacture.

originally posted by: traderjoe99
a reply to: Xcathdra

Mac11 9mm made 1985.
Purchased about 1.5 years ago.

It's in the same classification as an AR-15 full auto. It's classified as "machine gun". You don't need a class 3 firearms license. That's if you want to buy and sell "machine guns" after 1986 to law enforcement or military.

Any civilian over the age over 21, living in a free state, can legally purchase a "machine gun" that was manufactured and recorded previous to 1986. This include "sears". These are registered devices that make the gun full auto. So you can buy a pre 1986 full auto ar-15 sear and put that into a brand new ar-15 that can accept full auto sears. The process is closely the same as buying a suppressor. It's an NFA item so you can submit your finger prints and they do a background check. It used to take about 10 months average. Now there is an E-File system that does it in under 3 months.

Lots of people, living in a free state have full auto machine guns. They could be more deadly in certain situations but if I was to go to war I would use semi auto and not full auto. Full auto is less accurate after the first shot and you expense TOO much ammo.

You should note any illegal activities or illegals killings are extremely rare with "machine gun". So those that think law abiding citizens that goes through the process to legally purchase a machine gun is dangerous thing please know these never ever really happen.

If I wanted to I can get my SOT and 1 or 2 different FFL classes and I can buy post 1986 full auto weapons (non dealer sample). I would also be able to manufacture.

Unless it’s just nonsense floating around out there, I have heard before the claim that Switzerland is the highest per capita in gun possession as it is almost 100% since, come a certain age, each citizen is given a gun (and I think a machine like gun or rifle) to act as their own standing army. I think maybe this was a thing of the past but if true in this day and age it would go to show that you can have the most machine guns on earth and it doesn’t hurt the murder rate which in Switzerland is what, two or three a year lol?

a reply to: traderjoe99

and because the gun was made in 1985 you dont need a class 3 to buy / own it.

PUBLIC LAW 99-308—MAY 19, 1986 100 STAT. 453
"(oXD Except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for
any person to transfer or possess a machinegun.
"(2) This subsection does not apply with respect to—
"(A) a transfer to or by, or possession by or under the author-
ity of, the United States or any department or agency thereof or
a State, or a department, agency, or political subdivision
thereof; or
"(B) any lawful transfer or lawful possession of a machinegun
that was lawfully possessed before the date this subsection takes
effect."

How to Purchase a Machine Gun as an Individual:

Confirm that they are lawful to possess in your state
Find a currently registered machine gun made before 1986 either at a gun shop or a private individual. You can search locally or online (but out-of-state online sales of all firearms must go to your local gun shop).
Purchase the machine gun as an individual or through a trust – but, no, you can’t take it home yet! Trusts were popular to avoid certain requirements (fingerprints, law enforcement approval, etc.) but ATF changed the rules last year. Previously, your local Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) approval was required, but the ATF changed the rules last year to only require notification. Also, members of a trust could obtain new NFA firearms without fingerprints/photos but now every lawful possessor is required to submit them each time. These rule changes removed much of the reason to get a trust.
Fill out an ATF Form 4 application to transfer an NFA firearm. This application will include a $200 check for your tax, your fingerprints, a passport-style photograph, and information about you and the firearm.
Wait 9-12 months for the ATF to approve and return your paperwork.
Take your machine-gun home and enjoy!

How to Purchase a Machine Gun as an FFL:

Get your FFL and become an SOT.
Either make your machine gun or purchase a machine gun (depends on the type of FFL you get).
If you made it, submit an ATF Form 2 after it is made (no pre-approval required!). If you bought it, you must have an ATF Form 3 approved first (it should take less than 6 weeks and, you don’t have to pay a transfer tax)

edit on 3-6-2022 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-6-2022 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

Still happening, shortest time possible is 300 days continuous active duty and 10 years of reserves. I don’t think they give you a sealed box of ammo anymore. But you do keep your gun unless you opt for gun less duty (logistic clerk, cook, etc) or civilian duty (taking care of elderly, drug treatment facilities, etc).

Conscription is to perform civic duty whether military service or community service.

According to Wikipedia

a reply to: Xcathdra

Right. I was replying to an above post that said
"3. It is possible for a civilian to purchase a “full auto” rifle. They have to be produced prior to 1986 and require a Class 3 firearms license. These firearms are VERY expensive to the average citizen, costing up in the 10’s of thousands of dollars."

Said has to be produced prior to 1986 AND require a class 3 license.
I was just correcting that person's statement by saying you don't need a class 3 license if it's produced and registered before 1986.

pew pew pew pew.

a reply to: FamCore

Update 07/13/2022

If the UVALDE police were "under orders" to let as many children be murdered as possible, their actions would be similar, or exactly like, what this newly released video shows, would they not?

Source: www.breitbart.com...

So damn tragic!

The parents who lost children should sue the city/county/state.

If the parents of drug addict thug George Floyd got $25 million from Minnesota for their son being killed by police, the Uvalde parents should get millions of dollars each, because police assisted with the murder of their sons and daughters!

a reply to: carewemust

They can try to sue but I doubt they would win unless the entities being sued settled. The argument you are making about George Floyd would not apply as it is completely different (both, the situation as well as State law). The review of the officers actions and their use of force can only be reviewed in terms of what the leo's / command staff, from point A to point Z, using totality of circumstances, did. No 20/20 hindsight would be allowed and that is a US Supreme Court ruling, and I believe that would apply in this case as well.

The U.S. Supreme Court upheld the officers’ use of force.In deciding the reasonableness of their use of force (among other legal issues) under the Fourth Amendment, the Court emphasized that the reasonableness issue must be determined “from the perspective ‘of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.’” The Court continued as follows:We thus “allo[w] for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments—in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving—about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation. . . . Rickard’s outrageously reckless driving posed a grave public safety risk. . . . Under the circumstances at the moment when the shots were fired, all that a reasonable police officer could have concluded was that Rickard was intent on resuming his flight and that, if he was allowed to do so, he would once again pose a deadly threat for others on the road. . . . [Thus] the police acted reasonably in using deadly force to end that risk.[With regard to the argument that 15 shots were unreasonable, the Court said] it stands to reason that, if police are justified in firing at a suspect in order to end a severe threat to public safety, the officers need not stop shooting until the threat has ended. . . .[I]f lethal force is justified, officers are taught to keep shooting until the threat is over.0In November 2015, the U.S. Supreme Court, in an unsigned opinion, ruled in favor of a police officer who fired in the dark from an overpass at a speeding car, killing the driver.In Mullenix v. Luna, the Court held that the officer was immune from liability even though he fired without his supervisor’s permission after the supervisor said to wait and see whether the spikes worked.Furthermore, Mullenix had not been trained nor had he ever watched this kind of reaction to a speeding vehicle being chased by other officers.

The above info is just a snippet from the case but it demonstrates what I was talking about. The other issue is leo's "qualified immunity" when it comes to civil suits. If a government employee is performing discretionary work then they are generally immune from civil law suits. There are factors that must be reviewed / clarified / accepted by the court to invoke qualified immunity but generally it is were the officers within the law when the incident occurred.

In this case they were.

Regarding your comment about leo's assisting in the kids death. Again the US Supreme Court ruled that leo's do NOT have a duty to protect the individual.

Through 20/20 hindsight we learned that the CBP swat team ignored an order from the incident commander (in this case the School Police Chief) to back off and not storm the room the suspect was confined to. Through 20/20 hindsight we learned how many officers initially responded and we saw the leaked surveillance footage of the outside / and hallway. Through 20/20 hindsight we knew the suspect was armed based on what we could see from the video. Through hindsight 20/20 we now know the suspect had bought more than 1,000+ rounds of ammo and had 300+ rounds with him (A US Soldier going into combat takes about 200+ rounds).

Everything we know that occurred that day came from 20/20 hindsight information. The info we used to critique law enforcement actions that day were NOT known to leo's / command staff at the time.

McCraw also said the decision by the on-site commander at Robb Elementary School to delay breaching the classroom during the mass shooting was the "wrong decision." Nearly 20 officers stood in a hallway outside of the classrooms during the attack for more than 45 minutes before agents used a master key to open a door and confront the gunman, McCraw said.

The on-site commander believed the suspect was was barricaded in a classroom and that the children were not at risk. "He was convinced at the time that there was no more threat to the children and that the subject was barricaded and that they had time to organize" to get into the classroom, McCraw said.

"Of course it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision," he said.

I can say from my training and experience that an active shooter situation can transform into another matter entirely very quickly. In this case the active shooter situation, in the mind of the Chief, ended when the suspect was confined to the classroom. He also was under the impression that no other kids were in imminent danger. This lead the chief to transition from an active shooter situation over to that of a barricaded gunmen with possible hostages, and both scenarios have different criteria for handling the 2 different situations.


Let me be clear - I am not defending what occurred that day. I am pointing out the hurdles a civil law suit would need to overcome.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Reading your legal explanation of so many subjects, is not only educational, you also make me realize why it takes years to get a known killer to the electric chair, and how UN-fair the Jan 6th Witch Hunt committee is. Thank-you!