Europe is Broken

originally posted by: AutomateThis1v2

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: and14263

My brother was just in Rome: He got a rental car, probably not the best idea. He was parked near a cafe. A homeless guy walked up to the curb near his car, dropped his pants, took a dump on the street, pulled up his pants, and walked away. People were just walking by like it was no big deal, like it happens all the time. Are Rome and L.A. sister cities or something?

Sure he wasn't in San Francisco ?

Nah, between Naples and Rome the cities are mostly trash where people just piss and crap wherever they want. Trash blows through there like urban tumbleweeds.

Don't even get me started on the other illicit crap I saw there.

i toured western and eastern Europe maybe 10 years ago.

worst city was paris. homeless camps on the off an on ramps and military patrolling the tourist areas.


piza just had annoying hawkers. Vienna had a Palestinian anti Israeli protest when i was here. wasn't too bad but their music sucked.

venice is a place i could hang. no problems.


Switzerland was nice.

Hungary/Budapest , very nice. as was prague.

berlin was fine. didn't get to brussels.

maybe i was lucky and everyone was sleeping in.


not sure i'd go back to some places, tho. some i'd go in a heart beat.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: Revontuli

The entire western world has approached the challenges of immigration as something that could be easily regulated and absorbed. Total underestimation of the grip that tradition and faith has in the developing world.

This was compounded by a failure to understand the implications of the internet and low cost voice connectivity. Where previously immigrants had been largely cut off from their country of origin, they now remain in practically constant contact with "the old country", and it weakens any desire on their part to learn new ways and to assimilate into their new homeland.

Cheers

This is keen observation. I’d just add that imo where those ‘old country’ traditions are peaceful and respectful the maintaining of that connection to the homeland - preserving their heritage - can have a positive influence on the culture they’re being absorbed into. It’s only where the ‘old country’ doctrines themselves are negative, overtly controlling, aggressive, nationalistic, or partisan in favour of ‘their own kind’ does this corrode the environment they’ve moved to.

Is it not too simplistic to decide which cultures are good, which are bad, as there’s always derivatives, cells dividing themselves from the mainstream that are usually the root of the problem - which despite their advertised holier than thou puritanical values is in fact driven by egos and individual lust for power.

This whole messy quagmire stems, as you observe, in no small way from the contemporary ease and availability of international communication. But that genie’s now out of the bottle and it’s not going back in save for a highly unlikely solar event that wipes it out beyond repair…

If we try to regulate the problem by outlawing immigrants’ connections to the old country in any way we make those marginalised peoples fertile ground for radicalisation.

Worse of all would be the state appealing to the Right and later to the Left too, that the solution is to regulate this without radicalising minorities by regulating international communication for everyone. There are no doubt some in power that would love to see this immigration problem get so bad that it can be used as a reason to introduce draconian controls on everyone. That’s a big brother scenario far worse than the problem of some elements refusing to assimilate into their new culture.

How to fairly and responsibly police these nuances without facilitating overreach from tptb is a tricky problem. But any of the blunt tool approaches often proposed by the Right will do more damage to all our freedoms and culture than immigrants refusing to surrender their heritage. It will lesson the melting pot magic that creates cultures that accept difference. ‘Difference’ is a marvellous thing and our only hope in avoiding becoming the homogenous servile nationalistic mass tptb would prefer us to be - where we all police ourselves into obedience by ostracising anything that doesn’t conform.

But indeed there’s a paradox implicit in not overtly policing those draconian cultures that dictate servitude in order to avoid the host culture becoming too dependent upon servitude to these draconian policies implemented to outlaw servitude…

It’s a messy, paradoxical dilemma. The right solutions are illusive and the wrong ones always ripe for the picking.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Why do I get the feeling you’re not in the dire straits that drive many into crime? Have you ever been - honestly? I can tell you it’s no fun,

If we’re going to get as tough as you suggest on crime, then let’s start at the the root of it all - at top of society where the crimes effect millions. The bent politicians, bankers and CEOs… start there and I’ll bet that once you’ve addressed that, then there won’t be half as much crime needing addressing by the time you reach the lower rungs of the ladder.

Locking up those hoarding all the wealth and life chances that comes with it will redistribute those chances to many that will then not need to steel because they’ve been to better schools, grown up out of the gutter and no longer face the unwelcome choice between minimum wage slavery, or life on the doll, or crime.

The poor are the easy target, but not the right target if you really want a solution.

a reply to: McGinty

I could add a few but's, if's, maybe's and whatabout's but essentially I agree with all of your last post.

We really need to target those at the top of the tree whilst also addressing fundamental issues within our society.
But that requires politicians and leaders with the vision, belief and determination to implement a joined up and far reaching programme of reforms and legislation that extends into every part of our society.
That far exceeds the capability and desire with our current crop of populist career politicians who lurch from one crisis to the next and who's only concerns seem to be self-aggrandisement and self-preservation whilst maintaining the status quo of the Established party political system.

But if we are looking at crime there is so much 'low hanging fruit' that we can deal with immediately.
We need to stop being soft on crime; people need to start serving their full sentence and actually earn any remission that maybe available.
Prison sentences need to start reflecting the severity of the crime committed. Some of the sentences given are farcical.
We need to start putting the interests and well being of the victims of crime before those of the criminal.
And we need to emphasise that the purpose of prison is punishment; rehabilitation whilst desirable is secondary.

I assure you; prison is not nice.
People may try to sell the myth that its a walk in the park, it isn't. Not for the vast majority of people inside doing a stretch. Its awful.
But it should be even worse for those committed for the most serious of crimes; the rapists, nonces, serial killers, etc it should be absolute torture - no exceptions. No second chances. Real punishment.

Sounds pretty draconian?
Maybe....but prison needs to be a real deterrent AND real punishment.

But at the same time we need to stop locking people up for minor crimes.
We need to decriminalise a whole slew of things whilst completely changing the approach to the 'war on drugs'.
And we need to find alternative ways of punishing people for relatively minor transgressions. Genuine community work - not the joke that passes off as such today - that is both a punishment but educates and is a positive for both the person and the community.

I could waffle on for ages but I'm sure I'm getting to the 'boring the tits off people' stage.

The main points are that we could and should do something about it in the here and now.
But we need to fix some of the basic and fundamental problems in our society if we are to achieve some real and positive change.

originally posted by: McGinty
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Why do I get the feeling you’re not in the dire straits that drive many into crime? Have you ever been - honestly? I can tell you it’s no fun,

You are correct McGinty I'm not in the dire straits as you put it that drives many to crime. Yet I only make minimum wage. If I worked it out properly I would expect that I should be suing myself for paying myself below minimum wage. But I don't complain and work 14 hours a day 6 days a week to make things work out.

My folks were pretty poor post war when they were born. But wasn't everyone back then? Mum was born and no father (flippin Yankee GI's lol), her mum worked every hour g-d sent as a cleaner to bring her up. No stories of theft I can remember. Just hard graft. Eating the left overs in cafes of others who had left. No crime.

Dad's upbringing similar. Father a plough man on a farm. Nothing to go round after the food put on the table. Couple of oranges at Christmas. Yet again, no thieving. No criminal acts. Just a life of back beaking work. They just got on with it back then.

Have I ever honestly been in that position? Nope not really. Been skint though for quite some time, ended up donning a flat cap and playing a mouth organ in the street to raise some cash in the early 90's. Nothing serious though. Yet had to do it as had no dosh whatsoever for food.

The thing is you will never ever starve to death in Britain. It's never going to happen. Totally impossible. The social security net will prevent anybody from starving to death. So for that reason they is no reason whatsoever to do crime. If crime is committed then no excuses. It's not needed when the social security net will help out.

No reason whatsoever to commit crime here. None at all.

Now when it comes to people living in the third world then yes I do understand why they might steal from others. It's a life and death situation. Would I take from the rich if I couldn't provide food for my family and they were going to starve? If I had no other choice and lived in a hopeless situation then for sure I would take from anyone if it meant keeping my family alive. Totally understand that. It's survival.

Yet in Britain? Nope. I'd never do it when the state will give me a guaranteed way out of going down the route of crime.

There is no excuse for going down the criminal route. By just being on the dole in then UK one is wealth wise in the top 7% of people on Planet Earth. By being on minimum wage one is in the top 4% of people on Planet Earth.

There is no excuse for going down the criminal route in the UK. A crime is a crime and the courts should make the criminals pay for their crimes.

originally posted by: Dionysaur
The things done by controllers to destroy Europe may actually be regenerating Europe. Infusing energy can turn out either way. It's cultures that atrophy that die out or get subsumed.

"Regenerating Europe"?

Are you not paying attention?

This is about the end of Europe, as it has been for millennia, and it's change into something ugly.

If you can't see that you are lost.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

That’s a great account - tough times indeed and all credit to your parents and yourself for knuckling down and grafting. I won’t try and compete with my details, save to say council estate and brought up on benefits due to family disability, but plenty of hope. I eventually knuckled down and dragged myself out of that pit. But After living that life - the inevitable urine soaked path that joins estate to grave for all those without skills, luck or sheer ruthless, bloody mindedness to save themselves I’m not willing to judge those that turn to crime; or more accurately those that fall into it down life’s waste chute.

But that’s a broad stroke. There are always nuances and among them the wrinkle of stealing from the rich and stealing from the poor. I wish we lived in a world where no one suffered the desire to thieve. But because some of the rich hoard 99% of the wealth it is sadly a fact of life that this perverse distribution will breed some folk that decide to redistribute some of it to themselves. That redistribution is imo morally difficult to condemn. But stealing from those that don’t have much themselves is a despicable act. The scum that steal from the poor deserve harsh judgement.

a reply to: and14263

Didnt feel that way to me and the wife when we were there 5 years ago, saddens me to hear this.

preffered spending time in Belgium and the Netherlands to germany back then.

a reply to: LABTECH767

It's not a separate country. It's an atominus region and that's not that rare, Jakarta is the same, and so are Jersey and Greenland to name a few. What's unique about London is how old it is, 1075, and that's it's run by a company. Oh, and it didn't take a huge hit from Brexit as it was the reason for Brexit. Look up when it became illegal for an EU member state to operate a tax haven, then check out how many of the world's tax havens are Brit territories and finally have a look to see David Cameroon's father's role in the creation of these havens and how much his, Boris's and Nigel farages families have squirrelled away in them. Happy reading

In the news today, a car drove into a crowd in Berlin. Driver is apparently of Armenian heritage. 1 dead and several critically injured.

www.dw.com...

But wait, there's more!

A mob of an estimated two thousand or so young men, mostly from migrant backgrounds according to reports, terrorised towns along with Lake Garda in northern Italy, with reports of women being sexually assaulted, shop windows smashed and police attacked.

Another source on this.

Might be a hot summer on the continent.

Cheers

originally posted by: ROUPracticaldiplomacy
a reply to: LABTECH767

It's not a separate country. It's an atominus region and that's not that rare, Jakarta is the same, and so are Jersey and Greenland to name a few. What's unique about London is how old it is, 1075, and that's it's run by a company. Oh, and it didn't take a huge hit from Brexit as it was the reason for Brexit. Look up when it became illegal for an EU member state to operate a tax haven, then check out how many of the world's tax havens are Brit territories and finally have a look to see David Cameroon's father's role in the creation of these havens and how much his, Boris's and Nigel farages families have squirrelled away in them. Happy reading

Well you certainly know the subject of the square mile better than I do, it does though have about as much autonomy as far as business is concerned as a separate country does.

If I recall however it is not the only location within the UK and there was a village somewhere I think in Lancashire but I may be wrong were a King gave the people of the village Tax Exemption so they never had to pay taxes, Not sure how that holds up today with council tax etc but it was some kind of well kept secret and if I recall it was something to do with a very tall man regarded as a Giant whom had lived in the village at the time and impressed the king.

There is also an Island I think just off shore but it is NOT part of the United kingdom because the tide was in when the William's men came to do the census for the Doomsday Book and so it's people were not recorded though I believe no one lives there today or only one family still does.

And another I think in Cumbria that technically has it's own Monarch but not one founded by blood since the original family died off century's ago and the crown which is made of Iron is owned by the council, there is a put on the island and who ever run's the pub get's to be the king or something daft like that.

Lot's of little quirk's and ancient laws based on rulings of King's whose often fickle nature was interesting and sometimes erratic.

originally posted by: and14263
If you do business in the union it's Brussels. So maybe I should have stated "European Union". Or whatever. But we're pulling hairs. You know what I meant.

Paris is the biggest financial centre in the EU, followed by Frankfurt, then Madrid, then Amsterdam... Yes, splitting hairs. However, I agree with the gist of what you are saying. Was in Paris a couple of months ago and the place is a dump.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Two knife attacks in Germany today.

Esslingen

and

Hamm

Cheers