Uvalde PD, school district PD no longer cooperating with investigation into school shooting

originally posted by: shaemac

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: FamCore

I've seen where they have also stated the teacher that propped the door heard the crash and went to call 911 and when someone yelled he has a gun they got the rock they were using out, but the door didn't automatically lock like it was supposed to.

It could be as simple as covering negligence to keep the city/department being sued, but as usual a lot of oddities around these events.

The door didnt lock?
Then why did they need a key to unlock it?

(question not to you...rhetorical).
We will never know the answers...it will take years to get anywhere with this.

Different door. The outside door didn't lock when she closed it. The shooter entered the building through that door then went into a classroom and locked the classroom door, which they then needed a key for. At least that's the way I understand it at this time. Who knows? The information on this seems to change by the hour.

a reply to: murphy22

Some info that most dont understand and keep in mind I am just explaining things.

* - Law Enforcement purpose is not to protect the individual but society as a whole.

* - The US Supreme Court has ruled several times that law enforcement does not have a duty to act.
Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone - just one case off the top of my head.

* - Investigations into police differ from standard investigations.
For a civilian under criminal investigation there are several amendments that come into play (1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, etc). They are investigated and if they are A - In police custody and B - being asked guilt seeking questions they must be read their Miranda rights.

* - Investigations into law enforcement is broken down into 3 distinct area.
A - Criminal investigation - usually handled by an outside agency.
B - Internal affairs - did the officers actions violate police / procedure - handled by internal affairs
C - Civil rights investigation - usually handled by the Feds (was any persons civil rights violated).

For Police you have the above, but you also have to be read your Garritty rights (only applies to Law Enforcement for this example). As a police officer we operate in a quasi military chain of command where we are required to follow orders (exceptions apply but thats a whole different issue).

"Garrity Rights protect public employees from being compelled to incriminate themselves during investigatory interviews conducted by their employers.

This protection stems from the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which declares that the government cannot compel a person to be a witness against him/herself. [

The IA investigation views officers as guilty until proven innocent. As such we are required to cooperate in investigations into our actions. Any refusal to cooperate and you jeopardize your career. Because of what we do we are held to a higher standard than civilians.

Civil rights investigation (42 USC 1983 (civil) and 18 USC 242 (criminal)
When an officer is forced to shoot a person to stop the threat, the person shot is considered as "seized" under the 4th amendment (even if the person is neutralized). Did the officers actions violate the suspects civil rights.


An officer must be investigated and cleared, ideally, in all 3 investigations. However you can run into issue where you cleared in the criminal i9nvestigation but not the IA portion. The employing agency can terminate you and then can distance themselves from the officer fired. If a city takes that step the officer is on their own when it comes to civil lawsuits.


I know it may sound like I am defending the officers actions in this case but I am not. I am trying to give people an insight into how some of this stuff works.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: FamCore

thanks for the information. The door thing is making more sense. Still not an excuse, but understandable she panicked.
Her weakness cost the lives of 21 people.

She very much is in on it , the shooter knew exactly which door was open. The shooter was also handed weapons/truck etc to carry out this murder spree.
Our corrupt government is behind this , together with this teacher that left the door open, the police etc
Now they have come after the 2nd 'because of this mass shooting'

a reply to: shaemac

Two different doors?

One is the door to the building that the shooter accessed that was propped open and should not have been.

The other is the door to the classroom the shooter was "contained" in with a bunch of kids by LEOs who then did nothing while he murdered those kids. This is the door they didn't have keys to.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't care how many laws are there to 'explain this' , a cop with no morals and with no backbone to make his own decisions based on a situation (in this case a shooter having a rampage with little kids as target) shouldn't be a cop , end of !
If some government agency planned this event and the cops blindly went along with it then they are too corrupt to be cops.

But then these things are becoming more and more apparent , the level of corruption in society, there will be no moral cops left soon.

a reply to: ancientlight

For the most part I agree with you and your mindset. However the rules / laws in question come into play in everything we do so its beneficial to have an idea / understanding of what they are.

a reply to: FamCore

The Uvalde PD are soulless scumbags . They helped cause the death of all these kids . They are by far the second most guilty party . They should go to jail .Now they’re flat out not saying anything whatsoever. Just in case we didn’t think they could get any sleazier , they do this . If they’re not going to jail then they should be fired and the public know who they are so they can’t let us get slaughtered again

There is no care in the world anymore, there is no more sanctuary or places of asylum or places of guild anymore. No respect; no true guidance and damn sure no remorse or justice left in this goddamned forsaken world anymore. Is this the plan or am I just misinterpreting all the signals of a intentional and vigorously quick and disrupted a society can become in just a matter of months.

Why do we keep playing along with this charade and why the hell do we allow it? Do we want a dystopia in the near future?
We sure as of late are allowing it. No one who represents us have our interests at hand, do they?

All we can do is prepare for the breakpoint we are heading at. And I see on the horizon it will come very soon and quick, much sooner than most think it will happen. Whether or not you think you are prepared or not it will not matter. The robbery and evil will continue till your last reserves run out. Even preppers might run out of supplies, what then?

I truly feel we as humans are being led to slaughter. I feel very dark forces are rising on this planet again and the outcome this time will be devastating to the entire human race and other life forms on our planet. I'm not talking about Nuclear war, but that is not off the tables here. I am talking about a power grid of powerful less than human folks that beleive masses should die so they can get back to servant class like before the black plague happened.

When the original plague happened it disrupted the ruling class by many degrees. They lost all their slave workers and had no choice but to give up their lands to the serfs, thus this gave land ownership finally which totally changed the whole way humans had been going for leadership and what not. Getting rid of kings and queens and guillotines though the the whole progression of law, order and all the othe BS. Then came the Victorian era and yada yada yada.

Where we are at now is the most Violent Villainous Victorious, Vile, Virulent species on the planet. We are not going to last very long with attitudes like this. What should we do, what can we do?

It's hopeless folks, call me a doomer if you will, I don't see a correction in this or any future.

originally posted by: Khaleesi

originally posted by: shaemac

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: FamCore

I've seen where they have also stated the teacher that propped the door heard the crash and went to call 911 and when someone yelled he has a gun they got the rock they were using out, but the door didn't automatically lock like it was supposed to.

It could be as simple as covering negligence to keep the city/department being sued, but as usual a lot of oddities around these events.

The door didnt lock?
Then why did they need a key to unlock it?

(question not to you...rhetorical).
We will never know the answers...it will take years to get anywhere with this.

Different door. The outside door didn't lock when she closed it. The shooter entered the building through that door then went into a classroom and locked the classroom door, which they then needed a key for. At least that's the way I understand it at this time. Who knows? The information on this seems to change by the hour.

One of the kids was telling his story on the news the day after it happened. (I can't for life me understand why they would dramatize a kid like that, or why they would let a kid tell the media anything with an ongoing investigation underway!)

Anyway, he said the shooter pushed his way past a teacher to get into the classroom, and shot the door's window out at the same time. He said the shooter and the teacher made eye contact and then the shooter told the teacher to say "Goodnight", and then he shot her.

a reply to: ancientlight

What an idiotic thing to say.

Brazenly I feel wee all doomed to all our own self interests. But hey that's the human condition.

a reply to: shaemac

The door that did not lock was the door to the outside.

The door the cops supposedly needed the janitors key to unlock was a do I r to one of the classrooms, which I assume, was locked by the shooter when he entered the classroom (elsewise, a teacher would have had to open the classroom door for the shooter. None of the surviving children has been quoted as implying a teacher did this).


Looks like we all caught this detail!

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I have no idea what is what in this case. Like I said, the information is constantly changing. That's why I refrained from posting on this subject until now. I did see a video with a representation of the school which showed the door he supposedly entered the building by and where that was in relation to the classroom that he locked himself in.

I don't know what to think. The story keeps changing almost by the hour.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Thank you! I believe, I already said, all that, with less words. .... And that was my point.

I know to well, how "some" of all this works.

"LEO" wants to play American Soldier, Until they have to be a Soldier... Then they get all legal,.. "I'm a "civilian" employee. .."I just want to make it home after my shift". ..

But keep the "civilians" out of my way!..
"Law Enforcement" is nothing but a tax collection scheme. It's a political employment, that is stuck between contrived obligation, a sense of duty, self validation and childhood emotional issues.

Most cops actually believe, they're the only thing that is holding civilization together.

In reality? 90% of the time? They're in the way. Which is odd. Because there's so few of them.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Something thats becoming clear, law enforcement is and to a greater degree, attract the absolute wrong kind of people.

Kind of like politics.

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: FamCore

I've seen where they have also stated the teacher that propped the door heard the crash and went to call 911 and when someone yelled he has a gun they got the rock they were using out, but the door didn't automatically lock like it was supposed to.

It could be as simple as covering negligence to keep the city/department being sued, but as usual a lot of oddities around these events.

A Washington Examiner? maybe journalist went through their manuals on response someone posted in another thread, 'suprisingly' waiting for more kids to die wasn't part of the training. [Eta'- here it is]
mobile.twitter.com...

I found this bit from your link to be pretty compelling: (an excerpt from an "active shooter" manual/guide that was allegedly used to train the Uvalde PD not long before this event took place)

The guidelines provide sobering clarity: The first officers may be risking their lives. But, it says, innocent lives take priority.

“A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field."

So is the accusation that the officers on scene became gun shy?

But how does this reconcile with different accounts of how this played out, i.e. that a high ranking police official ordered the officers on scene to not breach the classroom.

I really am interested in a) interviews from the officers on scene, b) their superior officers, and c) an assessment of other officers that have been in that situation. It definitely feels a number of different things were f***ed up that day, between following training/policy, following instincts "on the ground" (even if they happened to contradict orders to stay out of the classroom) and everything in between.

a reply to: FamCore

Any thoughts on what the implications are of these developments?

So The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde CISD Police Department are not cooperating ?

Then it's obvious right ? The plan is to dump everything on the Uvalde Police department , they are made to seem uncooperative and in doing so they seem obstructive to justice and are clearly hiding something .

Clearly its all the Uvalde Police Departments fault , the FBI , The State Police, The Texas Rangers etc etc none of them are at fault .

Heads have got to roll on this , so why not crucify the local department and while we are at it rebuild the school and everyone will move on hopefully ignoring the obvious inconsistencies.

a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Scapegoating the low hanging fruit.

Yet another common occurrance among these types of events.

Star and flag!t to give this topic thread more ummph.

Think about this old song by 'The Who'.

Does it relate, it's so hot here, even with the air on i am sweating woo.

Anyhow, anyway... Please listen and enjoy the past, it might teach you something you never knew, possibly.
It's all a "Put on" right? And that's not far from a 'Putin' JK.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Law Enforcements" job, is "to protect and defend" the C.O.T.U.S and the "Constitution" of their State. I have been to a few, "law enforcement" graduations..myself.